Society/Culture Do you belive in Non Binary as a gender?

[foxdog50]

After Darcy Vescio coming out as she is Non Binary, just putting the question out there, do you believe in people being Non Binary
Yes , you can be not a male or a female

No, your either a Man or a Women

 

[Todman]

It's a league for women, so logically Darcy doesn't play.

 

[Chief]

It's a league for women, so logically Darcy doesn't play.

If you don't understand it, best listen rather than speak.

Thanks.

 

[Pessimistic]

Anyone who defines themselves as non binary can dictate the circumstances ad nauseous, and reject binary people having a say.

pity the opposite isn’t the case. JKR has a massive point

 

[Chief]

reject binary people having a say.

Having a say in what?

What was Rowling's point?

 

[Pessimistic]

Having a say in what?

What was Rowling's point?

that while transsexuals should be respected, they are not women. She’s been excluded from Harry Potter reunions cos non binary knickers are ina twist

 

[Chief]

that while transsexuals should be respected, they are not women. She’s been excluded from Harry Potter reunions cos non binary knickers are ina twist

So... what?

 

[Pessimistic]

So... what?

short answer to the title. Yes, but they don’t get to dictate what binary people are or arent

 

[Chief]

When have "they" done that?

 

[Malifice]

It's a league for women, so logically Darcy doesn't play.

Dont be obtuse. You're not stupid enough to think that the comp is split between male and female due to gender identity (as opposed to because of biological sex) do you?

It's shithouse discussion to be deliberately obtuse, and we expect better.

 

[Malifice]

After Darcy Vescio coming out as she is Non Binary, just putting the question out there, do you believe in people being Non Binary
Yes , you can be not a male or a female

No, your either a Man or a Women

You need to be clearer here.

Gender is different to biological sex. The former is socially constructed, and subjective. The latter is an objective biological reality.

You can assume, and be accepted as a different gender to your biological sex, or even assume and be accepted as no gender at all. There are literally tens of millions of people in the world who are (and do) just that, plus several entire cultures (South American, Thailand, PnG etc) that have multiple gender roles that exist within them other than just 'male' and 'female'.

So the answer to can you have a non binary identity in the 'gender' category is clearly 'Yes'.

As for biological sex, that's largely fixed at birth (or more truthfully, at conception). You can get surgery to more closely resemble your gender identity, but it doesn't change the biological reality in the slightest.

That said, there are biologically speaking, more than just the two sexes. There exist a sizeable number of biologically intersex people who display (for example) male and female physical traits. So again, even from a strictly biological position (leaving identity to one side) the answer is also 'Yes' if you want to just narrow the question down to biology.

 

[Marcel Proust]

If you don't understand it, best listen rather than speak.

Thanks.

Would you allow men that identify as women to play?

Might be an OH&S issue no?

What about boxing?

 

[Chief]

Would you allow men that identify as women to play?

Might be an OH&S issue no?

Again, your question shows you don't understand.

 

[Present Not Past]

Mike Tyson says that if sport was segregated he would not have been as successful as he was. Some white guy would have won all his title fights.

 

[Chief]

What... ? Tyson is trans?

 

[Present Not Past]

What... ? Tyson is trans?

No mate. He’s black. Have a look into the history of black people in America for a reference to people who struggle for equivalence. Hell, look at this country.

 

[Chief]

No mate. He’s black. Have a look into the history of black people in America for a reference to people who struggle for equivalence. Hell, look at this country.

You've lost me on how that relates to the topic. Have I missed something?

 

[foxdog50]

You need to be clearer here.

Gender is different to biological sex. The former is socially constructed, and subjective. The latter is an objective biological reality.

You can assume, and be accepted as a different gender to your biological sex, or even assume and be accepted as no gender at all. There are literally tens of millions of people in the world who are (and do) just that, plus several entire cultures (South American, Thailand, PnG etc) that have multiple gender roles that exist within them other than just 'male' and 'female'.

So the answer to can you have a non binary identity in the 'gender' category is clearly 'Yes'.

As for biological sex, that's largely fixed at birth (or more truthfully, at conception). You can get surgery to more closely resemble your gender identity, but it doesn't change the biological reality in the slightest.

That said, there are biologically speaking, more than just the two sexes. There exist a sizeable number of biologically intersex people who display (for example) male and female physical traits. So again, even from a strictly biological position (leaving identity to one side) the answer is also 'Yes' if you want to just narrow the question down to biology.

I don't have to be clearer... its not rocket science the question

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

of course it is, but only in your imagination. And if it is then being a Jedi is a gender as well. You just have to get your mind around it, thats the criteria isnt it?

 

[Malifice]

I don't have to be clearer... its not rocket science the question

Great input. Rich, and compelling.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Gender is different to biological sex. The former is socially constructed, and subjective. The latter is an objective biological reality.

