Draft mechanisms under review

[RUNVS]

Who would get it if every team bids the max for pick 1?

The team that bid the most points.

So for instance, Gil walks to the stage and says "the bidding for pick 1 is now open"

Every team has their computer

Adelaide - 2100 points - Cadman
Brisbane - 1860 points - Humphrey
Carlton - No bid
Collingwood - 1687 points - Cadman
Essendon - 2402 points - Ashcroft
Fremantle - 2800 points - Cadman
Geelong - 1200 points - Cadman
Gold Coast - 2551 points - Humphrey
GWS - 2701 points - Cadman
Hawthorn - 3056 points - Cadman
Melbourne - 1703 points - Cadman
North Melbourne - No bid
Port Adelaide - 1912 points - Sheezel
Richmond - 1213 points - Cadman
St Kilda - 2600 points - Cadman
Sydney - 2081 points - Humphrey
West Coast - 2791 points - Ashcroft
Western Bulldogs - No bid

So every team has had their 2 minutes to submit the points they are willing to pay for pick 1, and the player they want.

After that Gil walks onto the stage and says Hawthorn have received pick 1 and have drafted Aaron Cadman.

Hawthorn get Cadman and lose 3056 points from their points tally. They interview Cadman, give him the Hawks guernsey and then Gil says "bidding for pick 2 is now open" and the process happens again.

 

[HugeJohnson]

The team that bid the most points.

So for instance, Gil walks to the stage and says "the bidding for pick 1 is now open"

Every team has their computer

Adelaide - 2100 points - Cadman
Brisbane - 1860 points - Humphrey
Carlton - No bid
Collingwood - 1687 points - Cadman
Essendon - 2402 points - Ashcroft
Fremantle - 2800 points - Cadman
Geelong - 1200 points - Cadman
Gold Coast - 2551 points - Humphrey
GWS - 2701 points - Cadman
Hawthorn - 3056 points - Cadman
Melbourne - 1703 points - Cadman
North Melbourne - No bid
Port Adelaide - 1912 points - Sheezel
Richmond - 1213 points - Cadman
St Kilda - 2600 points - Cadman
Sydney - 2081 points - Humphrey
West Coast - 2791 points - Ashcroft
Western Bulldogs - No bid

So every team has had their 2 minutes to submit the points they are willing to pay for pick 1, and the player they want.

After that Gil walks onto the stage and says Hawthorn have received pick 1 and have drafted Aaron Cadman.

Hawthorn get Cadman and lose 3056 points from their points tally. They interview Cadman, give him the Hawks guernsey and then Gil says "bidding for pick 2 is now open" and the process happens again.

What if every team said '3000 points - Cadman' ?

 

[RUNVS]

What if every team said '3000 points - Cadman' ?

In that unlikely event, goes to the team that was lower down on the ladder.

Remember teams don't need to go 3000 points, they can try and game the system and go 3012 points, or just a little higher than they think other clubs would go.

 

[HugeJohnson]

In that unlikely event, goes to the team that was lower down on the ladder.

Remember teams don't need to go 3000 points, they can try and game the system and go 3012 points, or just a little higher than they think other clubs would go.

So would each team have the same amount of points to play with or is it scaled by ladder position?

Edit:Hypothetically, how many points would each team have from 1st - 18th?

 

[RUNVS]

So would each team have the same amount of points to play with or is it scaled by ladder position?

Edit:Hypothetically, how many points would each team have from 1st - 18th?

I came up with this a few years ago

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

but this was solely based on the AFL points system, so how many points each team had in the draft based on the draft selection each team was given.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf

(on page 7)

Now if the AFL were actually going to implement an idea like this I don't think they would use those exact points, but I thought it would be a good starting point to work off.

So a team that finishes 1st and gets 1726 points would need to do a lot of trading away to push up into contention for having a serious bid for pick 1, and if they did they would probably have to blow all their points on pick 1 leaving no points for later picks.

 

[RUNVS]

So would each team have the same amount of points to play with or is it scaled by ladder position?

Edit:Hypothetically, how many points would each team have from 1st - 18th?

So right now Port and Essendon are having an argument over Zerk-Thature and Duursma. Under a currency based system it would be a fairly easy deal, or at least easier.

eg
Essendon get Duursma
Port Adelaide get Zerk-Thature and 350 points.

or something like that, giving Port Adelaide a stronger hand in bidding in the draft.

