Dunstall v Plugger

[HAWKS HEROES]

who was a better player , who shared the footy more and was not shelfish [could have kicked more goals but chose to share them instead], which player was not a thug or was less so [intimidating is different to thug ok].

so what are your thoughts on this ?

 

[Hawkk]

Dunstall had a better defensive game.

That's why I would say Dunstall (biased may come into this conclusion)

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

i say the same and the bias may too come in to my thoughts but i have been talking to someone in regards to this and that also made my mind up on it too Dunstall for me

 

[Hodgie15]

i was biased about this as well, and said dunstall

 

[Hard Ball Get]

who was a better player , who shared the footy more and was not shelfish [could have kicked more goals but chose to share them instead], which player was not a thug or was less so [intimidating is different to thug ok].

so what are your thoughts on this ?

Gee, I wonder who you support!!

 

[dipper86]

Im not biased, so I'll say Lockett because he holds the record.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

Gee, I wonder who you support!!

of course it is the hawks but i am trying to be objective about it if i really thought plugger was better then Dunstall i would say so , to dipper 86 plugger may hold the record but that does not really say whether he is better then dunstall or not as i tried to point out in this post

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4419957&postcount=12

 

[cosby]

someone should post the post that mocca wrote at hhq comparing lockett and dunstall. it was a good read and made some great points about how underated dunstall was in his time and now.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Dunstal had alot of injuries in his time but Plugger had his fair share of suspension....but proballly Plugger

 

[dipper86]

of course it is the hawks but i am trying to be objective about it if i really thought plugger was better then Dunstall i would say so , to dipper 86 plugger may hold the record but that does not really say whether he is better then dunstall or not as i tried to point out in this post

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4419957&postcount=12

I'm saying the diference between the 2 is that Lockett holds the record.
He is the Number 1 goalkicker of all time, in my eyes that makes him marginally better.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Plugger

 

[Catnip]

Lockett. Holds the record and didn't play for a gun side throughout his career like Dunstall did. Tough choice though for the non Saints or Hawks.

 

[celtic_pride]

Plugger ...

 

[Schopp]

Dunstall was severely cut down by injury in his last 5 years. Plugger played on a small SCG that couldnt have been more tailor made for him.

Dunstall was quicker and stronger than Lockett, Lockett probably a more accurate kick although strangely enough Dunstall under pressure became a better kick and is the best i have ever seen under pressure. Look at:
- the 91 gf before quarter time at those two goals he kicked into the stiff breeze against WCE. Hardly anyone scored goals at that end that day. Those goals changed the complexion of the match;
- 92 elimination final against WCE. He kicked one near the end of the game on the wrong side for a right footer from 50 metres with a wet ball.
- 93 elimination final against Adelaide he kicked a very important goal from around 60 metres out after the siren at 3 qtr time. Straight over the umpires head.

I know the last 2 games Hawthorn lost but the goals where kicked under the most severe pressure. I never saw him miss a goal that could have won Hawthorn a game, but saw many he kicked that did win the game for Hawthorn.

Dunstall in his first 10 years averaged 100 goals a season. This is Don Bradman like numbers. If he retired at the end of 94 when he first developed major knee problems then he would probably be remembered as the greatest full forward of all time. In fact I remember Michael Roach writing an article in early 94 explaining why Dunstall was the greatest full forward ever.

Lockett was hampered by not playing in a strong a team as Dunstall but Dunstall had Brereton, Buckenara, Hall to contend with in the forward line as a marking forward for the first half of his career.

I agree that Dunstall shared the ball a lot more.

Lockett will forever be remembered as better by the public in general because total final numbers mean everything in this society but from what i saw in Dunstall in his prime i have no doubt who is the better or in fact the best full forward i have seen.