As for biological sex, that's largely fixed at birth (or more truthfully, at conception). You can get surgery to more closely resemble your gender identity, but it doesn't change the biological reality in the slightest.

This misses a lot of recent postmodernist thinking where science and Western rational thinking are viewed as systems of oppression. Some theorists do not recognise biological sex as objective.

Regardless, there was also a shift in focus from sex to gender. You got this weird phenomenon where because gender has been constructed differently across societies over time then the whole concept of male/female sex differences could be dismissed.

 

[Marcel Proust]

A trend for the down fall of society historically has often been when gender lines getting blurred.

 

[Malifice]

You got this weird phenomenon where because gender has been constructed differently across societies over time then the whole concept of male/female sex differences could be dismissed.

It has been constructed differently over time, and still is.

I was in the San Blas islands recently, and they have three gender identities, with a very distinct and recognized third gender:

In the archipelago of San Blas and in general in the comarca (district) of Kuna Yala, the autonomous territories of the indigenous populations of the Kuna in the Republic of Panama, there is the traditional presence of the Omeggids, as transsexuals are called in the indigenous language and which means "like a woman".
Omeggids are biological males who have relationships with men in the community who usually do typically female jobs, such as weaving and sewing fabrics called Molas.
Having a child Omeggid is a chance for Kuna families.
If a child begins to have female attitudes, he is left free to express his personality and not forced to have typically male behaviors.

Omeggid. San Blas Indigenous Transgenders . Panama by carlo Bevilacqua (visura.co)



Thailand also has a long history with three:

Kathoey or katoey (Thai: กะเทย; RTGS: kathoei Thai pronunciation: [kàtʰɤːj]) is an identity used by some people in Thailand, whose identities in English may be best described as transgender women in some cases, or effeminate gay men in other cases. Transgender women in Thailand mostly use terms other than kathoey when referring to themselves, such as phuying (Thai: ผู้หญิง, 'woman'). A significant number of Thais perceive kathoey as belonging to a separate sex, including some transgender women themselves.[1]

Kathoey - Wikipedia

As for biological sex, there are at least two ethnic groups that have three biological sexes. In the Dominican Republic, and also in PNG, where some girls develop male sexual organs at puberty:

Guevedoces (from Spanish: güevedoces) is a term used in the Dominican Republic for children with a specific type of intersexuality. Guevedoces are classified as girls when they are born due to their physical appearance but, around the age of 12, they start developing male genitalia. This is due to a deficiency in the production of 5α-reductase, an enzyme involved in the metabolism of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.[1][2][3][4][5] The same phenomenon occurs in Papua New Guinea, where it is called kwolu-aatmwol by the Sambia people ('which suggests a person's transformation "into a male thing."'),[6] and in Turkey.[7] Anne Fausto-Sterling states that Guevedoces (as well as people in Papua New Guinea with 5α-reductase deficiency) "are recognised as a third sex" by their cultures, while the cultures "nevertheless recognize only two gender roles."

Guevedoce - Wikipedia

It seems as if their societies recognize them as a distinct 'third' sex, but still require them to adopt one gender role (i.e., they are treated as men when they become male at puberty).

 

[bourbons]

You need to be clearer here.

Gender is different to biological sex. The former is socially constructed, and subjective. The latter is an objective biological reality.

You can assume, and be accepted as a different gender to your biological sex, or even assume and be accepted as no gender at all. There are literally tens of millions of people in the world who are (and do) just that, plus several entire cultures (South American, Thailand, PnG etc) that have multiple gender roles that exist within them other than just 'male' and 'female'.

So the answer to can you have a non binary identity in the 'gender' category is clearly 'Yes'.

As for biological sex, that's largely fixed at birth (or more truthfully, at conception). You can get surgery to more closely resemble your gender identity, but it doesn't change the biological reality in the slightest.

That said, there are biologically speaking, more than just the two sexes. There exist a sizeable number of biologically intersex people who display (for example) male and female physical traits. So again, even from a strictly biological position (leaving identity to one side) the answer is also 'Yes' if you want to just narrow the question down to biology.

Basically this.

There are 2 sexes, but I'll respect any decision people have made, and am happy to address them however they'd prefer. No skin off my nose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Would you allow men that identify as women to play?

No, at least not in pursuits where the usual male biological traits are obviously advantageous over the usual female ones ie. greater speed, strength etc. Basically ones involving any physical activity I guess.

Sucks for them (the people prohibited from engaging in their chosen sport amongst the cohort they identify with) but I don't see any way around it, from a fairness and (as you mentioned) safety point of view.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Gender is different to biological sex. The former is socially constructed, and subjective. The latter is an objective biological reality.

Yep, end thread.

Don't know why this is even a thread, just stupid.

Move on everyone.