Dismissal of "Headcase" Players

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Am I the only supporter who is getting tired of hearing the old "Player X is a headcase and therefore we wont be considering him" ?

While I agree with the notion that certain players are damaged good in terms of lifestyle - see Ben Cousins, Daniel Chick, Lawrence Angwin. At the same timem, I don't think it is fair for such 18 year old players such as Collard, Mourish and to an extent Albert Proud to be overlooked by our club on the basis that whilst they have talent - they dont have the maturity or dedication needed to make it as an AFL player.

This to me is very frustrating.

If an 17/18 year old player has the talent - it should be our responsibillity as a club to help that player meet his potential both on and off the field.

There are far too many AFL clubs (ours especially) that are dismissing talented players that would add to our playing list on field (in this case it would be Collard) because at 17/18 they havent got the maturity that's needed off field to play AFL.

anyway .. thats my spiel.

 

[Blue Dawn]

See what you're saying but i think the 'culture' aspect takes priority at moment. Particularly important as we have such a young, impressionable list at present too.

 

[Salaryman]

Am I the only supporter who is getting tired of hearing the old "Player X is a headcase and therefore we wont be considering him" ?

While I agree with the notion that certain players are damaged good in terms of lifestyle - see Ben Cousins, Daniel Chick, Lawrence Angwin. At the same timem, I don't think it is fair for such 18 year old players such as Collard, Mourish and to an extent Albert Proud to be overlooked by our club on the basis that whilst they have talent - they dont have the maturity or dedication needed to make it as an AFL player.

This to me is very frustrating.

If an 17/18 year old player has the talent - it should be our responsibillity as a club to help that player meet his potential both on and off the field.

There are far too many AFL clubs (ours especially) that are dismissing talented players that would add to our playing list on field (in this case it would be Collard) because at 17/18 they havent got the maturity that's needed off field to play AFL.

anyway .. thats my spiel.

And where is Collard now?? How many games did Farmer play this year? Were you one of the posters calling to trade Fev?? Prefer Jetta to Grigg?? Then compare them to Gibbs, Murph Hampson and Grigga.......How much flowering evidence do you want??

 

[AD03]

HERE HERE!!!!!

I agree 100% as I tried to put across in my thread regarding Collard!

 

[one_twelve112]

Carlton is a football club, not; psychiatric ward, life class, relationship counselling retreat, drug rehad clinic etc....

If they're not alright in the head, I don't want them anywhere near the club.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

And where is Collard now?? How many games did Farmer play this year? Were you one of the posters calling to trade Fev?? Prefer Jetta to Grigg?? Then compare them to Gibbs, Murph Hampson and Grigga.......How much flowering evidence do you want??

Huh ?

Freo can afford to dismiss Farmer.

I don't beleive we are in a position to be overlooking YOUNG talent because at 17 they your average teengers who dont have maturity ..... yet.

Some players mature later than others - should we burn them at the stake at 17 ???

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Carlton is a football club, not; psychiatric ward, life class, relationship counselling retreat, drug rehad clinic etc....

If they're not alright in the head, I don't want them anywhere near the club.

You're right.

Therefore if you can play footy - and you can add to our on field performance and potency you should be welcome.

Especially if you are 17/18 - not be shunned because you mature later than others..

 

[Salaryman]

Huh ?

Freo can afford to dismiss Farmer.

I don't beleive we are in a position to be overlooking YOUNG talent because at 17 they your average teengers who dont have maturity ..... yet.

Some players mature later than others - should we burn them at the stake at 17 ???

My point is, while you can work on attitude and attitude to a degree, some of these kids flaws are deeply characterlogical which requires years of therapy to address....trust me I know (from second hand experience not first ). In the cut and thrust of AFL footballers, there are so few spots on an AFL list and a number of kids willing to work their butts off to make it.....WH and SR and SI used to work at Freo, WH and SR still have ties with Phil Smart, i'm sure we ave done due dilligence on this one.

 

[one_twelve112]

You're right.

Therefore if you can play footy - and you can add to our on field performance and potency you should be welcome.

Especially if you are 17/18 - not be shunned because you mature later than others..

That is a dangerous assumption. Would you think Angwin has matured yet and should we have put up with him till he did? I remeber watching him in a pre-season game against the Kangas or Geelong??? and the guy must've taken 20 contested marks, he had more talent in his little finger than 95% of the players going around...we know how his story ended and he took somone else down with him. The Weagles/Cousins saga has illustrated to me how one players basket case behaviour can damage the brand of a football club. Not interested thanks.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Brent Crosswell board.

 

[Alpha1]

That is a dangerous assumption. Would you think Angwin has matured yet and should we have put up with him till he did? I remeber watching him in a pre-season game against the Kangas or Geelong??? and the guy must've taken 20 contested marks, he had more talent in his little finger than 95% of the players going around...we know how his story ended and he took somone else down with him. The Weagles/Cousins saga has illustrated to me how one players basket case behaviour can damage the brand of a football club. Not interested thanks.

Lets take a chance on this kid he has talent to burn give him a 1 year deal with strict conditions, no one is suggesting we baby sit him, we have some quality and mature kids at Carlton maybe being in this envoriment will help him.

 

[parrot]

Am I the only supporter who is getting tired of hearing the old "Player X is a headcase and therefore we wont be considering him" ?

