Eagles vs Collingwood

[Eagle87]

Crap!.........The National Carnivals were exactly that, a carnival. When's the last time you ever heard anyone other that a Port Adelaide supporter talk about it?

If the WAFL and the SANFL were such great competitive leagues, how come the best West Australians and South Aussies (nd every other state for that matter) came to Victoria to play?

Wayne Carey, Polly Farmer, John Platten, Jason Dunstall, James Hird, Malcom Blight, Peter Hudson, all non-Victorians who chose to leave their home states and play footy in the VFL. Are you suggesting that there was players that were better than these blokes running around in the SANFL and the WAFL?
I'm amazed!! Can you name them?

Better still, can you name 5 non-west Australian champions that left their home states to go and play footy in W.A....remember, they have to be as good as the blokes I've listed.

Waiting with much interest in your reply...

The players you list (apart from Polly) were all 70's or later (and frankly Hird & Carey are mischievous as we could start naming Judd etc)....

There is no doubt the exodus of players in the 70's which accelerated in the 80's was a catalyst for the expansion to the AFL. The reality is this movement of players was not as great in earlier years and as such the gap was lesser. I do concede that merely based on size (of talent pool) alone the VFL was stronger than those other state comps, but the gap between the AFL now and those comps is WAY bigger.

Of course players like Farmer, Cable, Fiztpatrick, Moss etc played substantial parts of their careers in the WAFL and were good players back then (In fact Farmer & Cable & Moss played more WAFL footy than VFL). There are no Farmers, Cables Fiztzi's etc running around at WAFL level after age 18 anymore.

I am not doubting the VFL was the pre-eminent suburban comp most of the time but I am doubting that this gap was as big as you think for much of the years. The reality is many super players never left WA & SA to join the VFL. They all join the AFL now or we dont know who they are.


For the record, I reckon Austin Robertson was a handy player who left Victoria and played in the WAFL and triple sandover medallist Haydn Bunton Snr came to WA int he middle of a reasonably successful VFL career

There are many members of the WA team of the century that did not ever leave WA. That, by definition, had to mean that the WAFL comp was of a pretty high standard - it still remains one of my annoyances that Stephen Michael (Adam Goodes - 25 years before Adam GOODES) never played VFL!

My point remains, any comp that has Australias finest footballer playing in it lays claims to being a good comp (the WAFL with Bunton), the VFL has on average always been the best comp but the argument that a VFL premiership from the 20's or 30's when the best players were distributed accross 3 states is the same as an AFL premiership in the current decade (when all the best players play in that comp) is to either be deliberately argumentative or to be frankly a bit dim.

 

[Eagle87]

Yeah, but I meant before..... lets say.... 1989. Before the national competition existed, back in the days of VFL, WAFL and SANFL only.

That's why I listed Hudson and Polly Farmer etc. Super footballers who could have played in any team in the the country, yet chose to leave their homes and play for little ole suburban Hawthorn or sleepy-hollow Geelong.....I wonder why?

.... and yet you included Hird & Carey!

 

[Aristotel]

The players you list (apart from Polly) were all 70's or later (and frankly Hird & Carey are mischievous as we could start naming Judd etc)....

There is no doubt the exodus of players in the 70's which accelerated in the 80's was a catalyst for the expansion to the AFL. The reality is this movement of players was not as great in earlier years and as such the gap was lesser. I do concede that merely based on size (of talent pool) alone the VFL was stronger than those other state comps, but the gap between the AFL now and those comps is WAY bigger.

Of course players like Farmer, Cable, Fiztpatrick, Moss etc played substantial parts of their careers in the WAFL and were good players back then (In fact Farmer & Cable & Moss played more WAFL footy than VFL). There are no Farmers, Cables Fiztzi's etc running around at WAFL level after age 18 anymore.

I am not doubting the VFL was the pre-eminent suburban comp most of the time but I am doubting that this gap was as big as you think for much of the years. The reality is many super players never left WA & SA to join the VFL. They all join the AFL now or we dont know who they are.


