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Do we go tall in this draft?
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- Sep 25, 2005
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vinnie_vegas69 said:
no question it has a bit of the Billy M about it but the quality big blokes will be gone by the time 28 comes around. Maybe you take one at 8 or 10 (def not both) and be assured a mid like Moss, Boak, Bats will still be there at 28?????
Whats against Tippett is that he is in the older part of the bracket and plays in a comp that is always hard to get a formline on..........little bit like winning the McKinnon Stakes.....
I believe that if Selwood, Proud are gone by 8 you think about Hislop, let Saints go Reiwoldt and then think long and hard about a quality tall like Tippett/Sellar or go for a Collard. Personally, think it would be our worst nightmare. We want Selwood or Proud at 8 and then Hislop at 10 me thinks!
Nirvana is Selwood at 8 and then Proud at 10.
As far as I can tell - North and Hawks are the problems. We need them to go tall. If they do, think we get the boys we want at 8 and 10.
bobby_diggy
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Snoop Dog said:
I want us to get the midfielders we need as well, but I don't think it is all doom and gloom. If Selwood or Proud are taken before we get a chance it means that some of the other top rated players have slipped to us.
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The problem with that is that the gap in talent between a midfielder like not even Selwood or Proud, but even Armitage or Hislop and guys like Moss, Boak and Batsanis is much, much greater than the gap between Tippett and the KPs that are more likely to be available at #28, like Mitch Brown or Tom Collier.Snoop Dog said:
In fact, Tippett himself is a chance to be available at pick #28, and I think most people would consider that to be a bit of a stretch. I just wouldn't want to see us take him over much more talented, experienced, and younger talls like Jack Riewoldt, Nathan Brown or Eric Mackenzie.
But realistically, this draft has more depth in talls and utilities than it does in true midfielders. Essentially, I see the Top 10 midfielders in the draft going inside the top 20, but then between 20 and 35 seeing utilities/flankers, KPs and rucks being drafted, because that's where the depth of talent lies.
Indeed, you probably would, and you'd consider Armitage, Jetta and Collard as well, but in the end, I think you'd have to go for the tall that's fallen through, be it Sellar, Thorp or Leuenberger.Snoop Dog said:
Saints won't draft Riewoldt. They will almost definitely go for a midfielder. Despite their cream at the top, their midfield has almost as many holes as ours. As good as they are, Dal Santo and Ball are only two guys. They need depth badly, so a midfielder is about as strong a lock as you can get for a team to draft in the first round.Snoop Dog said:
See, I wouldn't even come close to mentioning Tippett and Sellar in the same breath. There is a wide gap in their quality as prospects, IMO. I don't believe it would just be a matter of preference - I think if you drafted Tippett over Sellar, it would be a very, very strange move.Snoop Dog said:
It's possible, and again, I really urge you to start considering Armitage, especially since reasonably solid word says that Collingwood really is.Snoop Dog said:
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FFS that midfield is very sub standard. Compare it to the teams at the top of the ladder not those at the bottom. Even on an optimistic assessment it is reliant on development of unproven midfielders. That lot has 1 midfielder who has had more than 1 good year as a part time midfielder. If they all reach their potential – which is almost unheard of at AFL level – that midfield will still be middle of the road AT BEST. Be realistic!inside_player said:
MarkT said:
I think Swan, H Shaw, Pendlebury, Thomas, and Holland is the nucleus of a reasonable midfield. Sure, it's not top-notch, it's a work in progress, but it has potential. Our current midfield is poor. But I think there'll be natural improvement as our youngsters come through.
As for the draft, best available, best available, best available. We have two picks in the top 10 in a strong draft. This is a rare opportunity to rejuvenate our list. Let's not get too smart trying to target specific types. Let's just maximise our chances of getting quality by drafting the kid we think is best -- whether that kid is a key-position player, a ruckman, a mid, or whatever.
The midfield still needs some surgery, but so do other parts of our list. So let's just get the best available. [Sorry for repeating myself, but I think sometimes it needs repeating.]
Can I qualify this by saying recent evidence suggests that in the absence of standout competition you can win a flag with an average spine if you have close to the best ruck and midfield combination ever assembled. You still need a good overall list. The midfield WCE have though is a major asset given it’s great quality.Bay Pie said:
Maybe and I hope so but it is reliant on development and two of them have played less 1 full season. It’s a game of relativities. They might develop as we hope and be as good as the ones from other clubs who have equal development hopes but start with better upper ends to their midfield. The chance of any of our current list being good enough to be able to say they would be in WCE’s top 3 midfielders is remote. That puts where we are with our midfield in perspective IMO. We need a significant boost to the midfield. Realistically w won’t to WCE standards. We also need to have a better spine and better balanced list if we are beat them. It isn’t possible to get there in 1 year either.Palmer Stoat said:
Hard to argue with that.Palmer Stoat said:
IMO the midfield is terminal and the rest we can get by on for some to come yet. For that reason I’d prefer quality mids if they are available. When in doubt go for the mid. I usually favour the KPP because they are harder to find and easier to trade out but our list is bereft of top end midfield talent.Palmer Stoat said:
MarkT said:
This is true. I'm more optimistic about our midfield because from what I've seen I extrapolate a pretty good future for the likes of Thomas, Pendlebury, and H Shaw in the middle. (I don't see how you can avoid doing some extrapolating when you're heading into a draft with only a finite number of picks at hand.)
