Do we need an insurance ruckman?

[parrot]

Definitely not. We had too many rucks on our list, and have now trimmed that back to an optimal number i.e. 3. We offloaded the least versatile, least athletic of the rucks to a grateful weak regional club who didn't have any rucks. Now we can focus on developing the 3 quality rucks we have. These are the best of the bunch. All fantastic athletes with bucketloads of talent and versatility.

 

[Jeremias]

As a follow up from my discussion with Sin City in this thread, it is interesting to see what the clubs plans are with regards to Kreuzer upon his return.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/new-rules-help-carltons-matthew-kreuzer-in-comeback-from-knee-injury/story-e6frf9jf-1225947435071

The club believes the new interchange rules, combined with Kreuzer's amazing second-effort stoppages work, will see him pinch-hitting as a genuine midfielder at times next year.

It will also allow him to find his confidence away from the bash and crash that ruckwork demands.

That quote is pretty much exactly in line with my assertion that Kreuz should spend timen away from the ruck initially, because knocking knees with man mountains in a ruck contest isn't exactly ideal for someone on their way back from a knee reco.

Seems as though I'm not the only one that thinks he should, and probably will, be eased back into the swing of things by playing in positions other than the ruck, at least initially.

 

[Sin City]

As a follow up from my discussion with Sin City in this thread, it is interesting to see what the clubs plans are with regards to Kreuzer upon his return.
That quote is pretty much exactly in line with my assertion that Kreuz should spend timen away from the ruck initially, because knocking knees with man mountains in a ruck contest isn't exactly ideal for someone on their way back from a knee reco.

Seems as though I'm not the only one that thinks he should, and probably will, be eased back into the swing of things by playing in positions other than the ruck, at least initially.

Funny how the HUN - as credible as they are - only have this quote from someone at the club hey.

Carlton chief executive Greg Swann said Kreuzer was progressing well.

"He's going well. He's back running and he reckons he should be right for the first game," he said.

 

[Jeremias]

Oh yes, that's right...I forgot.

Nothing in the media could possibly be true.

 

[Sin City]

Oh yes, that's right...I forgot.

Nothing in the media could possibly be true.

Well where is any quote from the club at all saying they're even considering playing him as a midfielder or that he can't play ruck early on? There isn't one. Yes you're not the only one who thinks that, there would be plenty, including John Ralph. But I don't believe it for a second and I've given you plenty of good reasons as to why.

 

[BlueTongue]

This is a good question. We definitely are more 'vulnerable' without Jacobs now. Supposing Kreuzer had an injury/recovery setback then I don't think Hampson could hold down No.2 Ruck duties the entire year. Well he could but based on previous form it would be a volatile scenario.

The answer would be a KPP/Part Time Ruckman IMHO. Jackson Trengove would have been perfect this.

Either way, we'd best be recruiting the next big man this draft because it'll take a few years and who knows if Hammer can cut it in the meantime.

 

[Fluro Boots]

Hi, outsiders view cut me some slack.

personally if i was a carlton supporter i would've preferred to keep jacobs and trade hampson, i know contracts and other circumstances intervene i just thought jacobs had shown he is what he is and does it pretty well and you know what you have.

hampson is an exciting prospect, he just takes me as a guy who will always remain just that though. again no evidence just my take on him.

kreuzer is obviously an afl standard player straight up, 2011 he may be a bit below his best coming off a knee but i'll back him in if he stays healthy.

warnock looks good, probably a bit similar in style of ruckman to jacobs, i wouldn't want them playing as a ruck duo hence jacobs move makes even more sense.

i'm not sure what ruck talent you have coming through atm. 5 or 6 ruckman seemed to be the norm and with the new sub rule 5 seems about right. kreuzer, warnock, hampson and probably 1 you have i don't know about. Taking a punt late in the draft is probably a reasonable idea, there will be mature ruckman available, taylor and skipper just from hawthorn, youth will be the way to go for carlton though.

 

[mediumsizered]

personally if i was a carlton supporter i would've preferred to keep jacobs and trade hampson, i know contracts and other circumstances intervene i just thought jacobs had shown he is what he is and does it pretty well and you know what you have.

We all wanted to keep Jacobs, as did the club, but the reality was he wanted to go back home to SA & the Crows were able to promise him more game time than we could at Carlton, with Warnock & Kreuzer to be our #1 & #2 rucks for several years to come.

If a kid wants to go home & he gets a healthy offer from another club, you can't stand in his way. That is the reality of the Sam Jacobs trade.

 

[Jeremias]

Well where is any quote from the club at all saying they're even considering playing him as a midfielder or that he can't play ruck early on? There isn't one. Yes you're not the only one who thinks that, there would be plenty, including John Ralph. But I don't believe it for a second and I've given you plenty of good reasons as to why.

Do you believe that Thornton and O'hAilpin want out?

 

[Sin City]

Do you believe that Thornton and O'hAilpin want out?

