Society/Culture You cannot help them, just enjoy their company.

[CM86]

This Christmas season you're going to engage with people near and dear to your heart, so PLEASE... ignore your ideals.
Because if you care about them enough, and you understand their ideals enough... You'll lose them if you keep your ideals.

There is no level of logic, evidence or explanation that you can provide that isn't insulting to their position.
The more you desperately try to 'save' them, the more insulting you are.

Just enjoy their company and accept their opinions.

There is no way for you to engage with them that won't end in rage or tears (or both).

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I've seen so many families fall apart over the anti-vax stuff. These people loved each other...
They cannot reconcile their differences to save their family let alone find a logical balance for the sake of the mentality of their own children...
Your logic won't be the pivot point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try actually engaging and treating them with love, while also comprehensively proving your 'position'... Nothing but hate.
There is nothing you can do or say anymore.
You are insulting them because you are insulting their position.

It's literally the same on here. Try and engage someone that you genuinely want to help... And you've made an enemy for life.
A quick comparison is by example of just being rude and opinionated, but sometimes less rude... and they will find a way to treat you as a friend. Or at least in a friendly manner.

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Just for the holiday season, PLEASE just accept them for who they are. Regardless of how offensive their positions are. Or how easily destructible.
If they are not currently harming anyone or anything, just enjoy their company.
For many of them, they probably aren't used to love without political conditions via online forums.



I send my love, and wish everyone peace and care over the holiday break.

 

[ElectricG]

I’m not sure this is 100% the right attitude but it’s better than being the shrieker at the family gathering hahah

 

[Seeds]

Yeah while I support the sentiment I can't completely agree with this. Disagreement on specific topics alone shouldn't end families but love and respect aren't completely divorced from logic and beliefs. Eventually there is a tipping point where logic and beliefs vary to such an extent on multiple issues that relationships should not continue. A family above all attitude leads to people protecting family members that are murderers and the formation of Mafia style family systems and morality. Family is critically important. But it isn't everything.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah while I support the sentiment I can't completely agree with this. Disagreement on specific topics alone shouldn't end families but love and respect aren't completely divorced from logic and beliefs. Eventually there is a tipping point where logic and beliefs vary to such an extent on multiple issues that relationships should not continue. A family above all attitude leads to people protecting family members that are murderers and the formation of Mafia style family systems and morality. Family is critically important. But it isn't everything.

Whilst your premise is probably correct, fair speculation that protecting Mafia and murderers for the sake of family above rationale is likely the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Gethelred]

Whilst your premise is probably correct, fair speculation that protecting Mafia and murderers for the sake of family above rationale is likely the exception rather than the rule.

... how in utter * have you made an 'always the apples, never the barrel' argument about this?

 

[Carringbush2010]

... how in utter * have you made an 'always the apples, never the barrel' argument about this?

How in the utter * have you interpreted my post as such?

I'm not gonna go down this rabbit hole of yours, if you think that such a thing is a 'norm' then you do you. I won't engage.

 

[Gethelred]

How in the utter * have you interpreted my post as such?

I'm not gonna go down this rabbit hole of yours, if you think that such a thing is a 'norm' then you do you. I won't engage.

... do you realise how many murders go unsolved, CB? How many missing persons are never found and never resolved?

It's not possible to know whether you're correct or not, but that's not the point of my post. You twist yourself into painful positions - including that you think familial loyalty isn't a thing - in order to maintain your 'always the apples, never the barrel' position.

It's stupid, every time you do it. That you don't like being called on it isn't really a problem with me.

 

[ElectricG]

... do you realise how many murders go unsolved, CB? How many missing persons are never found and never resolved?

It's not possible to know whether you're correct or not, but that's not the point of my post. You twist yourself into painful positions - including that you think familial loyalty isn't a thing - in order to maintain your 'always the apples, never the barrel' position.

It's stupid, every time you do it. That you don't like being called on it isn't really a problem with me.

I really wish you would stop acting this way.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You twist yourself into painful positions

No I don't, you're doing this.

including that you think familial loyalty isn't a thing

Never said it wasn't.

in order to maintain your 'always the apples, never the barrel' position.

Not trying to maintain this stupid idea of yours, I really don't know how you interpret my posts this way.

It's stupid, every time you do it. That you don't like being called on it isn't really a problem with me.

Seems you have the problem, not me.

If mafia members and murderers were so prominent and it is so widespread that family members protect them then society would be much much worse.

Then you get defensive and your back up and come up with this apples and barrels line. You've interpreted my post as an either or, which is not what I stated, what I stated is what you bolded, if you believe that is the norm in society then I can't help you.

I'm gonna leave it there.

 

[Gethelred]

No I don't, you're doing this.

Never said it wasn't.

Not trying to maintain this stupid idea of yours, I really don't know how you interpret my posts this way.

Seems you have the problem, not me.

If mafia members and murderers were so prominent and it is so widespread that family members protect them then society would be much much worse.

Then you get defensive and your back up and come up with this apples and barrels line. You've interpreted my post as an either or, which is not what I stated, what I stated is what you bolded, if you believe that is the norm in society then I can't help you.

