Society/Culture Alex Pearce supports Palestine/promotes terrorism depending who you ask

[Johnny Bananas]

What about Israelis in general? The majority are pro what the government is doing, no?

I don't really know what Israeli society is like, so I try not to comment on it. I imagine there are plenty of racists and fascist sympathisers there who think like Ben Gvir and dehumanise Palestinians, but I also imagine there are a lot of people who would prefer to live in peace but don't see that as an option right now. So it's hard to generalise and speak of them collectively. I do wish more Israelis would refuse to serve in the IDF though, as their cruelty is blindingly obvious.

 

[RedOrWhite]

What about Israelis in general? The majority are pro what the government is doing, no?

Approximately 80% of them last time I checked.

 

[Number37]

I don't really know what Israeli society is like, so I try not to comment on it. I imagine there are plenty of racists and fascist sympathisers there who think like Ben Gvir and dehumanise Palestinians, but I also imagine there are a lot of people who would prefer to live in peace but don't see that as an option right now. So it's hard to generalise and speak of them collectively. I do wish more Israelis would refuse to serve in the IDF though, as their cruelty is blindingly obvious.

They're taught to hate Palestinians.
They're taught that Palestinians are sub-human.
They're taught that they are superior, not just to Palestinians, but everybody.
They're taught that Palestinians will wipe them all out, if given the chance.
They're taught that they are entitled to all of Palestine.

Watch the documentary "The Green Line".
Read what people like Gideon Levy or Antony Lowenstein writes.
Listen to what the so called 'extremists' in Israel say. These so called 'extremists' are mainstream in Israel.
What these extremists say is what is happening. It is undeniable.
And yet people still make the argument that they are just a small extremist element.

People gravifitti a billboard with something about Hamas and it is 'support for terrorism'.
The Israeli diaspora sends money to Israel so that settlers can carry out acts of terrorism and not a f'ing word is said.

Imagine if Hamas said the things about Israelis that the Israelis say about the Palestinians.
Imagine the howling at the moon about antisemitism and holocausts. It would be endless.

For some reason Israelis and the supporters of Israel are allowed to say whatever they like, with no consequences.
In this very thread, not long ago, one of the pig of a human Israeli supporters said that if you give Palestinians money they will just buy guns to kill Israelis. Said it like it was nothing. So F'd in the head are supporters of Israel.

 

[ElectricG]

Do you honestly think gang rape doesn't occur in most wars, including in that one? They occur in almost all military occupations of enemy civilian populations, I've read enough military history to know that. Soldiers are conditioned to be desensitised to the human impact of killing their enemies, and any civilians that they see as part of the enemy forces. If you're already dehumanising those people, it's not a big leap from that to rape. This will happen in conflict unless there is strict discipline with credible threats of punishment from the military hierarchy, and even that didn't stop US soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison.

Of course. You have a war and war crimes are inevitable. However this misses a critical difference in how we characterise military organisations. Australian soldiers have committed war crimes. A country like Australia might investigate and prosecute those war crimes committed by its own soldiers. Other, less civilised countries would simply deny that they are occurring, which is lousy but at least in service of the notion that they are a real army with noble objectives. You can’t accuse Hamas of “war crimes” because the things they openly do (like October 7) existed purely to harm civilians.
It’s why kneecap should suffer reputational damage for promoting them. It’s endorsing that atrocities.
And to pre-empt your next point, given what’s going on YES someone who goes on stage and lead a chant for the IDF should, and absolutely would, be condemned.

Ukraine would be better resourced than Hamas. I really don’t see why they couldn’t smuggle a small force across Russian borders to stage a comparable massacre on their civilians.

I said absolutely nothing about antisemitism being justified. Please do me the courtesy of not stuffing words in my mouth, and please do everyone the courtesy of not equating the actions of Israel with all Jews.

In regards to grading peoples differently though, do you think if a Jew hated Germany while Germany was killing Jews, or a Chinese person hated Japan while Japan was occupying China and murdering and raping its people, that should be viewed exactly the same way as, say, a white British Christian person hating Germany or Japan? If not, then you agree that context does matter in how we view the world.

I said justifying their (I.e., Palestine’s and Hamas’s hitlerian rhetoric) hatred of the Jews. You said to not put words in your mouth but then you go on to double down on that exact point in the 2nd paragraph. There was (and continues to be) hatred of Muslims/arabs in the west following 9/11 and other terrorist attacks which have taken place, but I’d hazard a guess that you wouldn’t explain away this hatred in the same way.

