Essendon Captain 2008 on

[Fraz]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good? We could have Lloyd up in the foward line while having someone else in the midfield or backline.

No, no and another big no.
Do you think that Fletch and Mal don't show leadership in the backline because they're not captains? Do you think Hirdy (can't bring myself to regard him as a former player just yet!) and Spike don't show leadership in the middle just because they're not captains?

As for the original question, Lloyd will and should be captain in 2008. From reports he's been instrumental in turning the club around off-field

Have just been reading Hirdys book - Reading The Play - and this is what he had to say on Lloydy's captaincy:
"Matthew Lloyd had been vice-captain for five seasons. He was ready, willing and able, liked and respected by the p[layers, a genuine superstar of the game and one of the most dedicated professionals I've ever met. Succession wasn't a problem, as Sheedy had often noted...
"He's brought a lot more discipline into the place, which is exactly what we needed with our young group. The captaincy has also brought Lloydy out of his shell, which is good....
"It's been said that it's difficult to captain from full forward, because you're usually too far away from the heat of the action to be able to give direction...I don't think it's a problem. The reality is that when you're not telling everyone what to do. There are leaders all over the place. I had strong back-up when I was captain - from Dean Wallis, Sean Wellman, Lloydy, Scotty Lucas and Darren Bewick."

 

[retroparty]

No, no and another big no.
Do you think that Fletch and Mal don't show leadership in the backline because they're not captains? Do you think Hirdy (can't bring myself to regard him as a former player just yet!) and Spike don't show leadership in the middle just because they're not captains?

As for the original question, Lloyd will and should be captain in 2008. From reports he's been instrumental in turning the club around off-field

Have just been reading Hirdys book - Reading The Play - and this is what he had to say on Lloydy's captaincy:
"Matthew Lloyd had been vice-captain for five seasons. He was ready, willing and able, liked and respected by the p[layers, a genuine superstar of the game and one of the most dedicated professionals I've ever met. Succession wasn't a problem, as Sheedy had often noted...
"He's brought a lot more discipline into the place, which is exactly what we needed with our young group. The captaincy has also brought Lloydy out of his shell, which is good....
"It's been said that it's difficult to captain from full forward, because you're usually too far away from the heat of the action to be able to give direction...I don't think it's a problem. The reality is that when you're not telling everyone what to do. There are leaders all over the place. I had strong back-up when I was captain - from Dean Wallis, Sean Wellman, Lloydy, Scotty Lucas and Darren Bewick."

Yeh, your probably right

 

[OzBomber]

as i said earlier, i reckon McVeigh would be gold! He loves the club, he is now very disciplined and mature. He is in the best 22 week in week out, has a strong media profile and the younger players look up to him. he is also a long term captaincy prospect, not like the others named. I reckon he would relish the role of being the onfield leader of the club.

Not all the time. Sometimes he can go over the top and give away crappy frees.

 

[drew_j]

I would like to see someone other than Lloyd captain in the long run because I'd just like to see Lloyd focus on kicking big bags. It's not that he doesn't do the motivational speaches, the work around the club etc need to be a bloody good captain, cos he does and does it well. I'm just not sure that his awesome best is being curtailed by his lay off from injury, the distrcation from captancy (he's a man who is ruled by routine) or most likely the fact our mids keep kicking over his head, but still used to kick 2-3 even on a bad day not so long ago. One more year for mine to see if he can hit some form and captain. Also wouldn't want to screw with his confidence just yet if it was taken off him, becasue as a pure leader, he deserves it.

 

[red+black]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good?

Personally I wish the AFL would introduce a rule that all clubs must nominate one captain, one vice-captain and one deputy-vice-captain by say December 1, and any club that doesn't be fined $5000 every day until they do.

Having 2, 3 or 5 (****ing stupid Brisbane) captains is utter bullshit.

 

[FandangoDingo]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

These kind of acts are NOT the acts of a great leader. He even seems to be getting back to his old "diving" ways, or at least seems to again be struggling to keep his feet during contests. He also does the Fevola-esque look towards the umpire when the ball's still there to be won and he gives away far too many easy free-kicks when he's trying to "assert" himself on a game, but does it crudely.

There's isn't an obvious replacement at Windy Hill right now, but I don't think he's the Captain I'd hoped he might become.

I think he also wears his shorts far too migh to be a great leader! C'mon Harry High Pants!!!

 

[RyderFahey]

Matty lloyd has been one of the main reasons we are stating to turn things around he wanted to get rid of cupido and zantuck he is a awesem captain and everyone you hear that has an involvement with the club says he is a great captain

 

[FandangoDingo]

Matty lloyd has been one of the main reasons we are stating to turn things around he wanted to get rid of cupido and zantuck he is a awesem captain and everyone you hear that has an involvement with the club says he is a great captain

Who else could have picked Zantuck as a dud???

