Embarrassed

[King_snow]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143139/default.aspx

I as a very big supporter am also embarrassed, we just need to pull our heads in. I know we have a lot of kids but look at Melbourne and Port, they know they don't really have the team to win but they go out there and give it there all.

IMO some players really need to pull there head in and start playing some serious footy. I noticed during the saints that when they got the ball 9 times out of 10 we just dropped our heads and let them just run off with our ball. This brings me to the point that not only do we need to get our team playing AFL level football but we also need a team that doesn't drop its head. An example is Sherman, when things are down you'd be lucky to see him run 100m worth for the rest of the game, Howard does this and so does Gia. And MC i think needs to re think the game plan, when we are losing we can't just slow down and start playing defensive with little 'safe' chips around the ground! our team doesn't have the foot skills or marking to keep it up. Thoughts?

 

[inyourfacedunk]

"McCartney said that in the 76-point loss to St Kilda on Sunday, some of his players had been "a bit safe" with the ball and hadn't been prepared to "take the game on" for fear of making mistakes."


I like how this has been made a point of. I also think it's lame how people crucify a player like Veszpermi, saying he isn't up to AFL standard because he makes mistakes even though he was one of the only players who did try and take the game on on the weekend. I wonder why there is a fear of making mistakes?

 

[dogwatch]

Daniel Cross never drops his head... except to put it over the ball.

Despite being one-paced and his lack of kicking penetration he's a great role model and he'll be missed. Pleased to see Macca say "he'll be back". I just hope he means as a player! Deserves another season and we'll need him, as the OP implies, even if he doesn't play every game in 2013.

 

[doggies ftw]

Good to see JJ is 'certain' to play in the next two weeks, lets hope its this week!

 

[acker]

"McCartney said that in the 76-point loss to St Kilda on Sunday, some of his players had been "a bit safe" with the ball and hadn't been prepared to "take the game on" for fear of making mistakes."


I like how this has been made a point of. I also think it's lame how people crucify a player like Veszpermi, saying he isn't up to AFL standard because he makes mistakes even though he was one of the only players who did try and take the game on on the weekend. I wonder why there is a fear of making mistakes?

Veszpremi is at club number 2 and is not a kid, he enjoys the football lifestyle and pay check - scrutiny by supporters comes with it

 

[inyourfacedunk]

I understand what you are saying, but I think you missed my point.

Players like Vez and Easton Wood get crucified when they take the game on and get caught. It could be anyone. Even Griffin used to cop flack when he would try to break the lines and shank the ball or get caught.

When players cop it from "supporters" for trying to do something that the supporters want so badly, but fail, it would create doubts in players minds. Think about it. What's the point of putting yourself out there only to be criticised if you fail. May as well do what everyone else in the team is doing and play it safe. Rack up some easy stats but don't create anything worth while. At least then you wont stand out enough for people to call you rubbish.

 

[josh the gent]

Veszpremi is at club number 2 and is not a kid, he enjoys the football lifestyle and pay check - scrutiny by supporters comes with it

Agreed, Veszpremi shouldn't escape scrutiny.

However I think we need to give him a decent run of games in the starting XXI before we pass too harsh a judgement. I think he will offer plenty as a half-back, and whilst some of his output against St Kilda didn't produce the end outcome we want, he is prepared to show some dash which is the attitude we are looking for off our HBF.

Worth perserveering with.

 

[Rookie]

Vez was prepared to kick the ball longIan's straight -I didn't see much else of that on Sunday.

 

[Fossie 32]

Sherman hasn't played for a while so not a great example

 

[dogzrule]

given he was bog for Willi last week he will probably get another go this week, maybe he has finally got it !!

 

[dogwatch]

given he was bog for Willi last week he will probably get another go this week, maybe he has finally got it !!

I certainly don't mind giving him another (last?) chance but if I were BM I'd say "I need to see you play like that 2-3 weeks in a row before I'll even think of putting you back in the seniors after those insipid efforts last time you were there."

I'll be disappointed if they throw him straight back in this week.
It's a shame that Willi have a bye again.

 

[VitalDread]

i'm glad Macca came out and said this, he should really do a Voss and being the axe down on players that he has given them chances to get used to his game style, and if they don't want to play his style, play VFL or get delisted.