Where did I, or anyone else, stop you from saying that the Taliban or Hamas are terrible? I feel like you're complaining about not being able to do something that you're not only allowed to do, but practically everyone would agree with you on.

Come one Johnny. You know I’m not literally saying I’m being censored. My point is it’s not acceptable in this sort of community to say that Hamas is bad. The whole point of this thread is people getting mad about Caro calling out Alex Pearce. There are many people here who would take issue with you calling Hamas monsters. You would have seen them in this thread. I can’t remember who it was but someone was making a particularly sickening comparison to Nelson Mandela and how history will show that they were actually the good guys.

Those groups being bad also doesn't invalidate the points being brought up. The US did strengthen the Taliban enormously. Why do you think people bring it up? Do you think they simply hate the US and consequently like anything or anyone opposed to the US? Or could it be that they're saying that the US and its allies really ought not to strengthen extremists over the more reasonable parties, not only because it makes peace harder to achieve, but also because the same extremists might become a real danger one day? I think it's the latter.

Why do they bring it up? To be a contrarian and a massive campaigner for no reason.

I agree that we need to learn that worldbuilding by arming and financing a group of “freedom fighters” who are actually religious fundamentalists doesn’t help anyone. But if we can’t criticise those groups without the conversation being redirected into another endless discussion about the west’s evil, it is defending those groups. It should not be hard to agree that the taliban is bad.

I also think blaming everything on Hamas misses half the picture. You cannot tell the full story of Hamas without telling the story of how the Israeli state in general and Netanyahu in particular, wanted them to grow bigger and dominate the Palestinian resistance. It proves Netanyahu was never interested in finding a way for both peoples to live in peace and dignity, he just wanted Israel to crush and subjugate Palestinians forever. And undoing the damage he has caused to the peace process is going to take a century.

Nothing to disageee with here really.

Netanyahu and Hamas are both fascist monsters, but Western nations act like only one of them is, and the other is a special friend to be coddled and showered with money and praise.

It seems to me that defending Israel is the only truly socially unacceptable position to take.

If my replies are short it’s not because I intend to be glib. I’m away from home and only have my phone, and these multi-reply things are a pain in he arse.

 

[Scotland]

Imagine if Hamas said the things about Israelis that the Israelis say about the Palestinians.

Yes. Imagine that.

Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 sermon: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words

Mod Edit: Anti-Defamation League

Anti-Defamation League (ADL) - Bias and Credibility

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Overall, we rate the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Left-Center biased based on political positions that mostly favor progressive liberal policy. We rate them Mostly Factual in reporting due to proper sourcing and a general commitment to evidence-based information, while noting that the organization has faced legitimate criticism for inconsistent civil rights advocacy, particularly regarding pro-Palestinian activism and student protests.

memri.org

Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Overall, we rate MEMRI a Questionable source based on the promotion of Israeli propaganda, poor sourcing, and a few failed fact checks.

 

[Harlott]

Yes. Imagine that.

Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 sermon: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words

That source….

 

[ElectricG]

That source….

Are you saying the quote isn’t real?

 

[jannissary]

Are you saying the quote isn’t real?

the ADL concurrently spends more time on alleged anti-semitism (such as this) while not caring about the rise of nazism in america and across the globe.

infact; they recently posted this the moment a muslim person was elected mayor in new york! https://www.adl.org/mamdani-monitor-holding-new-administration-accountable. talk about pushing an agenda and encouraging early 00’s anti-muslim racism.

 

[ElectricG]

the ADL concurrently spends more time on alleged anti-semitism (such as this) while not caring about the rise of nazism in america and across the globe.

infact; they recently posted this the moment a muslim person was elected mayor in new york! https://www.adl.org/mamdani-monitor-holding-new-administration-accountable. talk about pushing an agenda and encouraging early 00’s anti-muslim racism.

Is it a real quote though?

 

[Gethelred]

Is it a real quote though?

Considering where he got it from, potentially not.

 

[jannissary]

Is it a real quote though?

not sure, i’m disinclined to believe a lot of what the ADL publish since they ran defence for elon musk after he did his nazi salute in january. found here. as someone who is a (non practicing) jew, i was sickened that they claimed it was anything except a nazi salute. in my eyes they’re not reliable and not trustworthy

 

[ElectricG]

not sure, i’m disinclined to believe a lot of what the ADL publish since they ran defence for elon musk after he did his nazi salute in january. found here. as someone who is a (non practicing) jew, i was sickened that they claimed it was anything except a nazi salute. in my eyes they’re not reliable and not trustworthy

I’m not here to defend the source or anything. I genuinely don’t know if it’s a real quote.