For the record, I reckon Austin Robertson was a handy player who left Victoria and played in the WAFL and triple sandover medallist Haydn Bunton Snr came to WA int he middle of a reasonably successful VFL career

There are many members of the WA team of the century that did not ever leave WA. That, by definition, had to mean that the WAFL comp was of a pretty high standard - it still remains one of my annoyances that Stephen Michael (Adam Goodes - 25 years before Adam GOODES) never played VFL!

My point remains, any comp that has Australias finest footballer playing in it lays claims to being a good comp (the WAFL with Bunton), the VFL has on average always been the best comp but the argument that a VFL premiership from the 20's or 30's when the best players were distributed accross 3 states is the same as an AFL premiership in the current decade (when all the best players play in that comp) is to either be deliberately argumentative or to be frankly a bit dim.

O.K. but in 1930, Perth was slightly bigger than modern day Ballarat or Bendigo ( roughly 100,000 people). The bigger, better clubs have always been based in and around Melbourne (until now). That's why VFL premerships, even ones from 75years ago matter....

Otherwise I thought your post was excellent. Good luck on Satdee nite.

 

[Firestorm]

No problem with your state of flux argument but surely taking stats from amateur suburbam leagues and mixing them with fully professional national leagues with drafts and salary caps is fraught.

Those "amateur suburban teams" were in the guiness book of records for largest attendances in the world per head of capita for most of the last century, beating all other professional national leagues in the world, including soccer, rugby, gridiron, baseball and cricket

Make no mistake, this is the same competition with a few extra teams

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Make no mistake, this is the same competition with a few extra teams

No it is not. Im sure when a Victorian Team wins back the GF we can consider the transformation near complete. Who cares we only did this because all the comps were loosing money and to our benifit look at rugby stuck as a Sydney relivent sport.

 

[Firestorm]

No it is not. Im sure when a Victorian Team wins back the GF we can consider the transformation near complete. Who cares we only did this because all the comps were loosing money and to our benifit look at rugby stuck as a Sydney relivent sport.

Funny how only interstaters dispute this fact

 

[kane249]

Crap!.........The National Carnivals were exactly that, a carnival. When's the last time you ever heard anyone other that a Port Adelaide supporter talk about it?

If the WAFL and the SANFL were such great competitive leagues, how come the best West Australians and South Aussies (nd every other state for that matter) came to Victoria to play?

Wayne Carey, Polly Farmer, John Platten, Jason Dunstall, James Hird, Malcom Blight, Peter Hudson, all non-Victorians who chose to leave their home states and play footy in the VFL. Are you suggesting that there was players that were better than these blokes running around in the SANFL and the WAFL?
I'm amazed!! Can you name them?

Better still, can you name 5 non-west Australian champions that left their home states to go and play footy in W.A....remember, they have to be as good as the blokes I've listed.

Waiting with much interest in your reply...

I can name you one off the top of my head

Hadyn Bunton Senior, won 3 Brownlows, moved to WA and won 3 Sandovers

 

[Firestorm]

I can name you one off the top of my head

Hadyn Bunton Senior, won 3 Brownlows, moved to WA and won 3 Sandovers

They were called carnivals because it was the only way to include you clowns in the best league in the land

 

[kane249]

They were called carnivals because it was the only way to include you clowns in the best league in the land

Hang on you, asked for a champion not from WA who moved to WA

I just gave you a triple brownlow medalist who left the VFL to then go and play in the WAFL

Don't get ****ty at me just because i more then met your criteria

 

[Firestorm]

Hang on you, asked for a champion not from WA who moved to WA

I just gave you a triple brownlow medalist who left the VFL to then go and play in the WAFL

Don't get ****ty at me just because i more then met your criteria

I was only having some fun, but the fact remains this is still the same competition as the VFL, one day there will be 3 to 4 teams in each state, does this invalidate the current competition? Of course not

 

[The Majestic]

Apart from Tasmania there is no way we could have 3 to 4 teams, we'd barely have one team.