 

[TMoney22]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned Grant yet. He is the worst offender, not only hanging his head he gives up. No matter how much talent a player can have, they will never reach anywhere near their potential with that shit attitude

 

[Dogs Rule]

So glad the word embarrassed was used by McCartney. Ashamed, disgraced, disgusted were others that could have been thrown in the mix.

If I didn't know better I would think we were tanking. In reality, we're just stink.

In 2003-04, we were having a crack and at one stage were called the "best side to be on the bottom of the ladder". I vividly remember a radio interview with Rohan Smith, after an eighth straight loss, where he started to break up. There is a man that bleed for the jumper - apart from a certain few, I doubt many of our current crop would show as much emotion or even give a stuff.

 

[Butane]

In 2003-04, we were having a crack and at one stage were called the "best side to be on the bottom of the ladder". I vividly remember a radio interview with Rohan Smith, after an eighth straight loss, where he started to break up. There is a man that bleed for the jumper - apart from a certain few, I doubt many of our current crop would show as much emotion or even give a stuff.

If this was a television show and we were in a court of a law I'd yell out 'objection your honour, speculation!' the judge would then say 'sustained'. Then I would sit down smugly while you continue to go red in the face and wipe beads of sweat away from your receding hairline.

 

[Easty]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned Grant yet. He is the worst offender, not only hanging his head he gives up. No matter how much talent a player can have, they will never reach anywhere near their potential with that shit attitude

Tried very hard in a new role on the weekend. The worse thing about supporters is that they form an opinion on a player and then stick to it regards of what the players actual output is.

Grant suffers from it - So does Vesz, Sherman, Gia, Higgins etc.

 

[TMoney22]

Tried very hard in a new role on the weekend. The worse thing about supporters is that they form an opinion on a player and then stick to it regards of what the players actual output is.
Grant suffers from it - So does Vesz, Sherman, Gia, Higgins etc.

This is my point. He did try hard. I thought he was playing pretty good when moved to the back line. But in the last quarter i remember 2 occasions when he gave up chasing and let Wilkes fly for a mark. He was strolling in the background and didnt give a stuff. There is no excuse for that shit, no matter what stage of a game. This is why i have my doubts about it. Yes he has talent which i'd love to see more often. Seriously he does it all the time, thats why people stick to an opinion. YOu can't blame them for that

 

[Dogs Rule]

If this was a television show and we were in a court of a law I'd yell out 'objection your honour, speculation!' the judge would then say 'sustained'. Then I would sit down smugly while you continue to go red in the face and wipe beads of sweat away from your receding hairline.

I'm in stitches. I won't try to be a tosser, but I would then ask you to explain to me how a side with the experience of Murphy, Lake, Giansiracusa, Cross, Boyd, Gilbee, Griffen, Higgins (until last week) and Minson can lose 7 of its past 8 with an average losing margin of 64 points?

This was the core of a side that made three preliminary finals just two years ago. I'll continue to buy a membership every year, but don't tell me you enjoy watching the crap we've served up in the past two months.

Yes, we have a side with a lot of kids, but great leaders step up and grab games by the scruff of the neck. Last week, we surrended and got blown away.

 

[VitalDread]

Tried very hard in a new role on the weekend. The worse thing about supporters is that they form an opinion on a player and then stick to it regards of what the players actual output is.

Agreed, i think i'm and a few people are really the only ones that back Grant, as i said last season, he is our Jack Watts, needs to play the backline and lose to intercept the ball etc.

 

[Butane]

I'm in stitches. I won't try to be a tosser, but I would then ask you to explain to me how a side with the experience of Murphy, Lake, Giansiracusa, Cross, Boyd, Gilbee, Griffen, Higgins (until last week) and Minson can lose 7 of its past 8 with an average losing margin of 64 points?

But you had Daniel Cross literally is tears. What more emotion do you want? There is more to winning games of AFL then just tryin' really hard and caring heaps...

Guys like Gia, Murphy, Lake, Gilbee and Boyd were all around last time we were shit as well and they dug deep and helped us climb the ladder. To accuse them of not caring is really surprising in that case - wouldn't it be the younger brigade that have to prove they care as much as the players you've mentioned?

We're all frustrated supporters but I think we can be a little smarter then just assuming they aren't trying hard enough.

 

[Dogs Rule]

But you had Daniel Cross literally is tears. What more emotion do you want? There is more to winning games of AFL then just tryin' really hard and caring heaps...