 

[The Fireman]

Hawk fans try this poll a lot and it always ends in tears.
Plugger was the most awesome player I had seen at the Saints and we will probably never see anything like him again.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

someone should post the post that mocca wrote at hhq comparing lockett and dunstall. it was a good read and made some great points about how underated dunstall was in his time and now.

i tried but it only comes up with one on his appointment of ceo i think it was , it may have been lost when the site went down a month or two ago

 

[Catnip]

Who doesn't rate Dunstall? Dunstall was a champion, certainly us Cat fans can vouch for that but Plugger outpeformed him on the scoresheet despite the fact that when Lockett's career started, the Saints were about as good as Carlton are now.

Hawk fans have mentioned Dunstall's injuries but that is just another tick for Lockett in my view.

 

[Bloods]

Hawk fans try this poll a lot and it always ends in tears.
Plugger was the most awesome player I had seen at the Saints and we will probably never see anything like him again.

Totally agree. He was the best player I'd seen before he even played for my mob. Hawk fans may remember a game in the 80's where plugger blitzed Langford, Mew and numerous others.

Dunstall was a great player but Plugger was a freak of nature to be able to do what he did in predominantly ordinary sides.

 

[cosby]

Dunstall was severely cut down by injury in his last 5 years. Plugger played on a small SCG that couldnt have been more tailor made for him.

Dunstall was quicker and stronger than Lockett, Lockett probably a more accurate kick although strangely enough Dunstall under pressure became a better kick and is the best i have ever seen under pressure. Look at:
- the 91 gf before quarter time at those two goals he kicked into the stiff breeze against WCE. Hardly anyone scored goals at that end that day. Those goals changed the complexion of the match;
- 92 elimination final against WCE. He kicked one near the end of the game on the wrong side for a right footer from 50 metres with a wet ball.
- 93 elimination final against Adelaide he kicked a very important goal from around 60 metres out after the siren at 3 qtr time. Straight over the umpires head.

I know the last 2 games Hawthorn lost but the goals where kicked under the most severe pressure. I never saw him miss a goal that could have won Hawthorn a game, but saw many he kicked that did win the game for Hawthorn.

Dunstall in his first 10 years averaged 100 goals a season. This is Don Bradman like numbers. If he retired at the end of 94 when he first developed major knee problems then he would probably be remembered as the greatest full forward of all time. In fact I remember Michael Roach writing an article in early 94 explaining why Dunstall was the greatest full forward ever.

Lockett was hampered by not playing in a strong a team as Dunstall but Dunstall had Brereton, Buckenara, Hall to contend with in the forward line as a marking forward for the first half of his career.

I agree that Dunstall shared the ball a lot more.

Lockett will forever be remembered as better by the public in general because total final numbers mean everything in this society but from what i saw in Dunstall in his prime i have no doubt who is the better or in fact the best full forward i have seen.

well said.

 

[cosby]

found it. although not all of it.
taken from hhq, posted by Mocca, Tue Oct 21, 2003

Someone's got to fly the flag for number 19.

GH mentions goals per game (5.59, not 5.69, nice try at inflating his figures) as a measurement for the greatness of full forwards. Yes, it's a measurement, not the measurement.

For what it's worth, Dunstall's average is 4.66, none too shabby, especially considering that he shared a fair bit of his career with the sixth highest goal scorer in the club's history.

Get some of these into you:

Achievements
- Captain - 1995-98
- Selected as Forward Pocket in the Hawthorn Team of the Century
- Inducted into the AFL Hall Of Fame - 2002
- Life Member - 1991
- AFL Life Member - 1998
- Club Champion - 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993
- Coleman Medal - 1988, 1989, 1992
- Leading Goalkicker - 1986 (77), 1987 (94), 1988 (132), 1989 (138), 1990 (83), 1991 (82), 1992 (145), 1993 (123), 1994 (101), 1995 (66), 1996 (102), 1998 (54)
- Top 10 Brownlow - 1988 (equal 2nd, 16 votes), 1989 (equal 3rd, 16 votes), 1992 (2nd, 18 votes), 1993 (equal 4th, 16 votes)
- All Australian - 1988 (Full forward), 1989 (Full forward), 1992 (Full forward), 1994 (Forward pocket)
- Australian Football Media Association Most Valuable Player - 1992
AFL Players' Association Most Valuable Player - 1992
- E.J. Whitten Medal - 1989
- Simpson Medal - 1989
- Premierships - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991