 

[sydney eagle]

Could we all zip our trousers up, stop the "mine's bigger than yours !" contest and talk about the upcoming game this weekend ? I think this game should be a beauty ( I was going to say "should be a sellout" but that would hardly be unexpected !)

 

[Firestorm]

should be a sellout

Do we play any other kind?

 

[Eagle87]

Do we play any other kind?

Actually yes, the vast majority of your games are not sellouts, despite being local derbys most weeks.

Really quite poor.

West Coast on the other hand have had home game sellouts every game in each of the last 3 years.

 

[Firestorm]

West Coast on the other hand have had home game sellouts every game in each of the last 3 years.

Yeah thats pretty easy when your home ground holds 3 people

 

[Keys]

Yeah thats pretty easy when your home ground holds 3 people

And each one of those three has more football knowlege than the whole Collingwood army combined .

 

[Firestorm]

And each one of those three has more football knowlege than the whole Collingwood army combined .

And I'm sure at least one of them knows how to spell knowledge

 

[Keys]

And I'm sure at least one of them knows how to spell knowledge

Oh well. Its late, what can I say

 

[MrAaron]

Does anyone give collingwood a chance against the mighty eagles this weekend?
I can not seriously see how collingwood can get within 5 goals to us.
Collingwood have one of the slowest midfields - we have one of the fastest
We have the best backline and they have a weak forward line.

This may turn into a masacure.

Any collingwood people silly enough to waste their money on a bet?

ready for pie on your face ? How about Port beating Fremantle ? Essendon beating Adealide ?

 

[sydney eagle]

So the answer to my request is "no" then ? Pity !

 

[Macpie]

Does anyone give collingwood a chance against the mighty eagles this weekend?
I can not seriously see how collingwood can get within 5 goals to us.
Collingwood have one of the slowest midfields - we have one of the fastest
We have the best backline and they have a weak forward line.

This may turn into a masacure.

Any collingwood people silly enough to waste their money on a bet?

yeah i agree eagles should win comfortably

i also believe that you are a front running knob head who was unsighted in here any time other than when your team was at its strongest. I like the eagles and understand that all clubs have a-hole supporters. if a miracle happens - i'll be in touch

 

[duncan]

if a miracle happens - i'll be in touch

Wouldn`t expect any different - so will the rest of Big Footy.

 

[GoldenSky]

So where does history begin and end?

The competition has always been in a state of constant change and constant improvement. Not just the last 20years, anyone who thinks this is being naive.

Remember only 8 teams founded the original VFL. University eventually folded and Footscray, Hawthorn and North Melbourne joined much later at various stages. So does that mean all VFL history prior to these 'new' teams joining is irrelevant?...Of course not, because a VFL/AFL premiership is still an award for excellence; no matter when it was won. To win it you needed to be the best football team in this country. The old VFL may have been state-based, but it was still the 'premier league' for Aussie Rules.

Clubs have relocated, clubs have merged and new clubs have joined in the years since, and the AFL will continue to change.

So using you logic Eagle87, does that mean in 20 years when the AFL has expanded and Power-house clubs in New Zealand and Asia are winning premierships, the West Coast's 3 flags mean nothing because they were won in the 'old AFL system' that was limited to teams in one country only?....think about it.
Hawthorn thought they were God's gift to football in 1989 too. Now look at them!

The Collingwood Football Club has been able to maintain its intensity and iconic image (whilst winning 14 flags and having the hightest winning % of any team...60.4%) for over 100years, the real measure of success for clubs like the Eagles will be to see if they can do the same.

Fantastic post, and exactly my thoughts too.

The whole argument that 'the VFL doesn't count' is just crap. The game will always evolve and change, and to throw away the history of it at every point of change is just stupid.