While I agree with the notion that certain players are damaged good in terms of lifestyle - see Ben Cousins, Daniel Chick, Lawrence Angwin. At the same timem, I don't think it is fair for such 18 year old players such as Collard, Mourish and to an extent Albert Proud to be overlooked by our club on the basis that whilst they have talent - they dont have the maturity or dedication needed to make it as an AFL player.

This to me is very frustrating.

If an 17/18 year old player has the talent - it should be our responsibillity as a club to help that player meet his potential both on and off the field.

There are far too many AFL clubs (ours especially) that are dismissing talented players that would add to our playing list on field (in this case it would be Collard) because at 17/18 they havent got the maturity that's needed off field to play AFL.

anyway .. thats my spiel.

I largely agree. I think we should be willing to give a young players a second chance. Not the older players like Cousins though - they just won't change.

 

[BlueBelle]

Am I the only supporter who is getting tired of hearing the old "Player X is a headcase and therefore we wont be considering him" ?

While I agree with the notion that certain players are damaged good in terms of lifestyle - see Ben Cousins, Daniel Chick, Lawrence Angwin. At the same timem, I don't think it is fair for such 18 year old players such as Collard, Mourish and to an extent Albert Proud to be overlooked by our club on the basis that whilst they have talent - they dont have the maturity or dedication needed to make it as an AFL player.

This to me is very frustrating.

If an 17/18 year old player has the talent - it should be our responsibillity as a club to help that player meet his potential both on and off the field.

There are far too many AFL clubs (ours especially) that are dismissing talented players that would add to our playing list on field (in this case it would be Collard) because at 17/18 they havent got the maturity that's needed off field to play AFL.

anyway .. thats my spiel.

I agree C4

 

[Blue Dimension]

Well said C4 couldn't agree more.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Thanks for the support gang.

I guess my main point is:

A talented AFL player should not have his playing future compromised on the basis of a mistake he makes at 17/18 years of age.

 

[Faz 2000]

I guess it has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, but a modestly talented footballer with his heart and head in the right place is often muuuuuch more valuable than a freakish talent who is a space cadet. I think a team can only carry a few wayward souls, and even then only if the rest of the group is strong enough to stay on course.

With the core of our team so very young and NOT used to success, I think we need to shield them a little from "bad sorts", and show them what it takes to succeed. Reason 1078 why Chris Judd signing is great, and why Lance needed to go.

THIS is how you do it kids. THIS is not.

 

[Salaryman]

I agree C4

No surprise there So you'd welcome Didak and Cousins with open arms?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

No surprise there So you'd welcome Didak and Cousins with open arms?

last time I checked - Didak and Cousins weren't 17/18 years old

My point is re: Youngsters who have made mistakes.

 

[BlueYoss]

My point is re: Youngsters who have made mistakes.

Are you trying to slowly break it to us that you've made some bad mistakes that you're going to want us to forgive you for?

Now I'm listening....

 

[HBF]

I'd certainly be wary of drating someone like a Collard this year. All we have heard is that he is a bit of a headcase, and that would be a bit of a concern considering how young our list is.

Given how many potential footballers are our there, overlooking one that has some issues might be better for the club in the long run.

 

[BlueBelle]

No surprise there So you'd welcome Didak and Cousins with open arms?

Lose the arrogance Gilly and read what is being said

last time I checked - Didak and Cousins weren't 17/18 years old

My point is re: Youngsters who have made mistakes.

Exactly!

 

[HBF]

Lose the arrogance Gilly and read what is being said

Exactly!

I'm going to have to back Gilly up here BG.
Given what I have read on other boards here, we're better to stay away from him.

As for other kids, we're better to treat them on a case by case situation. Guys like Albert Proud, who let himself go a bit after DC last year, might just need to get into a professional AFL club to get him back on track with his fitness.

 

[Dramoth]

Thanks for the support gang.

I guess my main point is:

A talented AFL player should not have his playing future compromised on the basis of a mistake he makes at 17/18 years of age.

If they are still making the same mistakes at 24 or 29 then they are definitely flawed and need some serious help. But that statement is basically true.

What I hate is the fact that the AF Lis so willing to continue to pay for Cousins rehab when he gets to the US and is treated like a visiting rockstar.

 

[BlueBelle]

I'm going to have to back Gilly up here BG.
Given what I have read on other boards here, we're better to stay away from him.

As for other kids, we're better to treat them on a case by case situation. Guys like Albert Proud, who let himself go a bit after DC last year, might just need to get into a professional AFL club to get him back on track with his fitness.

Where did I say that we should draft Collard?

Kids in general with the potential to play good footy, who are 17/18 years old, should not be disregarded because they have stuffed up once or twice.

How many 17/18 year old boys do you know that have the maturity of a Murphy or Gibbs? Boys will be boys...

As you said HBF, assess them on a case by case situation.... but not once did I say we should look at Cousins, Didak or Collard for that matter.

 

[HBF]

Where did I say that we should draft Collard?

Kids in general with the potential to play good footy, who are 17/18 years old, should not be disregarded because they have stuffed up once or twice.

How many 17/18 year old boys do you know that have the maturity of a Murphy or Gibbs? Boys will be boys...

As you said HBF, assess them on a case by case situation.... but not once did I say we should look at Cousins, Didak or Collard for that matter.

These are generally the types that slip, and slip for good reason. Anyone who has a chance a chance to play football at the highest level, and can't get their act together to give them their best possible chance, has got to have some queries over them.

If it came down to a choice between the "headcase" and the "non-headcase", I know which one I would go with. Furthermore, why do you think clubs do psych tests at DC?