 

[Country_Boy_12]

i just dont think lloyd can motivate the team like hird and other captains could. i say mcveigh captain for 08

 

[Margim]

One and a half seasons of reasonable discipline doesn't all of a sudden make someone worthy captain material. McVeigh might be playing okay, but still isn't the kind of guy I'd want as the face of Essendon FC.

 

[GoDons]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

These kind of acts are NOT the acts of a great leader. He even seems to be getting back to his old "diving" ways, or at least seems to again be struggling to keep his feet during contests. He also does the Fevola-esque look towards the umpire when the ball's still there to be won and he gives away far too many easy free-kicks when he's trying to "assert" himself on a game, but does it crudely.

There's isn't an obvious replacement at Windy Hill right now, but I don't think he's the Captain I'd hoped he might become.

I think he also wears his shorts far too migh to be a great leader! C'mon Harry High Pants!!!

I think you might need to look back at a tape of the 2002 Grand Final.

There's some pretty famous footage of Voss giving to Scott Burns which is certainly no better than anything Lloyd's done.

I certainly don't have a problem with him giving it to Setanta O'hAilpin or anyone for that matter. It shows passion, intensity and competitiveness. Sets an example for some of the drifters we have in the side.

He's had a few moments where he's looked at the umpire this year and they haven't been good. However, he's more than made up for those incidents with strong attack on the football and the man, assertive leadership and team play.

 

[Fraz]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

And Sir James once called Sheeds a "c--t" out on the field. So what? Those kinds of things happen in the heat of the moment. People keep complaining that the players are becoming like robots yet when they show passion they get bagged.
On a more serious side, Leigh Matthews remains the only player to be investigated by the police for an incident on a football field.

 

[Longy413]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

Like eye gouge?

Or have an onfield matter end up in court?

Or get suspended for 9 (stand to be corrected) weeks?

Or belt a bloke in a pub (allegedly)?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I'd like to take a punt on a younger guy for the captaincy after Lloyd, so someone like Angus Monfries would be right in the mix. He'll play in the midfield and is one of our "harder" youngsters, doesn't play soft. MVeigh for mine is a bit too old, as I want someone u25.

 

[The_Young_Gun]

I'd like to take a punt on a younger guy for the captaincy after Lloyd, so someone like Angus Monfries would be right in the mix. He'll play in the midfield and is one of our "harder" youngsters, doesn't play soft. MVeigh for mine is a bit too old, as I want someone u25.

Angus is pretty much made for essendon but still not ready. We have only just started sealing him into the midfield so after mady a year and a half after he's settled in he could be a real contender for the captainsy, but right now the best man for the job is Matty Lloyd and we shouldn't even been thinking of stripping him of captainsy because this has turned the club around from been like carlton in their last 4 terrible years. Even Look what lloyd has done this year, last year we only won 3 games (I can't remember) and this year with him actually playing, been the leader of our group on the field, we have won 10 out of 22 games but things had gone a bit downhill after round 15 against geelong, from injuries and some pretty stupid suspensions, which in a way is a good thing because how would have we gone with no injuries or anything at all, we could even be top four, but knowing essendon anything could have happened.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yep, like I said after Lloyd (so I assume about 3 years), Angus should be ready by then.

 

[Pumper Rubberfunk]

........... LOYLD, LOYLD, LOYLD then it will be Jobe Watson in 2011.........

 

[Longy413]

........... LOYLD, LOYLD, LOYLD then it will be Jobe Watson in 2011.........

You had three chances to get it right...

 

[FandangoDingo]

I think you might need to look back at a tape of the 2002 Grand Final.

There's some pretty famous footage of Voss giving to Scott Burns which is certainly no better than anything Lloyd's done.

I certainly don't have a problem with him giving it to Setanta O'hAilpin or anyone for that matter. It shows passion, intensity and competitiveness. Sets an example for some of the drifters we have in the side.

He's had a few moments where he's looked at the umpire this year and they haven't been good. However, he's more than made up for those incidents with strong attack on the football and the man, assertive leadership and team play.

Brisbane WON the 2002 Grand Final. The disrespectful acts I mentioned were both turning points in games against Carlton that we should have won, but we lost. There is a key difference. Please watch back the Rd 3 incident with Setanta again and then tell me that was about passion and intensity! What a crock!! It was weak, childish and disrespectful and came back to bite us!

I remember being embarrassed at the time. Even though we were so far in front at the time, I said to my girlfriend that it reminded me of when Gary Moorcroft clapped his hand in Craig bradley's face in the '99 Prelim final, and we famously got rolled. Moorcroft allegedly said: "You'll never catch us now" as the Bombers kicked well clear. Well guess what? They did catch us and it cost us a premiership! And the Blues did the same in R3 this year after Lloyd disrespected them.

