Dockers, Eagles reserves plans collapse

[Wigarus]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/13598186/dockers-eagles-reserves-plans-collapse/

 

[Si Botak]

I can see the point of view from the WCE and FFC, but I remain unconvinced that it wouldn't have been more pain for Western Australian footy than it was worth.

To say nothing of the fact that last year during the height of the debate we struggled to put 22 fit players on a field, let alone field a Reserves side.

 

[Wigarus]

I wish that I had enough time to watch every Wafl game every round as well as every freo game.

I can only imagine how difficult it would be for the coaching staff.

Also I really don't understand the fascination with the amount of players we could field. Considering we are one of only 4 afl teams without an affiliate team I'm sure it would work itself out.

 

[estibador]

Can't blame the WAFL clubs really, but it's a shame, I'd enjoy travelling around to all the WAFL grounds to watch our reserves whenever I could.

I wonder if they'll be more receptive if the AFL boys come back to the table with the $$$$?

 

[tofushark]

Can't blame the WAFL clubs really, but it's a shame, I'd enjoy travelling around to all the WAFL grounds to watch our reserves whenever I could.

I wonder if they'll be more receptive if the AFL boys come back to the table with the $$$$?

I may be wrong, but doesn't the WA AFL teams essentially generate the vast majority of funds to sustain the WAFL as it is.

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

I think the South Australian teams are having similar problems.

Why dont we talk to them about creating some type of league, maybe sydney or brisbane might be interested too?

even if it was only wc, fre, port, adel you would still get to play a different team every 3 weeks, and it would train our players good travel habits to play interstate.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I think the South Australian teams are having similar problems.

Why dont we talk to them about creating some type of league, maybe sydney or brisbane might be interested too?

even if it was only wc, fre, port, adel you would still get to play a different team every 3 weeks, and it would train our players good travel habits to play interstate.

Have been thinking for a while that this was a better idea once the WAFL showed it wasn't interested. Tell them that's fine but we're pulling our players and setting up our own reserves league with other interested national reserve teams with the hope of one day instigating a national AFL reserves league.

The AFL would still keep its development ties and funding links with the WAFL and other 2nd tier leagues due to the need to top up the AFL Reserves teams with extra players.

This would also give the AFL teams better opportunity to look at and potentially groom new mature-age recruits.

 

[Sman-21]

Good idea but the clubs would have to pay for all the travel, so it would become too costly.

WAFL is missing out here, scared of change, it would boost attendances and generate more income.

 

[Underdog]

I may be wrong, but doesn't the WA AFL teams essentially generate the vast majority of funds to sustain the WAFL as it is.

Amongst other things. The AFL sides are owned by the WAFC who have a far greater scope then simply doing what's best for the AFL sides.

The WAFC's role includes ownership of the State's two AFL teams - West Coast Eagles and Fremantle Football Club (Dockers), guiding the West Australian Football League (State league competition), overseeing community football, managing umpiring, football development through participation and the talent pathway and acting as the manager of Patersons Stadium.

 

[Underdog]

WAFL is missing out here, scared of change, it would boost attendances and generate more income.

That's merely an assumption that people are going to care enough to go and watch a scratch match. I go to watch Swans every week but I'm not going to watch a scratchie against WC or Freo.

Regardless, they are a semi-professional competition with modest finances, I don't think being scared of change is such a bad thing when they are plodding along OK as it stands.

They would have a risk/reward level in mind. Personally, I think the risk is high but the reward isn't. I don't see the competition, players or clubs gaining much, if at all.

 

[tofushark]

Amongst other things. The AFL sides are owned by the WAFC who have a far greater scope then simply doing what's best for the AFL sides.

You know what I meant, this concerns the senior WAFL sides not the development and other facets of football in Western Australia. I don't think some WAFL players would be getting paid what they are if the WA AFL teams didn't generate the funds they do.

This debate is worthless as the WAFL loyalists will never give ground.

 

[holy diver]

I think the South Australian teams are having similar problems.

Why dont we talk to them about creating some type of league, maybe sydney or brisbane might be interested too?

even if it was only wc, fre, port, adel you would still get to play a different team every 3 weeks, and it would train our players good travel habits to play interstate.

That's not a bad idea. I'm sure there could be some way the clubs with the help of the AFL could get together and swing it. It would be expensive for what it is but it may sort out having a full time reserve team.

 

[Sman-21]

Ive lost complete interest in WAFL now
Still occasionally check results on news and look on here BUT only for info on freo players.

Im not going to go to a WAFL game to see 2 young freo players.

If i had the opportunity to watch 10 plus at 1 venue, I will be there to get a first hand look at our younsters and others pushing for spots.

Pretty sure many other die hard Freo/Eagle fans would be in the same boat.

 

[Underdog]

You know what I meant, this concerns the senior WAFL sides not the development and other facets of football in Western Australia. I don't think some WAFL players would be getting paid what they are if the WA AFL teams didn't generate the funds they do.

I still don't understand your point?

The parent organisation can do whatever it wants with our club's profits that best suit their agenda.

The WAFL are already providing an important service to AFL clubs by allowing their reserves players to play within their ranks, often at the expense of their own players' development and opportunities.

 

[Demons09]

You know what I meant, this concerns the senior WAFL sides not the development and other facets of football in Western Australia. I don't think some WAFL players would be getting paid what they are if the WA AFL teams didn't generate the funds they do.

This debate is worthless as the WAFL loyalists will never give ground.

There is a salary cap, and all clubs have sponsors so this argument doesn't hold much weight.

