Society/Culture Alex Pearce supports Palestine/promotes terrorism depending who you ask

[ElectricG]

How many Gazan kids being killed are acceptable to you to in order that this is avoided. Twenty a day, thirty? Should they be gassed? They're some pretty severe preventative measures wouldn't you agree.

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

 

[Gough]

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

But it's not happening. What is happening is Israel are slaughtering kids with impunity and you seem to be justifying it with a hypothetical.

 

[RCAB]

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

No

It didn't happen before, why would it happen now.

Israel certainly has form given given they're a white-colonial power, the worst genociders.

 

[Gethelred]

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

Isn't this a hypothetical that has successfully been proven incorrect?

 

[ElectricG]

But it's not happening. What is happening is Israel are slaughtering kids with impunity and you seem to be justifying it with a hypothetical.

See, you can’t answer a simple question.

No

It didn't happen before, why would it happen now.

Israel certainly has form given given they're a white-colonial power, the worst genociders.

?? Because they can’t. How many rockets has Palestine in the lead up to this? How many terrorist attacks have there been?

Clearly October 7 was the maximum achievable with their resources.

 

[RCAB]

?? Because they can’t. How many rockets has Palestine in the lead up to this? How many terrorist attacks have there been?

Clearly October 7 was the maximum achievable with their resources.

The resources and limitations imposed by Europe and USA by proxy of Israel for almost 100 years.

Things were quite peaceful in Palestine till Zionists took over with their genocidal colonisation. This place is too nuanced for you.

 

[ElectricG]

The resources and limitations imposed by Europe and USA by proxy of Israel for almost 100 years.

Things were quite peaceful in Palestine till Zionists took over with their genocidal colonisation. This place is too nuanced for you.

… like five seconds ago I was being told off for being too nuanced. It’s silly.

 

[RCAB]

… like five seconds ago I was being told off for being too nuanced. It’s silly.

I have no idea what you're talking about. That sounds incongruent to me as I've never seen "nuanced" posts from you on this topic, just short clueless ones.

As was the response to my last post. You just completely ignored the 100 year occupation and genocide by Zionists which started before the Nakba.


That's the point, the "most important part" of this genocide you keep ignoring and pretending like it's not happening.


There's is no nuance from you, maybe in your mind there is but the reality is different.

 

[ElectricG]

I have no idea what you're talking about. That sounds incongruent to me as I've never seen "nuanced" posts from you on this topic, just short clueless ones.

As was the response to my last post. You just completely ignored the 100 year occupation and genocide by Zionists which started before the Nakba.


That's the point, the "most important part" of this genocide you keep ignoring and pretending like it's not happening.


Theirs is no nuance from you, maybe in your mind there is but the reality is different.

You have obviously not reading the thread. I am pointing out the fact that it was unanimously declared that nuance is bad. If you disagree well maybe take it up with those gigabrains.

Israel’s genocide is bad. Done. Now can we agree that terrorist organisations are bad? Can we maybe talk about the thread topic?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

They didn't back in the 1920s and 1930s when they had a solid majority in the area. If Israel was never formed, I don't see a reason why Palestine would have committed a massacre of Jews.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Answer my question. Would Palestine be committing their own genocide if there was the same imbalance in military power, but favouring them?

What a silly notion.

 

[ElectricG]

They didn't back in the 1920s and 1930s when they had a solid majority in the area. If Israel was never formed, I don't see a reason why Palestine would have committed a massacre of Jews.

They didn’t have a racist, murderous hatred of the Jews 120 years ago. So I guess they don’t now either!!! Great point, Johnny.

What a silly notion.

Because it’s true and you just don’t like it? They would absolutely scale October 7 up to genocidal proportions if they had the means. You know this.

 

[Harlott]

Yes, but both sides are genocidal, no? If the only thing making Palestine not look as bad is the fact that they’re losing, then you’re on pretty shaky ground morally.

One of your more ****** up posts

 

[RCAB]

ElectricG posts in this thread when we have a full thread about this already Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

 

[ElectricG]

ElectricG posts in this thread when we have a full thread about this already Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

I am literally the only person in the thread who wants to talk about Alex Pearce and whether it’s wise for a professional sportsman to report people notorious for supporting terrorism.

 

[RCAB]

I am literally the only person in the thread who wants to talk about Alex Pearce and whether it’s wise for a professional sportsman to report people notorious for supporting terrorism.

Your last half a dozen posts have nothing to do with Alex Pearce, go post them in the other thread.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They didn’t have a racist, murderous hatred of the Jews 120 years ago. So I guess they don’t now either!!! Great point, Johnny.