I don't doubt Lloyd's passion for the club or competitiveness for the win. I think he's an amazing footballer and have always have him in my Dreamteam... But it's just his leadership and maturity that still has a question mark hanging over it, IMHO. Would be thrilled to be proven wrong in 2008!!

 

[FandangoDingo]

Like eye gouge?

Or have an onfield matter end up in court?

Or get suspended for 9 (stand to be corrected) weeks?

Or belt a bloke in a pub (allegedly)?

All are more preferable than your skipper clapping in the face of an opposition player like a 10 year old spoilt brat! Fairdinkum. Watch the R3 incident back Longy and tell me I'm wrong.

 

[buffalopride]

i know it dosn't affect me but... whats bout damien pevrill? in 10 of his matches he had 25 plus disposals, he had 4 games under 20 disposals mostly 17's and averaged around 24 per game...... he is of right age i think 28 a good mature age still got years left in him....... ?

 

[Longy413]

All are more preferable than your skipper clapping in the face of an opposition player like a 10 year old spoilt brat! Fairdinkum. Watch the R3 incident back Longy and tell me I'm wrong.

See, I actually like to see arrogance in a footballer.

What's different between doing that and him saying "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" to Nicholson in 2000?

The only difference is we won in the GF and everyone sits back and goes "hey that was great, that's funny" but we lost in Rd3 so all of a sudden it becomes embarrassing and a poor effort.

I like the whole "I'm better than you thing" and I think it's part of what makes champion players.

Belting a bloke behind play and ending up in court is better than having a genuine belief that you are better than your opponent and letting him know is better how?

 

[Smyth94]

God some people are quick to stick the knives out. At Essendon we've been blessed over the past 20 years, we've had TD, Bomber, O'Donnell, Hird and now Lloyd as our captains.

People also seem to have short memories. I can recall a lot of Essendon supporters questioning James Hird's captaincy when he was going through his stress fractures, it was well documented.

Before Lloydy snapped his hammy early last year the everyone including the media was blowing there load on how great a captain Lloydy was going to become and now because of a few small incidents he becomes the villain. 60+ goals coming back from a whole year of no footy is exceptional for a 29-30 year old player.

Don't harp on the small instances where he did lose his cool and acted selfishly. Lloyd cares about this club more than anyone I have seen and he wears his heart on his sleeve. He will learn to stop looking at the umps I'm sure he's been spoken to. He will also become a great captain.

 

[FandangoDingo]

See, I actually like to see arrogance in a footballer.

What's different between doing that and him saying "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" to Nicholson in 2000?

The only difference is we won in the GF and everyone sits back and goes "hey that was great, that's funny" but we lost in Rd3 so all of a sudden it becomes embarrassing and a poor effort.

I like the whole "I'm better than you thing" and I think it's part of what makes champion players.

Belting a bloke behind play and ending up in court is better than having a genuine belief that you are better than your opponent and letting him know is better how?

It's a pretty big difference Longy! Winning a preimership after dropping just one game all year..... Versus losing from 7 goals up to a team vying for another round of priority picks!! You'd have a reason to be arrogant and could back it up with action.

But more to the point, I think the "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" was a great comment to get inside an opponents head. It's a big stretch to compare that with Lloyd's ten year-old's carry-on in R3.

Please, Longy, go and watch the R3 incident and tell me that's what you want your skipper doing. I'm not saying he doesn't have a lot of great attributes, but he has to get that sort of stuff out of his game. He looked like a goose at the time and an even bigger goose when we got rolled. I just really hope he's learned from it.

 

[GoDons]

Brisbane WON the 2002 Grand Final. The disrespectful acts I mentioned were both turning points in games against Carlton that we should have won, but we lost. There is a key difference. Please watch back the Rd 3 incident with Setanta again and then tell me that was about passion and intensity! What a crock!! It was weak, childish and disrespectful and came back to bite us!

I remember being embarrassed at the time. Even though we were so far in front at the time, I said to my girlfriend that it reminded me of when Gary Moorcroft clapped his hand in Craig bradley's face in the '99 Prelim final, and we famously got rolled. Moorcroft allegedly said: "You'll never catch us now" as the Bombers kicked well clear. Well guess what? They did catch us and it cost us a premiership! And the Blues did the same in R3 this year after Lloyd disrespected them.

I don't doubt Lloyd's passion for the club or competitiveness for the win. I think he's an amazing footballer and have always have him in my Dreamteam... But it's just his leadership and maturity that still has a question mark hanging over it, IMHO. Would be thrilled to be proven wrong in 2008!!

How is an arrogant action defined by winning and losing?

Voss disrespected Burns in 2002, Lloyd disrespected O'hAilpin in round 3. The fact is that they both did the same thing.

Given that there is no such thing as 'good' and 'bad' disrespect, there is no correlation between disrepectful acts and the result of a match.