WC has won three premierships with this current system, its only become a problem since clubs started dropping players who weren't performing to the ressies, some of these players have gone on to be delisted i dont think it would matter if the two AFL teams had reserves or not.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

well thats a real shame.... i am a member of south fremantle... but i would have dropped them like a bag of potatoes had fremantle been given a team in the wafl......... rally disappointed but not surprised... i honestly believe it would have been of benefit to the dockers

 

[eastfreo75]

West Aussies can be so backwards and block change no matter what it is.

An Eagles or Dockers team won't win a premiership.

The WAFL give the VFL as example of the old VFA Clubs being ruined. They only being ruined because most teams are alligned an AFL club and that VFA is losing their identity.

Can't see how a Dockers or Eagles team will weaken the identity of the WAFL teams and can't see how they will lose money because it.

 

[Underdog]

Ive lost complete interest in WAFL now

If i had the opportunity to watch 10 plus at 1 venue, I will be there to get a first hand look at our younsters and others pushing for spots.

Pretty sure many other die hard Freo/Eagle fans would be in the same boat.

Why would the WAFL care to cater to your needs considering you have no interest in the competition?

Why would the WAFL clubs want to risk financial loss and injuries to play glorified scratch matches? These are semi-professional players. A busted knee has wider implications with their full time employment then a Purple or Gold sitting on $80,000 regardless.

I just don't see the logic in favour of this from the WAFL POV. So far it amounts to them apparently raking in money from the games when there isn't any evidence to suggest as such. The proposal didn't even include compensation!

You could liken them to intra club games that only generally attract around 3000 people. How many of them would continue to turn up each week in the rain, hail or shine from Joondalup to Bassendean to Mandurah? I doubt many would.

 

[Underdog]

well thats a real shame.... i am a member of south fremantle... but i would have dropped them like a bag of potatoes had fremantle been given a team in the wafl

There is exactly one of the risk factors involved in this proposal. The last thing the WAFL would want is to take members or supporters from genuine WAFL clubs.

 

[yakka man]

I think the South Australian teams are having similar problems.

Why dont we talk to them about creating some type of league, maybe sydney or brisbane might be interested too?

even if it was only wc, fre, port, adel you would still get to play a different team every 3 weeks, and it would train our players good travel habits to play interstate.

Would be a great idea but the WAFC would never allow it. Port would find it the hardest being a finincialyl struggling club. It's a shame because having a separate reserves team would be a great advantage and it's disappointing that the WAFC and WAFL clubs aren't taking it seriously.

 

[tofushark]

There is a salary cap, and all clubs have sponsors so this argument doesn't hold much weight.

WC has won three premierships with this current system, its only become a problem since clubs started dropping players who weren't performing to the ressies, some of these players have gone on to be delisted i dont think it would matter if the two AFL teams had reserves or not.

I don't know why I am continue this as these debates are always without end.

Firstly the game has changed, team tatics are more important now than before, and so the fact the weagles won premierships in the past is irrelevant.

The question is would Fremantle players benefit from playing under the same game plan each week, and obviously the people in the know think they would.

Do you know for a fact that WAFL clubs are self sufficient financially? I don't but I highly doubt it considering the costs involved and the amount of money Freo and Weagles contribute to football in WA (yes as pointed out there are other aspects to cover as well).

Anyway I am out of this debate as you will never have a reasonable discussion on such an emotive topic.

 

[Underdog]

Would be a great idea but the WAFC would never allow it. Port would find it the hardest being a finincialyl struggling club. It's a shame because having a separate reserves team would be a great advantage and it's disappointing that the WAFC and WAFL clubs aren't taking it seriously.

They're the ones not taking it seriously?

Harvey was also critical that the draft paper did not include any compensation for WAFL clubs.

"They presented an operation manual but it had a page missing - the one with the dollars written on it," he said.

 

[Clems Knee]

I reckon it makes sense to allow your up and comers to develop in the same team. Freo was allied with Souths a few years ago, and the Slime with East Perth. With Turnbull, they won three premierships. The problem was that they made strong clubs even stronger.

Why not put all of our list down at Peel? They struggle to keep their youngsters who move to Perth, so this would make up for it. They would benefit because Freo would supply the good coaches for the rest of the Peel team.
Eagles could have Perth. Perth have done nothing for a lifetime so they could hardly get worse. Plus, Perth is a real place, not a highway or an Americanism.
The WAfl keeps its nine team competition. The league's easy beats have a chance to become a force, and the AFL clubs get their players to play together. Perth and Peel may feel like they've been taken over, but it's what they deserve.

 

[Underdog]

The question is would Fremantle players benefit from playing under the same game plan each week, and obviously the people in the know think they would.

The role of the WAFL and it's presidents is little else then to look after their competition, their club and their districts.

Whether it would be a bit better for Freo or West Coast really isn't at all relevant to them.

What they require is some assurances the above will not be compromised and that they will in fact be significantly better off if advancing with this proposal.

From the sounds of it, the AFL clubs didn't get even close to the mark.

It seems the only thing they receive out of this is the gate takings which mightn't be any more then they currently get at a WAFL game regardless.

They then have to weigh this up with operating losses, losing players, dilution of talent, losing members/supporters etc.

It's very easy to see why they came to their conclusion.

 

[yakka man]

They're the ones not taking it seriously?

They had already made up their mind ages ago. It was never going to happen. But Freo and West Coast should still be looking into ways do implement reserves teams, even if it is only 5 games a year and it is part of the Foxtel cup or something like that.

Harvey feared that the introduction of AFL reserves would see the WAFL eventually mirror the demise of the current Victorian Football League which had barely any media interest or spectators attend matches, seen club identities and AFL-club affiliations change regularly and lost the culture and history of the original league.

I agree with that, the WAFL tradition should be the highest priority. But the benefit to Freo is my highest concern.