Then Port Adelaide could say Ratugolea is worth 400 points, and Geelong argue he is actually worth 700 points, both teams negotiate and eventually decide Port will pay Geelong 570 points for Ratugolea.

It is an easier system as you don't need to find draft picks in the correct range when clubs don't have picks in that range. It moves the trade system from a barter based system to a currency based system.

 

[HugeJohnson]

I came up with this a few years ago

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

but this was solely based on the AFL points system, so how many points each team had in the draft based on the draft selection each team was given.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf

(on page 7)

Now if the AFL were actually going to implement an idea like this I don't think they would use those exact points, but I thought it would be a good starting point to work off.

So a team that finishes 1st and gets 1726 points would need to do a lot of trading away to push up into contention for having a serious bid for pick 1, and if they did they would probably have to blow all their points on pick 1 leaving no points for later picks.

But how would the player trades work?

For example, Port want Esava Ratagolea from Geelong. Port, in 5th place have 2077 points to spend, and Geelong in 12th have 2913 points. Say Geelong ask for 500-600 points, a quarter of Ports capital. Geelong then essentially move from having the 6th or 7th best draft hand, to having the 3rd or 4th best. Is Esava Ratagolea worth an upgrade of Pick 6 to Pick 3?

 

[RUNVS]

But how would the player trades work?

For example, Port want Esava Ratagolea from Geelong. Port, in 5th place have 2077 points to spend, and Geelong in 12th have 2913 points. Say Geelong ask for 500-600 points, a quarter of Ports capital. Geelong then essentially move from having the 6th best draft hand, to having the 3rd or 4th best. Is Esava Ratagolea worth an upgrade of Pick 6 to Pick 3?

Don't forget those numbers are the entire draft hand, not the first round so it evens out a bit.

Also it is entirely up to a team to decide if Ratagolea is worth that. If a team wants to they can go into the draft with 0 points, having traded out all their points for established players and only able to go into the draft when all other clubs have used their points or are no longer bidding. Normal trading too in theory hurts the draft hand of a club that is bringing in the traded player, so this would not be too different.

If a bottom team wants to they can ignore the first part of the draft where clubs are blowing through large amounts of points and suddenly go on the attack at picks 6, 7, 8 and 9, picking up not quite the cream of the draft but getting a lot more quantity.

In my system West Coast would have the most points right now, but they would not have pick 1, so they would not need to worry about trading pick 1, and instead can just bid on the player they want in the draft.

 

[HugeJohnson]

The old system was logically sound. Free agency compensation, NGA academy picks, priority picks for strugglers, the trading of future picks and the introduction of expansion teams and their concessions have thrown the draft out of whack for over a decade now. The AFL needs to come up with a plan based on consistency to get the draft back on track and stick to it, rather than muddying the waters with all these extra picks and bidding systems thrown around willy nilly.

Take it back to pick 1 goes to 18th, pick 18 to 1st for the next 10 years and keep it simple.
Obviously not going to happen because Tassie will be entering in a few years so yet again the whole system is thrown out of whack and compromised.

 

[Sentinel]

Scrapping the ridiculous 20% point discount should be the first thing they do and take no deliberation. I'm yet to hear a reason why it was introduced in the first place.

I think the entire academy system needs to be separated from the clubs. That's not to talk down their importance, particularly the northern academies, but make them AFL run rather than club run and subsequently split them away from any draft incentives (both northern and NGA that is). Would significantly simplify things, which should be the aim given the mess it's become. Ideally F-S too but I strongly doubt that's going anywhere.

Any significant changes should not be introduced until the 2025 draft given clubs are already trading future picks for the 2024 draft, so that should be left alone. Changing the rules for 2024 after future picks have been settled would be a very AFL thing to do though.

 

[RUNVS]

Scrapping the ridiculous 20% point discount should be the first thing they do and take no deliberation. I'm yet to hear a reason why it was introduced in the first place.

I think the entire academy system needs to be separated from the clubs. That's not to talk down their importance, particularly the northern academies, but make them AFL run rather than club run and subsequently split them away from any draft incentives (both northern and NGA that is). Would significantly simplify things, which should be the aim given the mess it's become. Ideally F-S too but I strongly doubt that's going anywhere.

The problem is that the academy system being linked to the Swans is surprisingly important. Not sure about other academies but Sydney have been struggling with NRL clubs poaching our academy players, and the only thing keeping a lot of them in our academy is the idea when they are drafted they would be drafted to Sydney. They may be more likely to simply sign with the NRL club if they think they may get drafted by Fremantle.