Firstly, this has nothing to do with the thread, I actually thought you would be able to discuss things in a more mature matter which I was I chose to discuss it with you, turns out I was well wrong.

There has been enough credible info from people at the club to make me believe that Thornton wanted out and although I think he was kidding himself it seems like O'hAilpin was keen to try his luck somewhere else too. Quotes from Swann, Icke, Ratten as well as posters like BIB and ericpascoe are a lot different to some November puff piece that was probably inspired by this very thread without a single relevant quote from anyone at the club.

Given that you thought that article proved that people agreed with you, have a look how it's been received in it's own thread.

 

[Jeremias]

Firstly, this has nothing to do with the thread, I actually thought you would be able to discuss things in a more mature matter which I was I chose to discuss it with you, turns out I was well wrong.

There has been enough credible info from people at the club to make me believe that Thornton wanted out and although I think he was kidding himself it seems like O'hAilpin was keen to try his luck somewhere else too. Quotes from Swann, Icke, Ratten as well as posters like BIB and ericpascoe are a lot different to some November puff piece that was probably inspired by this very thread without a single relevant quote from anyone at the club.

Given that you thought that article proved that people agreed with you, have a look how it's been received in it's own thread.

I'm more than able to discuss things in a mature manner.

I just find it amusing that you believe some things that are published in articles, yet are so quick to dismiss others - even if both have very few direct quotes from the person in question, or the club.

Save your insults for someone else. Not going to even bother with them.

Midfield is a poor example by the journalist, but it does show that it's not as far fetched an idea to suggest that Kreuzer may return playing more in other positions than he has in the past, and less in the ruck initially, than you may think and suggest.

 

[Sin City]

I just find it amusing that you believe some things that are published in articles, yet are so quick to dismiss others - even if both have very few direct quotes from the person in question, or the club.

It depends on what the quotes are doesn't it. As I said there is nothing in that article from the club that says he may play midfield, only a quote from Swann saying he's running and hopes to play at the start of the season. It's a lot different to when Ratten, Swann, Icke or even our own BIB or EP specifically state something. I'm sure you can see that for yourself.

Save your insults for someone else. Not going to even bother with them.

Mate there definitely wasn't any insults in there and I certainly didn't intentionally. I've been reading these comments about Kreuzer not being able to play ruck when he comes back for months and I reckon they uninformed and incorrect but I chose to go in to debate with you about it because I generally like the way you discuss things. No need for any petty point scoring, no Collingwood supporters among us, just keep it on topic.

Midfield is a poor example by the journalist, but it does show that it's not as far fetched an idea to suggest that Kreuzer may return playing more in other positions than he has in the past, and less in the ruck initially, than you may think and suggest.

I really don't think the article proves anything at all other than Ralph is trying to fill up some space, particularly as he couldn't get any quotes from the club apart from that Kreuzer is running and hopes to play from the start of the season.

 

[Jeremias]

Who said anything about Kreuz not being able to play ruck when he comes back for months?



Certainly not me.

 

[Sin City]

Who said anything about Kreuz not being able to play ruck when he comes back for months?



Certainly not me.

No, I meant I've been reading it for months

 

[Jeremias]

No, I meant I've been reading it for months

Oh

But still, where have you been reading that?

I'd be more inclined to think people are saying and writing that perhaps he shouldn't play ruck from the get-go - rather than him not being able to.

At least, that's the angle that I have been taking.

 

[Sin City]

I'd be more inclined to think people are saying and writing that perhaps he shouldn't play ruck from the get-go - rather than him not being able to

Pretty much the same thing. Saying he should play forward instead of ruck when he comes back. I don't buy it because you can do a knee in any spot on the ground. The twisting, running, tackling is the same in both positions and I don't see how competing in pack marking contests not knowing how you will land is any easier than going up against one ruckman in a contest and having a fair idea where you'll land. I think once his knee and fitness are right to play football again he'll play ruck.

 

[Jeremias]

It's not the same thing at all.

I have no doubt whatsoever that when he gets back, he COULD play in the ruck.

Whether or not he SHOULD is a completely different issue.

Anyway, we're going round and round in circles, which I can't really be bothered doing.

Let's just wait and see.

 

[Kramer1]

Honestly guys take it the carpark, or the futile pissing contest thread.

 

[Sin City]

I have no doubt whatsoever that when he gets back, he COULD play in the ruck.

Whether or not he SHOULD is a completely different issue.

In that case then yes he should play ruck when he's right to play AFL again. As good as Warnock is Kreuzer is our number one ruck by a long way.

In the forward line we have Henderson and Waite, hopefully Walker will be down there and maybe even Jack Anthony. On top of Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Robinson, Houlihan, Collins and whoever else will spend time down there. Apart from the odd spell down there I don't really think Kreuzer will be a forward.

 

[The Toad]

I reckon I should play in the ruck untill he gets back on his feet.

 

[ianh]

I reckon I should play in the ruck untill he gets back on his feet.

I reckon we should wait till he's back on his feet before we play him ruck - or at all