C'mon man, at least try and engage in good faith. Crimes breed hatred and violence, and that's why I thought Hamas' attack two years ago was not just cruel and directed at the wrong target, it was strategically bad too because it made peace and coexistence harder to achieve. The same was true of the Nakba. Palestinians will never get over that until they find justice.

What do you think the best resolution to this conflict is? Both sides finding a way to live alongside each other, or the Palestinians having more and more land stolen until they have nothing left and are evicted, Trail of Tears style?

 

[ElectricG]

C'mon man, at least try and engage in good faith. Crimes breed hatred and violence, and that's why I thought Hamas' attack two years ago was not just cruel and directed at the wrong target, it was strategically bad too because it made peace and coexistence harder to achieve. The same was true of the Nakba. Palestinians will never get over that until they find justice.

What do you think the best resolution to this conflict is? Both sides finding a way to live alongside each other, or the Palestinians having more and more land stolen until they have nothing left and are evicted, Trail of Tears style?

The best resolution? Some miracle whereby both sides stop fighting. I don’t know. Both sides having “cassis belli” makes it difficult.

Crimes breed crimes as you say, but I’m also dubious of the notion of that anything Palestine does can be blamed on Israel. It’s why I can condemn Israel’s genocide without tying myself in knots when the subject of Hamas/terrorism comes up.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The best resolution? Some miracle whereby both sides stop fighting. I don’t know. Both sides having “cassis belli” makes it difficult.

I think it requires both sides being willing to give up something in the spirit of compromise. The Palestinians have already given up an awful lot, most of the land and many lives. Any settlement will involve Israel controlling all their borders too, because they won't budge on that. What will the Israelis give up? With Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich calling the shots, probably nothing. But if the idea is to stop Palestinians wanting to murder them all, something has to be given up.

The other day I was reading about the Armenia - Azerbaijan peace process, another conflict with a religious as well as ethnic difference, one that's also extremely bitter and also has decades of atrocities and ethnic cleansing. That conflict is ending with Armenia essentially capitulating to Azerbaijan and giving them everything they want.

The reason Armenians can stomach that, galling as it is, is because they still have a country with sovereign borders to go back to at the end. Azerbaijan isn't taking more and more of Armenia every month and leaving Armenians with less and less until they have nothing, they will still be left with something.

Palestine doesn't even have that much. Israel is taking everything away from them, piece by piece, life by life. I think it's very hard to expect people not to hate when there's seemingly no end to their degradation and destruction. No solution can be reached when people like Ben Gvir have influence, he's basically the Hamas of Israel.

Crimes breed crimes as you say, but I’m also dubious of the notion of that anything Palestine does can be blamed on Israel. It’s why I can condemn Israel’s genocide without tying myself in knots when the subject of Hamas/terrorism comes up.

I think every action has a cause. By that I don't mean Hamas' actions are justified, just, as they said in V for Vendetta, treating people monstrously will turn them into a monster. Are you aware of how multiple Israeli governments, and Netanyahu in particular, built Hamas up to make the Palestinians look more unreasonable, because they didn't want to give Fatah an inch?

By the way, we know what Gaza without Hamas would look like - it'd look like the West Bank, where Hamas doesn't have power, Fatah does. And how's that going? Sure, they're not getting bombed to rubble over and over, but Israeli settlers keep taking more and more land. It's just a slower death. What is a Palestinian supposed to do to prevent that happening?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

They didn’t have a racist, murderous hatred of the Jews 120 years ago. So I guess they don’t now either!!! Great point, Johnny.

Why do you think they are not fond if Israelis?

Do you think you would be a big fan of Israel after being on the wrong end of an ethnic cleansing campaign followed by 50+ years of brutal illegal military occupation?

Because it’s true and you just don’t like it? They would absolutely scale October 7 up to genocidal proportions if they had the means. You know this.

You mean, like Israel are? You think you know a lot, but you don't.

I'm sure the resistance forces would love to deliver wholesale death dispassionately from 3,000 feet, just as their oppressors do. And it would be every bit their right as people resisting their own occupation. That's actual, legal, self-defence.

And given Israel's actions over the last two years, sounds like you wouldn't complain if Tel Aviv was bombed to nothing but rubble. Men, women, children, slaughtered and driven from their homes. Schools, hospitals, synagogues, universities, parliamentary buildings, civilian infrastructure, all turned to dust?

 

[ElectricG]

I think it requires both sides being willing to give up something in the spirit of compromise. The Palestinians have already given up an awful lot, most of the land and many lives. Any settlement will involve Israel controlling all their borders too, because they won't budge on that. What will the Israelis give up? With Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich calling the shots, probably nothing. But if the idea is to stop Palestinians wanting to murder them all, something has to be given up.