 

[Sentinel]

The problem is that the academy system being linked to the Swans is surprisingly important. Not sure about other academies but Sydney have been struggling with NRL clubs poaching our academy players, and the only thing keeping a lot of them in our academy is the idea when they are drafted they would be drafted to Sydney. They may be more likely to simply sign with the NRL club if they think they may get drafted by Fremantle.

That's interesting. The idea being that they don't want to leave the city? Could you possibly then link an academy player to a state rather than a club, giving at least 2 clubs (or as many as 10 in Victoria) a chance to bid rather than it being a free hit of sorts for just one? Would make it a little like the AFLW draft.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

But how would the player trades work?

For example, Port want Esava Ratagolea from Geelong. Port, in 5th place have 2077 points to spend, and Geelong in 12th have 2913 points. Say Geelong ask for 500-600 points, a quarter of Ports capital. Geelong then essentially move from having the 6th or 7th best draft hand, to having the 3rd or 4th best. Is Esava Ratagolea worth an upgrade of Pick 6 to Pick 3?

This is the one problem I see with it. A top side could trade 500 future points for 400 current points and then trade out 3 average players who bring in picks worth 300pts each. They could then realistically outbid the bottom sides for pick 1 with what would’ve just been a heap off poor draft picks in the past.

 

[Milanista28]

That RUNVS system is much better for clubs that finish mid table

 

[RUNVS]

That's interesting. The idea being that they don't want to leave the city? Could you possibly then link an academy player to a state rather than a club, giving at least 2 clubs (or as many as 10 in Victoria) a chance to bid rather than it being a free hit of sorts for just one? Would make it a little like the AFLW draft.

I am guessing so, or at least staying in Sydney is the preference so if a Sydney based NRL club offers them a contract they may be inclined to take it rather than going into the AFL draft and potentially being sent anywhere.

Also perhaps being sent to a NSW club could be a good idea but I am not sure how it would work to be honest.

Just the latest one

SYDNEY Swans Academy member Mitch Woods is the latest gun underage athlete to attract attention from multiple sporting codes around Australia.

The 17-year-old was named in the 2022 under-16 All-Australian team alongside potential top-five picks Levi Ashcroft, Finn O'Sullivan, Jagga Smith and Josh Smillie, but has barely played any football in 2023.

Woods has spent most of this year playing rugby league for the Canterbury Bulldogs in the Harold Matthews Cup – the underage competition for NSW Rugby League – where he has starred at half-back.

It is understood that Canterbury has offered Woods a five-year contract to join the club from next year, with NRL legend and current Bulldogs GM Phil Gould involved in the process to secure his signature.

Woods is also part of the NSW Waratahs underage programs and was included in the Australian under-16 development squad last year, where those at Rugby Australia see him having a bright future in the sport if he heads down that path.

"It [the challenge to compete with the NRL] is real in the New South Wales market. We missed a boy at the start of this year in Navren Willett who went to the West Tigers. We thought he had the potential to play key position. He walked straight into the rugby club, no complications, didn't have to go through a draft."

Cross-code war looms for exciting Sydney Academy teenager

Multi-talented prospect Mitchell Woods has three sports vying for his services

www.afl.com.au

 

[RUNVS]

That RUNVS system is much better for clubs that finish mid table

Thanks. I also think it gives teams a lot more options in how to rebuild. If a team was a young talented team but simply needed older players to help the younger players out a team could use all their points in trading for players. They would not need to worry about not having enough picks in the right range to get these players.

If a team like St Kilda, which has a solid enough list but is lacking in star power wanted they could pool all their points in the draft and go for one big spend, picking up a top draft pick and in theory super talented player.

If West Coast wanted though they could use their points to target Western Australians, they would not need to think about things like "well this WA player is rated 7th in the draft and we have picks 1 and 20" or something like that. They would not need to try and trade for different picks to get in the right range.

Or if a bad team wanted, instead of going for one of the best players in the draft wait a bit, wait until a lot of clubs have completely blown through a lot of their points and then make moves, so instead of picking up a pick 1 player, pick a pick 8, 9, 10 and 15 in the draft, really accelerate bringing in young players into your team which would do so much for a team with a need for a big rebuild than a single pick 1 player would.

I like the idea it gives teams many more options to tailor their own list builds to their own requirements.

 

[Bianconeri]

Hopefully the draft becomes more compromised.