Guys like Gia, Murphy, Lake, Gilbee and Boyd were all around last time we were shit as well and they dug deep and helped us climb the ladder. To accuse them of not caring is really surprising in that case - wouldn't it be the younger brigade that have to prove they care as much as the players you've mentioned?

We're all frustrated supporters but I think we can be a little smarter then just assuming they aren't trying hard enough.

Cross wears his heart on his sleeve, works his guts out and we all love him for that.

Look, perhaps I'm being too harsh saying they don't care enough, I just can't understand how a side with all that experience can get repeatedly smashed week after week. It boggles the mind how uncompetitive we've been of late.

We are all frustrated and like everybody else I'm just looking for answers as to why this season has turned into such a monumental train wreck. We were once one of the most skilled teams in the comp and a lot of those skilled players are still in the team, so what's happened?

 

[Igloo]

Cross wears his heart on his sleeve, works his guts out and we all love him for that.

Look, perhaps I'm being too harsh saying they don't care enough, I just can't understand how a side with all that experience can get repeatedly smashed week after week. It boggles the mind how uncompetitive we've been of late.

We are all frustrated and like everybody else I'm just looking for answers as to why this season has turned into such a monumental train wreck. We were once one of the most skilled teams in the comp and a lot of those skilled players are still in the team, so what's happened?

It's got very little to do with the senior players. It's the enormous gulf in ages between the majority of the side. We have the older guys, then we have Griffen, Williams, Higgins, who are all definite best 22 (left out Cooney - obvious reasons) and then a whole heap of young guys. The young ones haven't played enough football altogether, let alone as a cohesive unit.
It's no surprise we start off games alright, then by the end we don't give a yelp. Almost half our team (young) are stuffed by then.

It'll take a couple of years, but it will be alright.

 

[TMoney22]

It's got very little to do with the senior players. It's the enormous gulf in ages between the majority of the side. We have the older guys, then we have Griffen, Williams, Higgins, who are all definite best 22 (left out Cooney - obvious reasons) and then a whole heap of young guys. The young ones haven't played enough football altogether, let alone as a cohesive unit.
It's no surprise we start off games alright, then by the end we don't give a yelp. Almost half our team (young) are stuffed by then.

It'll take a couple of years, but it will be alright.

I reckon its still gonna hurt even when our young guys are a few years older. To be successful not only do you need your guns in their prime but also very good veterans. Yes Griff will be one of those who'll probably be a great player til 30. But Williams won't be any better than an average player and Higgins who knows.
I think that gap which we are lacking now will haunt us for a while longer than we all think.
In the past we have always had good players well into 28, 29 30's.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

I reckon its still gonna hurt even when our young guys are a few years older. To be successful not only do you need your guns in their prime but also very good veterans. Yes Griff will be one of those who'll probably be a great player til 30. But Williams won't be any better than an average player and Higgins who knows.
I think that gap which we are lacking now will haunt us for a while longer than we all think.
In the past we have always had good players well into 28, 29 30's.

Agree, the fact that Williams is going to be considered a pillar of the team is a concern to me. He has been a disaster as a selection for a high draft pick.
No matter which way you paint it, he has been a monumental dud. Not his fault, he is judged harshly by me because he was a high draft pick. that opinion won't change.
He has no basic fluidity or feel for the game, he is injury prone and just doesn't do enough even in his 'not bad' games.
A pick that should have been in the 30-60 category.

 

[Butane]

Agree, the fact that Williams is going to be considered a pillar of the team is a concern to me. He has been a disaster as a selection for a high draft pick.
No matter which way you paint it, he has been a monumental dud. Not his fault, he is judged harshly by me because he was a high draft pick. that opinion won't change.
He has no basic fluidity or feel for the game, he is injury prone and just doesn't do enough even in his 'not bad' games.
A pick that should have been in the 30-60 category.

There were was not even close to 30 players better then Williams in that draft let alone 60! Other clubs, some with millions more dollars to spend on recruiters picked Meeson, Russell, Thomson, Meyer, Egan, Bate, Dunn, Pattinson, McQualter with their FIRST picks.(and don't forget Tambling at pick 2)

Williams has a lot to prove but he's better then what the other clubs got with their first roll of the dice(or years of recruiting)

Let's not make things up to spit on the club. We have enough things to criticise the team for already that don't involve making things up.