The other day I was reading about the Armenia - Azerbaijan peace process, another conflict with a religious as well as ethnic difference, one that's also extremely bitter and also has decades of atrocities and ethnic cleansing. That conflict is ending with Armenia essentially capitulating to Azerbaijan and giving them everything they want.

The reason Armenians can stomach that, galling as it is, is because they still have a country with sovereign borders to go back to at the end. Azerbaijan isn't taking more and more of Armenia every month and leaving Armenians with less and less until they have nothing, they will still be left with something.

Palestine doesn't even have that much. Israel is taking everything away from them, piece by piece, life by life. I think it's very hard to expect people not to hate when there's seemingly no end to their degradation and destruction. No solution can be reached when people like Ben Gvir have influence, he's basically the Hamas of Israel.


I think every action has a cause. By that I don't mean Hamas' actions are justified, just, as they said in V for Vendetta, treating people monstrously will turn them into a monster. Are you aware of how multiple Israeli governments, and Netanyahu in particular, built Hamas up to make the Palestinians look more unreasonable, because they didn't want to give Fatah an inch?

By the way, we know what Gaza without Hamas would look like - it'd look like the West Bank, where Hamas doesn't have power, Fatah does. And how's that going? Sure, they're not getting bombed to rubble over and over, but Israeli settlers keep taking more and more land. It's just a slower death. What is a Palestinian supposed to do to prevent that happening?

I don’t really agree and I really hate the way people use that v for vendetta quote. You can point to similarly oppressed peoples in world history who don’t then take on the same characteristics as Hamas. Take for example Ukraine. They are losing their war. Why don’t they gang rape Russian women at a music festival? Why do they remain a racially and culturally pluralistic country, rather than becoming the type of cult that will hack your head off if you’re not the specific type of god botherer they prefer? I’d argue that you are already grading Palestine on a curve if you think their antisemitism is justified because it makes a good point.

With this conversation about Israel propping up Hamas, I’m reminded of the nihilistic impulses that used to overcome people when talking about the Taliban. You couldn’t say that you think putting women in bags and denying girls an education is bad without some smart guy chiming in to lecture us about how the taliban was resourced by the USA for so long. Like, great, here’s a medal for being right about that. But, despite that, the taliban are still really terrible aren’t they!? Why can’t we say it?

Out of curiosity, what is your view of Hamas? I don’t think you’ve said yet. Something that can be condemned outright, or purely a manifestation of Israel’s evil, which, through some perverse logic, makes them defensible?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

You can point to similarly oppressed peoples in world history who don’t then take on the same characteristics as Hamas. Take for example Ukraine.

There are no similarly oppressed people, anywhere. Ukraine is a ridiculous example. Ukraine has the strong backing of many western nations, has had material support given to them in the form of advanced military equipment, and have diplomatic support expressed constantly.

The fact you would try and draw this comparison is honestly embarrassing.

They are losing their war. Why don’t they gang rape Russian women at a music festival?

Telling that you have to fall back on atrocity propaganda to attempt to make a point. There were no gang rapes on Oct 7.

Why do they remain a racially and culturally pluralistic country, rather than becoming the type of cult that will hack your head off if you’re not the specific type of god botherer they prefer?

Ridiculous false framing of the Palestinian people. You're sick, seek help.

 

[RedOrWhite]

There are no similarly oppressed people, anywhere. Ukraine is a ridiculous example. Ukraine has the strong backing of many western nations, has had material support given to them in the form of advanced military equipment, and have diplomatic support expressed constantly.

The fact you would try and draw this comparison is honestly embarrassing.



Telling that you have to fall back on atrocity propaganda to attempt to make a point. There were no gang rapes on Oct 7.



Ridiculous false framing of the Palestinian people. You're sick, seek help.

Strongly agree Doris, especially the last part

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don’t really agree and I really hate the way people use that v for vendetta quote.

Why? I think it's true in many cases. Many peoples who have suffered have become embittered or deeply ethnically chauvinist as a result and gone on to oppress others themselves. Israel is a good example of this.

You can point to similarly oppressed peoples in world history who don’t then take on the same characteristics as Hamas.

Of course you can, even within the Palestinian population themselves, as Hamas are the worst of the lot and every other Palestinian group is less cooked than them.

I'm not saying it's a rule in all cases, but I do think the desire for vengeance is a base instinct in human nature that has to be overcome for peace and coexistence to prevail. Extremists exist everywhere, and so do reasonable people. The Jewish population of pre-1947 Palestine had groups like the Irgun, Haganah and Lehi that sound quite similar to Hamas.