 

[RUNVS]

Hopefully the draft becomes more compromised.

To be honest I am not sure about the rule stating all players with the initials ND should be sent to the Swans in honour of Nick Davis but if the AFL says it is a good idea then I guess we should just go with it.

 

[Bianconeri]

To be honest I am not sure about the rule stating all players with the initials ND should be sent to the Swans in honour of Nick Davis but if the AFL says it is a good idea then I guess we should just go with it.

Should be like the Blakey situation where the player gets to decided. They can choose their current club or the Swans. If the NDs choose the swans the melts will be glorious.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The big advantage of a point system would be FA compo imo.
You could give compensation to players in the top 100 paid in the game. If the contract would make them the 100th top paid player then that’s say 15pts and goes up by 15 for each spot higher they go until the top paid player is worth 1500. Considering that would value the player a lot less then what they are worth the team getting the player should pay the points or atleast a % of it

 

[Caligo]

How exactly do North 'Retain priority access' and why? Why shouldn't the lions have 'retained priority access?'. Whatever that memeans.

This is really easy to solve if you wanted to. If a player is available as a father son, they can join an academy (like blakey did) but can only apply to the draft as an open candidate (like Marc murphy) or a father son but not as an academy player.

In that way blakey could still have gotten the development benefits of playing with an academy but brisbane/North would not have lost out on a potential F/S.

The AFL might make this the rule one day, they might not, but it wouldn't be hard to do.

 

[HairyO]

Short term: No discounts on matching bids, no compensation in the 1st round.

Long term: 4 year contracts for 1st round, 3 year for 2nd round, 2 year for beyond and no matchin in the 1st round. This would need to be in the next CBA.

 

[Mat Mann]

You say the pick/points scale needs drastic fixing. Its complicated enough as it is.

You say that 2 x 2nd round picks dont equate to a top 10 pick. Pick 20 is worth 912 points , pick 21 is worth 878 points. Add that up is 1790 points. Pick 6 alone is worth 1751 points.

Is pick 20 and 21 equate to a pick 6? no. Would pick 20 and 21 equate to a pick 10 or 11? maybe.

you got pick 34 worth 542 points and pick 35 worth 522 points. that amount of points combined is 1066 points. Pick 16 is worth 1067 points. Is 34 and 35 equate to pick 16? unlikely.

that's the point, no club would take two 2nds for a top 10 pick (to actually draft a player), only in points land, where academies and bidding come into to play does this make any sense

what did the dogs pay for pick 4?
what did Melb pay for pick 11?

it wasn't just a few 2nd rounders.

if we want more purity in the 1st round then points need to be adjusted so it's much harder for example GC to take 3 top 10's with a heap of late 2nd rounders/ 3rd/4th round picks

 

[oak79]

Process should be done in following order.

1) FS & Academy nominations
- Clubs must match with next available pick. Used picks are locked in and can not be traded.
- A future pick may be used if there are multiple players for a club to 'match'
2) Free agency & Trade window -
- trade picks / players
- RFA can only move to clubs that finished 7-18. To move to 1-6 must use normal trades.
- No compensation picks (target another free agent instead)
3). National Draft (FS / Academy picks are known beforehand)
4). Pre-season draft

Unrestricted free agents can be signed at anytime during until list is closed.
Priority picks should be rare - a known criteria, and end of 1st or 2nd round as per criteria (no beginning of 1st round).
Veterans - 10% of a 8+ year player's salary is excluded from salary cap to encourage player retention (up to 3 players)

 

[Freomaniac]

that's the point, no club would take two 2nds for a top 10 pick (to actually draft a player), only in points land, where academies and bidding come into to play does this make any sense

what did the dogs pay for pick 4?
what did Melb pay for pick 11?

it wasn't just a few 2nd rounders.

if we want more purity in the 1st round then points need to be adjusted so it's much harder for example GC to take 3 top 10's with a heap of late 2nd rounders/ 3rd/4th round picks

Just find it weird that pick 20 and 21 points wise equates to pick 10.

Sometimes on draft night, you rather pick 20 and 21 over pick 10.

Teams could have picks 22, 30 and 38 could easily be a 1st rounder points wise.

Saying that.... People complained about north Melbourne getting priority picks. They got a late 1st and early 2nd. They traded them both for players.

They could of traded that early 2nd and packaged that up to trade for a mid 1st rounder.

North then got pick 3 as compensation for McKay. That's also debateable too.