As you say, setting the bar at WCE's midfield trio of Judd, Cousins, and Kerr is pretty ambitious. That may be the best midfield trio in, well... a long, long, long time. Fact is, while WCE are the premier, and therefore in many respects the yardstick, you don't necessarily have to match their midfield to beat them. They have their own list and best-22 deficiencies, which the Swans -- a team with far less midfield quality, but with high-quality forwards -- have been able to exploit over the last two years.
What I'm saying is that I think you can look at the midfield riches of WCE and become a too focussed on bolstering our midfield at the expense of our other deficiencies. After all, who's to say that a gun KPP isn't going to more capable of allowing us to match it with the likes of WCE than a mid, anyway? It may be more productive to exploit their weaknesses than to try and match their strengths.
croation-sensation
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It would be awesoem to get Selwood and Proud i want L-Burger to slip to 8 i know he wont but hey i can dream.
he's be great partnered with Fraser in years to come
he's be great partnered with Fraser in years to come
Should also remember we will be picking up Scott Reed at the end of next season, whom will likely be a KPP and could quite possibly be a top 10 pick in the draft. With that in mind we will definately be picking mids with our first few picks unless one of the big 5 talls drop to our pick. Leunberger and Sellar only two real possibilities I would think. Otherwise I think it may be mids with our first three picks.
bobby_diggy
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DarrenM said:
I have never seen him play but from what I have read on the drafts forum he sounds like he will be a gun. I wouldn't be calling Holland an in & under mid, and Burns will probably retire after next season.
I really doubt that Selwood will fall to us, but my fingers are crossed.
He is better than M.Murphy (he was his captain in their team as a younger player) & Murphy killed it this season before doing his shoulder.
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A) He'll be a rookie listed player.Dundalis said:
B) We have no way of knowing whether or not he's the kind of talent that could even approach the Top 10 of the draft. That comment is ludicrously premature.
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You haven't been keeping track, have you?DarrenM said:
Burns is about to retire, O'Bree isn't much younger, and Holland isn't a pure inside mid.
Ben Johnson, Dane Swan, Alan Didak, Heath Shaw, Rhyce Shaw, Chris Egan, Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury and Sam Iles are all likely to be rotating through our midfield, and they are all outside ball carriers.
None of our decent young mids are inside - That's why we need a Selwood.
vinnie_vegas69 said:
Which makes you wonder why our only genuine young inside player, Iaccabucci, wasnt given another year to establish himself.
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croation-sensation said:
I have watched Selwood in the games he has played, he no doubt has great potential however I beleive he is not fast enough for what Collingwood need in their midfield. He is not that quick.
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Because he sucks and won't make it as an inside mid at AFL level.Timmy from Thomastown said:
We need a big ruckman and a key defender too - It doesn't mean that We should keep David Fanning and Brent Hall.
Type and age are just two categories of evaluating a player. Quality is yet another.
If we will still have some good KPP for a few years yet, then why do we need to draft them now? Why not next year? From what I have heard about Reed which isn't much he sounds like one of the better kids running around in the country for his age. Whatever the case, midfield is surely our first priority, so we should look at rectifying that first. Plus midfielders genuinely are quicker to get involved in the seniors sooner than KPP's/Ruckman.
We should only get a KPP or Ruckman if one of the top 5 big men in the draft are available. Even then I'm kinda worried about us picking Sellar. Do you just pick him because he is talented, despite possibly not having a position in the AFL? Do we want someone who is a pinch hitting ruckman and KPP? We'd have to seriously look at getting two mids I think even if Sellar is there.
We should only get a KPP or Ruckman if one of the top 5 big men in the draft are available. Even then I'm kinda worried about us picking Sellar. Do you just pick him because he is talented, despite possibly not having a position in the AFL? Do we want someone who is a pinch hitting ruckman and KPP? We'd have to seriously look at getting two mids I think even if Sellar is there.
vinnie_vegas69, I know it is very speculative at this stage, and will be until the draft is over, but what do you think the chances of Riewoldt falling to #14 are?
I'd be stoked to pick him up.
I'd be stoked to pick him up.
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Unlikely - I'd doubt he'll fall past Western, Melbourne and Richmond with the three proceeding picks.McLeod23 said:
macca69 said:wouldn't surprise me if he slid to #14 and slid some more
Why do you say that macca69?
Do you simply not rate him as a first round pick?
Or do you just want him to fall to #16?