 

[Harlott]

Are you saying the quote isn’t real?

Maybe your first question should’ve been to ask the guy who posted it, if it’s real.

 

[jannissary]

I’m not here to defend the source or anything. I genuinely don’t know if it’s a real quote.

i haven’t found anything that corroborates otherwise but it’s likely not something that’ll be widely reported on. i’d take it with a grain of salt but that’s just me

 

[Carn The Berries]

Gotta say I'm surprised the PM hasn't been dragged into this discussion yet

 

[Scotland]

Are you saying the quote isn’t real?

This board is next level. Number37 posts anti-Israel rhetoric 20,000 times and posting Hamas saying mean things gets a source warning.

Is it still OK to say that Hamas perpetrated Oct 7th? Or was it just a couple of bad eggs and not Hamas who are actually good guys?

This is from the UN website:

In a hate-filled, anti-Semitic speech in Gaza last week, Khaled Mashaal, the most senior member of Hamas, made clear, once again, that his terrorist organization seeks the destruction of Israel. I write to make sure that the world is listening.

In this speech, Mashaal said again that Hamas seeks to wipe Israel off the map using terrorism and violence. He said, “Liberating Palestine, all of Palestine, is an obligation … the jihad and the armed resistance are the true and correct way to liberation.”

Mashaal made clear that Hamas does not recognize Israel’s right to exist. He said, “Palestine — from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea, from the north to the south [i.e. all of Israel] — is our land … there will be no surrender of even the smallest piece of it … it is unthinkable that we would recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of it”.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-189224/

This is from Al-Jazeera:

What are Hamas’s principles?

Unlike the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Palestinian Authority (PA), Hamas does not recognise Israel and opposes the Oslo peace accords signed by Israel and the PLO in the mid-1990s.

What is Hamas? A simple guide to the armed Palestinian group

Israel has demanded that the Palestinian group Hamas disband and disarm after a Gaza ceasefire began.

www.aljazeera.com

You wouldn't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that a terrorist group that has spent decades attacking Israel sometimes says mean things about Israel.

 

[Harlott]

This board is next level. Number37 posts anti-Israel rhetoric 20,000 times and posting Hamas saying mean things gets a source warning.

Is it still OK to say that Hamas perpetrated Oct 7th? Or was it just a couple of bad eggs and not Hamas who are actually good guys?

This is from the UN website:

In a hate-filled, anti-Semitic speech in Gaza last week, Khaled Mashaal, the most senior member of Hamas, made clear, once again, that his terrorist organization seeks the destruction of Israel. I write to make sure that the world is listening.

In this speech, Mashaal said again that Hamas seeks to wipe Israel off the map using terrorism and violence. He said, “Liberating Palestine, all of Palestine, is an obligation … the jihad and the armed resistance are the true and correct way to liberation.”

Mashaal made clear that Hamas does not recognize Israel’s right to exist. He said, “Palestine — from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea, from the north to the south [i.e. all of Israel] — is our land … there will be no surrender of even the smallest piece of it … it is unthinkable that we would recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of it”.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-189224/

This is from Al-Jazeera:

What are Hamas’s principles?

Unlike the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Palestinian Authority (PA), Hamas does not recognise Israel and opposes the Oslo peace accords signed by Israel and the PLO in the mid-1990s.

What is Hamas? A simple guide to the armed Palestinian group

Israel has demanded that the Palestinian group Hamas disband and disarm after a Gaza ceasefire began.

www.aljazeera.com

You wouldn't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that a terrorist group that has spent decades attacking Israel sometimes says mean things about Israel.

Because your source is bs.

You even try to legitimise it by stating it’s from the UN website. It’s from the then Israeli ambassador Ron Prosor and we know they lie.

 

[ZEV]

Because your source is bs.

You even try to legitimise it by stating it’s from the UN website. It’s from the then Israeli ambassador Ron Prosor and we know they lie.

Can you clarify who “we” and “they” are?

 

[Harlott]

Can you clarify who “we” and “they” are?

We as in us who can see through the Israeli bs. They are the Israeli hierarchy and their enablers.