I'm gonna leave it there.

The only thing dumber than your adherence to this weird fixation that 'the majority would NEVER do' whatever is the idea that I've got my back up.

You do you.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Pull them up. They spend all day posting about being forced to eat bugs, muslims taking over, woke this and that. Bring them back.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Engimal v3]

Been in Tassie for 3 days, so far I've heard:

• Several uses of the N word
• "Lazy Aboriginals", etc.
• Trump 2024 (along with a flag)
• Russia are the good guys
• Everyone is too PC these days
• Palestinians complain too much
• Meghan Markle is a *in bitch
• Meghan Markle had a fake baby

 

[Engimal v3]

I also heard a "I don't like Meghan Markle because she's black" and I actually appreciated the honesty compared to the usual mental gymnastics lol

 

[ferball]

Been in Tassie for 3 days, so far I've heard:

• Several uses of the N word
• "Lazy Aboriginals", etc.
• Trump 2024 (along with a flag)
• Russia are the good guys
• Everyone is too PC these days
• Palestinians complain too much
• Meghan Markle is a *in bitch
• Meghan Markle had a fake baby

Cool. Moving there in five weeks.

Just up the road from where you're from too.

 

[Engimal v3]

Cool. Moving there in five weeks.

Just up the road from where you're from too.

Haha you'll be alright - things are changing, just slowly. I distinctly remember having my first real interaction with a non-white person at 16, and now there's other races living in the town.

I grew up as a genuine racist. I've said every rotten black joke you know and 100 you don't. It was all born out of ignorance and a lack of interaction with people that weren't like me. Kids today growing up in Tassie are getting those experiences, and having access to the Internet is bridging the gap a lot.

 

[ferball]

Haha you'll be alright - things are changing, just slowly. I distinctly remember having my first real interaction with a non-white person at 16, and now there's other races living in the town.

I grew up as a genuine racist. I've said every rotten black joke you know and 100 you don't. It was all born out of ignorance and a lack of interaction with people that weren't like me. Kids today growing up in Tassie are getting those experiences, and having access to the Internet is bridging the gap a lot.

Yeah I'll be alright. I've got family there.

I moved from Tassie to Melbourne in the very early 80s and found Melbourne more racist. But its changed alot since as well.

 

[Leeda]

I’m not sure this is 100% the right attitude but it’s better than being the shrieker at the family gathering hahah

Lordy, you sound a bit pompous....ie.....not in my cogniscence...let your self flutter a bit..

 

[Leeda]

... how in utter * have you made an 'always the apples, never the barrel' argument about this?

Protecting the 'loved ones'
Kinda dorky.....perhaps stuck in a loft....shudder

 

[Leeda]

I’m not sure this is 100% the right attitude but it’s better than being the shrieker at the family gathering hahah

Loud n obnoxious....sometimes dont mean it...but sometimes happy to be noticed....

 

[Cmarsh]

Been in Tassie for 3 days, so far I've heard:

• Several uses of the N word
• "Lazy Aboriginals", etc.
• Trump 2024 (along with a flag)
• Russia are the good guys
• Everyone is too PC these days
• Palestinians complain too much
• Meghan Markle is a *in bitch
• Meghan Markle had a fake baby

The North Melbourme football club needs to distance itself from Tasmania.

 

[the_interloper]

My brothers brother in law was commenting how he likes his holiday destination because everyone is basically all white. I said something like "oh dear imagine you saw a darkie up there, what the hell would you do?" He's a racist old prick just like his old man was, can't stand talking to the prick tbh.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

My Christmas was quite the opposite. Varied beliefs, values and cultural backgrounds all harmoniously enjoying the day. No one talked about politics, or anything contentious because in the context of the day it wasn't at all important. If who someone votes for, or what they think about Gaza, or if they use the correct pronouns 100% of the time, is so important to you that you would sever your connections with others over it....i suspect that you are the problem.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

My Christmas was quite the opposite. Varied beliefs, values and cultural backgrounds all harmoniously enjoying the day. No one talked about politics, or anything contentious because in the context of the day it wasn't at all important. If who someone votes for, or what they think about Gaza, or if they use the correct pronouns 100% of the time, is so important to you that you would sever your connections with others over it....i suspect that you are the problem.

But it isn't just those things that some people have to endure at gatherings. There's also blatant racism, and complete non-acceptance of someone's sexuality or gender identity. That's a bit more ugly than the examples you're giving.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd argue Family splits over political views are probably an exception rather than the rule.

Probably more down to personal disagreements I'd have thought.

If you split over political/ social issues then I'd say that is rather petulant.

As CM86 says, you can't help them, can't agree on world views. Nonetheless, they're Family and you should love them regardless.

Love doesn't require absolute compatible alignment.

Remember that, probably more pertinent than one's world views.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

But it isn't just those things that some people have to endure at gatherings. There's also blatant racism, and complete non-acceptance of someone's sexuality or gender identity. That's a bit more ugly than the examples you're giving.

Of course, it depends on the context...but there are also family members that turn up and literally police what everyone says to the point no one can relax. Those people are just trouble makers.