Take for example Ukraine. They are losing their war. Why don’t they gang rape Russian women at a music festival?

Do you honestly think gang rape doesn't occur in most wars, including in that one? They occur in almost all military occupations of enemy civilian populations, I've read enough military history to know that. Soldiers are conditioned to be desensitised to the human impact of killing their enemies, and any civilians that they see as part of the enemy forces. If you're already dehumanising those people, it's not a big leap from that to rape. This will happen in conflict unless there is strict discipline with credible threats of punishment from the military hierarchy, and even that didn't stop US soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison.

We haven't heard reports of the gang rape of Russian women by Ukrainian soldiers because Ukraine hasn't been occupying much Russian territory outside of a very small area in Kursk. They've had no opportunity.

Why do they remain a racially and culturally pluralistic country, rather than becoming the type of cult that will hack your head off if you’re not the specific type of god botherer they prefer? I’d argue that you are already grading Palestine on a curve if you think their antisemitism is justified because it makes a good point.

Ukraine? I don't think they're all that racially or culturally pluralistic, actually. They're pretty much all white and Orthodox Christian or irreligious. I'd argue Palestine is more culturally pluralistic due to the significant Christian population, who have suffered much more from Israeli bombs than from anything Hamas has done to them.

I said absolutely nothing about antisemitism being justified. Please do me the courtesy of not stuffing words in my mouth, and please do everyone the courtesy of not equating the actions of Israel with all Jews.

In regards to grading peoples differently though, do you think if a Jew hated Germany while Germany was killing Jews, or a Chinese person hated Japan while Japan was occupying China and murdering and raping its people, that should be viewed exactly the same way as, say, a white British Christian person hating Germany or Japan? If not, then you agree that context does matter in how we view the world.

With this conversation about Israel propping up Hamas, I’m reminded of the nihilistic impulses that used to overcome people when talking about the Taliban. You couldn’t say that you think putting women in bags and denying girls an education is bad without some smart guy chiming in to lecture us about how the taliban was resourced by the USA for so long. Like, great, here’s a medal for being right about that. But, despite that, the taliban are still really terrible aren’t they!? Why can’t we say it?

Where did I, or anyone else, stop you from saying that the Taliban or Hamas are terrible? I feel like you're complaining about not being able to do something that you're not only allowed to do, but practically everyone would agree with you on.

Those groups being bad also doesn't invalidate the points being brought up. The US did strengthen the Taliban enormously. Why do you think people bring it up? Do you think they simply hate the US and consequently like anything or anyone opposed to the US? Or could it be that they're saying that the US and its allies really ought not to strengthen extremists over the more reasonable parties, not only because it makes peace harder to achieve, but also because the same extremists might become a real danger one day? I think it's the latter.

Earlier you pointed out that similarly oppressed peoples don't act like Hamas do. But groups of people, including Palestinians, take on a range of responses to oppression, not just one. Hamas is not the only Palestinian resistance group, nor was it the first. They grew big because their growth was assisted, both directly and indirectly, by the Israeli state at the expense of the more reasonable groups. Isn't it a bit strange to blame Palestinians for having hateful or violent feelings towards Israel, when the Israeli state promoted the organisations spreading that rhetoric?

Out of curiosity, what is your view of Hamas? I don’t think you’ve said yet. Something that can be condemned outright, or purely a manifestation of Israel’s evil, which, through some perverse logic, makes them defensible?

Gee, you're now asking me for my views on Hamas, AFTER suggesting I think antisemitism is justified. Perhaps it would have been politer to ask that earlier?

I've already said above, Hamas are monsters. I sympathise with the cause of Palestinian liberation, but the way Hamas go about it is not only cruel and inhumane, it's stupid. Palestinian groups have tried violence for years and it didn't work. But suddenly killing some people who didn't attack Palestinians themselves is going to make everything better?

I have been consistent in these views ever since shortly after the attacks, and as proof, I offer this comment, two years ago to the day:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Judaism as a religion is over 3,300 years old, Islam 1,400. Now I think all religious are a waste of one's brain capacity however when people, such as the esteemed senator Thorpe, complain about Israel colonising Palestinian land, perhaps they should do themselves a favour and go study ancient...

www.bigfooty.com

I also think blaming everything on Hamas misses half the picture. You cannot tell the full story of Hamas without telling the story of how the Israeli state in general and Netanyahu in particular, wanted them to grow bigger and dominate the Palestinian resistance. It proves Netanyahu was never interested in finding a way for both peoples to live in peace and dignity, he just wanted Israel to crush and subjugate Palestinians forever. And undoing the damage he has caused to the peace process is going to take a century.

