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Environment DMT

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benneth said:
I can see why smokers get so pissed off, they have to pay such huge taxes on smoking (60%) and cop sh*t by all and sundry because their legal habit is a drain on the health care system.
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When it comes to bitching about tobacco excise, they're not victims, they're volunteers. Really easy to fix.
 
Smoking actually saves the economy money if you factor in people dying early and not draining social services whilst in their least productive years (i.e. not paying any taxes).

Not only that, everyone eventually gets sick and dies - barring an accident - so its not like healthy people wont ever cost the state money in hospital bills, its just that smokers will do it earlier.
 
Hot Pocket said:
Smoking actually saves the economy money if you factor in people dying early and not draining social services whilst in their least productive years (i.e. not paying any taxes).
.
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You make it sound as if smoking kills people off quickly. Do you know anyone with emphysema? What about gangrene? heart disease? throat or lung cancer?

Quite expensive and debilitating conditions. some people are constantly receiving treatment for smoking related problems fior decades. When i smoked i constantly got the cold and flu. never have once since I quit 5 years ago.


http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...Jjrwawkklrliw0OYF7YmErg&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aGc
 
Messenger said:
When it comes to bitching about tobacco excise, they're not victims, they're volunteers. Really easy to fix.
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I wasn't talking about the excise itself. There are plenty of reasonable people who smoke, realise it's a bad habit and pay the excise without complaint.

But how can someone have a go at a smoker for being a drain on the health care system when:

A) It's unknown whether they actually are a drain on the system. There's plenty of data suggesting the dent is not nearly as bad as it's made out to be. This takes into account tangibles and intangibles. If the intangibles are taken out, it's not even close.

B) The government does not put all the excise back into healthcare. (Fact)
 

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benneth said:
I wasn't talking about the excise itself. There are plenty of reasonable people who smoke, realise it's a bad habit and pay the excise without complaint.

But how can someone have a go at a smoker for being a drain on the health care system when:

A) It's unknown whether they actually are a drain on the system. There's plenty of data suggesting the dent is not nearly as bad as it's made out to be. This takes into account tangibles and intangibles. If the intangibles are taken out, it's not even close.

B) The government does not put all the excise back into healthcare. (Fact)
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A. Really? The most recent govt estimate of smoking costs is $31.5b. With 30% of the 125,000 cancers diagnosed each year smoking related.

http://www.news.com.au/national/tob...s-at-excise-rise/story-fnho52ip-1226688800585

B. So what? The idea behind the tax is also to reduce demand through pricing.
 
A. The report that figure comes from is widely disputed.

B. I agree, but you have taken my comment out of context. I was referring specifically to the misguided contempt towards smokers based on them being a drain on the health care system.

This isnt going anywhere, maybe we should agree to disagree?
 
benneth said:
A. The report that figure comes from is widely disputed.

B. I agree, but you have taken my comment out of context. I was referring specifically to the misguided contempt towards smokers based on them being a drain on the health care system.

This isnt going anywhere, maybe we should agree to disagree?
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Yes, let's agree to disagree. My last point on this is that I've seen the pointy end of it. Cardiac problems, cancer, venous issues. I wouldn't have gone a day in clinical practice when I didn't care for a patient with a smoking related or complicated issue.

Knowing what we know now about the effects and ramifications of smoking you'd be a ****ing moron to take it up now.
 
Nicotine addiction is far worse than any other. If you banned smoking or raised the prices dramatically in one foul swoop, it would be kaotic to the system. the effects of millions trying to quit at the same time would not discriminate. Every service provider would be inundated with people in withdrawal. Millions of crazed addicts would not be pretty or safe.

All a responsible administration can do is slowly raise the price, every price rise removes a few, every price rise makes the rest think. limits the damage. Gov does want to ban nicotine, just can't do it, yet.
 

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Messenger said:
Yes, let's agree to disagree. My last point on this is that I've seen the pointy end of it. Cardiac problems, cancer, venous issues. I wouldn't have gone a day in clinical practice when I didn't care for a patient with a smoking related or complicated issue.

Knowing what we know now about the effects and ramifications of smoking you'd be a ******* moron to take it up now.
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Agreed, it's an insidious habit and the uptake will never been stomped out until cigarettes are taken off the market.

So what do you do for a living? Nurse?
 
little graham said:
Quack told me that to many CT scans cause cancer or at the very least bring on cancers earlier had you not had a CT. Do you concur?
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That's an over simplification. Studies have recently demonstrated an statistical excess of cancers in cohorts of people that had CT scans as children.

We're required to check our dosimetry against national reference levels and justify every procedure for clinical need. Medicare have also introduced a set of item number for MRI aimed at children under 16 and for a number of the most common adult presentations.

No single examination is unsafe in and of itself but radiation dose is cumulative.
 

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Messenger said:
That's an over simplification. Studies have recently demonstrated an statistical excess of cancers in cohorts of people that had CT scans as children.

We're required to check our dosimetry against national reference levels and justify every procedure for clinical need. Medicare have also introduced a set of item number for MRI aimed at children under 16 and for a number of the most common adult presentations.

No single examination is unsafe in and of itself but radiation dose is cumulative.
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Thank you and well played.:D
 
nicky said:
Messenger always tries to fk up my threads. He hates me!

Anyway back to dmt, sweet sweet universe explaining dmt.
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Cut the tension with a knife ITT.
 

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