Consider those best and fairests: 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993. Then consider these names:

Chris Mew
Andrew Collins
Tony Hall
Gary Ayres
Robert DiPierdomenico
Gary Buckenara
Darren Jarman
Greg Dear
Ben Allan
Michael Tuck
Darrin Pritchard
Dermott Brereton
Chris Langford
Russell Greene
John Kennedy
James Morrissey
John Platten

All of them played in that six-year era, many of them through all of it. Yet through all of that time, Dunstall was the premier player of them all for four of the years, and denied by injury for the other two.

Of the greatest team of all time, Jason Dunstall was the dominant, best and most important player. That speaks volumes for just how good a footballer he was.

Do you know why Hawthorn didn't win the 1987 premiership? Sure, we had a tough game the week before, Carlton were playing for a couple of stricken teammates, and Dermott Brereton was patently unfit, but the single greatest reason we didn't win the flag was because Jason Dunstall was not playing.

In the four Grand Finals he did play:

1986: carved up Bruce Doull, kicked six goals
1988: lazy seven
1989: only four, but an absolutely crucial final quarter goal, look at the body work on Tim Darcy, who is simply spitting chips when Bung outmarks him.
1991: just six, nothing special

23 in four big ones, fair effort. He's got the second-most goals ever in finals, the second most ever in Grand Finals.

Just some other random factoids:

- Most goals by a Hawthorn player, third most ever
- Most centuries by a single player (6, equal with Tony Lockett)
- Second most 10+ goal hauls in a single match (behind only Lockett)

And that only talks about his goalscoring feats. No mention of his greatest attribute - his total team-minded attitude.

Never has there been a more team-orientated full forward. He gave goals away so regularly, so consistently, that he undoubtedly cost himself hundreds of majors throughout his career. If we conservatively allocate him just half a goal per game given away, that gives him an extra 135 majors, which would put him in his rightful place at the head of the all-time goalkickers list.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

found it. although not all of it.
taken from hhq, posted by Mocca, Tue Oct 21, 2003

thanks , i used the search but didn't find it , glad some one did

 

[worthy]

It's always difficult to compare/who's better two champions, a vote for one feels like a smear on the other, and then someone defending one tries to pick faults in the other.
The one thing that will never be said is that either Lockett or Dunstall is overrated, and considering they are both rated very highly this would be a true testament to their greatness.
Very different FF's but i'd prefer Dunstall, that's not saying he's better.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

It's always difficult to compare/who's better two champions, a vote for one feels like a smear on the other, and then someone defending one tries to pick faults in the other.
The one thing that will never be said is that either Lockett or Dunstall is overrated, and considering they are both rated very highly this would be a true testament to their greatness.
Very different FF's but i'd prefer Dunstall, that's not saying he's better.

very well said i reckon you would be right it would be hard to pick the are both champions one way or the other

 

[sydney eagle]

I remember watching them both play for Victoria against South Australia in an interstate match once. As a combination they were awesome ! Dunstall's speed on the lead combined with Plugger's strength in the goalsquare gave the S A defenders nightmares ! Both champions with very different styles.

 

[Wardong]

who was a better player , who shared the footy more and was not shelfish [could have kicked more goals but chose to share them instead], which player was not a thug or was less so [intimidating is different to thug ok].

so what are your thoughts on this ?

True Titans of our game.
Similar stats with only 1 Brownlow vote between them.
Plugger gave away twice as many free kicks as Dunstall, similar goal averages per game, similar accuracy, Dunstall a slightly better mark.
Not much between them except this...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2bIQ0-nCE4?feature=player_detailpage
Probably the most cowardly act committed by an AFL player and unfortunately something that cast a slur on his career.
Therefore Dunstall for me.