Netanyahu and Hamas are both fascist monsters, but Western nations act like only one of them is, and the other is a special friend to be coddled and showered with money and praise.

 

[Harlott]

Why? I think it's true in many cases. Many peoples who have suffered have become embittered or deeply ethnically chauvinist as a result and gone on to oppress others themselves. Israel is a good example of this.


Of course you can, even within the Palestinian population themselves, as Hamas are the worst of the lot and every other Palestinian group is less cooked than them.

I'm not saying it's a rule in all cases, but I do think the desire for vengeance is a base instinct in human nature that has to be overcome for peace and coexistence to prevail. Extremists exist everywhere, and so do reasonable people. The Jewish population of pre-1947 Palestine had groups like the Irgun, Haganah and Lehi that sound quite similar to Hamas.


Do you honestly think gang rape doesn't occur in most wars, including in that one? They occur in almost all military occupations of enemy civilian populations, I've read enough military history to know that. Soldiers are conditioned to be desensitised to the human impact of killing their enemies, and any civilians that they see as part of the enemy forces. If you're already dehumanising those people, it's not a big leap from that to rape. This will happen in conflict unless there is strict discipline with credible threats of punishment from the military hierarchy, and even that didn't stop US soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison.

We haven't heard reports of the gang rape of Russian women by Ukrainian soldiers because Ukraine hasn't been occupying much Russian territory outside of a very small area in Kursk. They've had no opportunity.


Ukraine? I don't think they're all that racially or culturally pluralistic, actually. They're pretty much all white and Orthodox Christian or irreligious. I'd argue Palestine is more culturally pluralistic due to the significant Christian population, who have suffered much more from Israeli bombs than from anything Hamas has done to them.

I said absolutely nothing about antisemitism being justified. Please do me the courtesy of not stuffing words in my mouth, and please do everyone the courtesy of not equating the actions of Israel with all Jews.

In regards to grading peoples differently though, do you think if a Jew hated Germany while Germany was killing Jews, or a Chinese person hated Japan while Japan was occupying China and murdering and raping its people, that should be viewed exactly the same way as, say, a white British Christian person hating Germany or Japan? If not, then you agree that context does matter in how we view the world.


Where did I, or anyone else, stop you from saying that the Taliban or Hamas are terrible? I feel like you're complaining about not being able to do something that you're not only allowed to do, but practically everyone would agree with you on.

Those groups being bad also doesn't invalidate the points being brought up. The US did strengthen the Taliban enormously. Why do you think people bring it up? Do you think they simply hate the US and consequently like anything or anyone opposed to the US? Or could it be that they're saying that the US and its allies really ought not to strengthen extremists over the more reasonable parties, not only because it makes peace harder to achieve, but also because the same extremists might become a real danger one day? I think it's the latter.

Earlier you pointed out that similarly oppressed peoples don't act like Hamas do. But groups of people, including Palestinians, take on a range of responses to oppression, not just one. Hamas is not the only Palestinian resistance group, nor was it the first. They grew big because their growth was assisted, both directly and indirectly, by the Israeli state at the expense of the more reasonable groups. Isn't it a bit strange to blame Palestinians for having hateful or violent feelings towards Israel, when the Israeli state promoted the organisations spreading that rhetoric?


Gee, you're now asking me for my views on Hamas, AFTER suggesting I think antisemitism is justified. Perhaps it would have been politer to ask that earlier?

I've already said above, Hamas are monsters. I sympathise with the cause of Palestinian liberation, but the way Hamas go about it is not only cruel and inhumane, it's stupid. Palestinian groups have tried violence for years and it didn't work. But suddenly killing some people who didn't attack Palestinians themselves is going to make everything better?

I have been consistent in these views ever since shortly after the attacks, and as proof, I offer this comment, two years ago to the day:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Judaism as a religion is over 3,300 years old, Islam 1,400. Now I think all religious are a waste of one's brain capacity however when people, such as the esteemed senator Thorpe, complain about Israel colonising Palestinian land, perhaps they should do themselves a favour and go study ancient...

www.bigfooty.com

I also think blaming everything on Hamas misses half the picture. You cannot tell the full story of Hamas without telling the story of how the Israeli state in general and Netanyahu in particular, wanted them to grow bigger and dominate the Palestinian resistance. It proves Netanyahu was never interested in finding a way for both peoples to live in peace and dignity, he just wanted Israel to crush and subjugate Palestinians forever. And undoing the damage he has caused to the peace process is going to take a century.

Netanyahu and Hamas are both fascist monsters, but Western nations act like only one of them is, and the other is a special friend to be coddled and showered with money and praise.

What about Israelis in general? The majority are pro what the government is doing, no?