Essendon saga could see government inquiry: (Update 3/3: Gov says No inquiry)

[Satan]

Seems so

From Caros article few days back

"Hal Hunter, the player who demanded via legal channels to see medical files documenting the drugs he was given by Essendon, is understood to have now cut all official and legal ties with the club in a settlement approved in court early on Wednesday. "

One hopes in ? Years down the track that these confidential agreements dont explode in the participants faces. When this saga started many posters with medical backgrounds were concerned about the effects on players and possible children in regard to what the players took and with what . The lack of proper records??? is staggering and those responsible
have avoided punishment. The players got suspended for not being honest to the testers. Efc got fined by government authorities and paid out hush (insurers)money to the players . Dank never had to front a court witness box. The essendon team officials pretty much avoided penalty (not withstanding Hirds mental state ). The club doctor is still there . Robinson got a payoff and a cushy job in the Afls auditor.
Hamilton is still in afl system. Hird got a paid year to study in Paris and was paid out twice.
You could do a movie on this but this has already discussed on one of the many buried threads in past 4 years .

 

[avignon]

One hopes in ? Years down the track that these confidential agreements dont explode in the participants faces. When this saga started many posters with medical backgrounds were concerned about the effects on players and possible children in regard to what the players took and with what . The lack of proper records??? is staggering and those responsible
have avoided punishment. The players got suspended for not being honest to the testers. Efc got fined by government authorities and paid out hush (insurers)money to the players . Dank never had to front a court witness box. The essendon team officials pretty much avoided penalty (not withstanding Hirds mental state ). The club doctor is still there . Robinson got a payoff and a cushy job in the Afls auditor.
Hamilton is still in afl system. Hird got a paid year to study in Paris and was paid out twice.
You could do a movie on this but this has already discussed on one of the many buried threads in past 4 years .

So much wrong with this...so inaccurate.

 

[Muggs]

Hunt says no inquiry.

Looking forward to what Bruce has to say...

Personally wondering what the Justice for the 34 group got to say... their petition is now dead in the water it seems.

 

[Satan]

Personally wondering what the Justice for the 34 group got to say... their petition is now dead in the water it seems.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCNG5xJW_SG0IhW86BoX0xVg

 

[avignon]

Personally wondering what the Justice for the 34 group got to say... their petition is now dead in the water it seems.

I hope you are disappointed by this and that you want to hold the AFL and ASADA to account as much as anyone or anything else.

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

Ok I'm wrong then...all clubs bar one were impeccable in this regard...happy now, even badly run Clubs like St Kilda were absolutely pure.

All the clubs were suspect. This was an accident waiting to happen.

Waiting for one club to take it one step too far. To push the boundaries well past acceptable risk of failure.

So far, only EFC was stupid enought to run a club-wide program, as poorly planned, run and governed as this one.

If you want a comparison, compare it to Dank & Manly (?). Enough of the warning signs were picked after a couple of months in (~6 weeks?). Some of the governance did eventually kick in.

If new tests come through before the re-testing period lapses, you may yet get to foam on about the clubs.

Demonstrating that the AFL governance audit just as much another example of carpet sweeping, as it was about improving the league.

But it won't damage ASADA at all. It will reinforce that they got it right.

Yep ASADA have beeen under-funded, hampered by political intervention, hounded by vested interests in the media, stung by some poor decision-making (the initial "arrangement offering" by one of their investigators- see Chip's book). Bumbling, harassed and ham-strung, but not incompetent.
The ASADA - WADA - CAS process worked as it was meant to, around the "special" process that the AFL has, that the other sports here don't.

As has been well-referenced before, this was always going to CAS. Had the AFL decided against the players (and their own revenue ... BAHAHAHAHAHA .... excise me, I choked on that!), then the players had their right to take this to CAS, which they would have done and WADA would have still been involved, taken over from ASADA.

All your argument is doing, is cementing WADA's push for complete indepenence (governance, funding and management) from the sporting bodies it has to police.

 

[Muggs]

I hope you are disappointed by this and that you want to hold the AFL and ASADA to account as much as anyone or anything else.

Yes to some extent.

Personally don't have any issue with the Justice for the 34 recent statements asking for a general review into anti-doping.

My issue with them is their split personality on one hand their name, what the petition calls for etc is EFC34 focused. Rather then what some of their recent statements about the fact that the ASADA act has not been reviewed from an operational point of view. Think it's good governance to review these kind of agencies. Think it's poor governance to do it based on one case and not the system as a whole.

Rename, new petition I would support them. Focus on EFC34 I will continue to think they a bunch of EFC supporters who can't move on.

To be successful need to appeal to the main stream, they currently don't.

 

[imperial_oz]

I hope you are disappointed by this and that you want to hold the AFL and ASADA to account as much as anyone or anything else.

You rant on about holding ASADA to account yet you completely fail to detail what you claim they did wrong.

The ASADA investigator who gave poor advice regarding AOD9604 was one example but as it worked out in your favour, thats all to the good isn't it.

Are you the next philly who mutters about dark deeds without being able to point to any or are you the next Bruce who claim that ASADA lied and there was no evidence? The only thing that ASADA needs to be concerned with is examining how they could improve on their performance this time.

 

[avignon]

You rant on about holding ASADA to account yet you completely fail to detail what you claim they did wrong.

The ASADA investigator who gave poor advice regarding AOD9604 was one example but as it worked out in your favour, thats all to the good isn't it.

Are you the next philly who mutters about dark deeds without being able to point to any or are you the next Bruce who claim that ASADA lied and there was no evidence? The only thing that ASADA needs to be concerned with is examining how they could improve on their performance this time.

I don't care whose favour it works out to.....how can you concede a major error and dismiss it like that? And the AFL....nothing to see there either? Please tell us what your opinion is about whether ASADA and/or the AFL have some explaining to do. I think they do.

 

[imperial_oz]

I don't care whose favour it works out to.....how can you concede a major error and dismiss it like that? And the AFL....nothing to see there either? Please tell us what your opinion is about whether ASADA and/or the AFL have some explaining to do. I think they do.

Please explain why. That was my original question to you.

You claim they have explaining to do but cannot say why.

As for the AFL, they behaved poorly throughout but won't be touched. ASADA did a good job considering the level of their resourcing, experience and the pressure they were being put under by external forces. You've yet to make any case at for questioning ASADA's actions

 

[avignon]

Please explain why. That was my original question to you.

You claim they have explaining to do but cannot say why.

As for the AFL, they behaved poorly throughout but won't be touched. ASADA did a good job considering the level of their resourcing, experience and the pressure they were being put under by external forces. You've yet to make any case at for questioning ASADA's actions

External forces being the AFL to name but one......this is disgraceful. So you concede there needs to be questions raised about their level of resourcing, experience and the pressure they were being put on by external forces...I concur and you've answered your own question. So you believe further investigation is needed. Well done finally.

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

External forces being the AFL to name but one......this is disgraceful. So you concede there needs to be questions raised about their level of resourcing, experience and the pressure they were being put on by external forces...I concur and you've answered your own question. So you believe further investigation is needed. Well done finally.

Further investigation in to AFL yes. ASADA, that call has now been made.

Neither are going to happen.

 

[avignon]

Further investigation in to AFL yes. ASADA, that call has now been made.

Neither are going to happen.

The call has been made but that call and your opinion are two different entities...or do you just concede like that when officialdom says so. You would have been a very compliant school student, never questioning what the School authority laid down whether it was right or not. You haven't been known to meekly fold on here on other matters so why do you so quickly concede here on this matter?

 

[imperial_oz]

External forces being the AFL to name but one......this is disgraceful. So you concede there needs to be questions raised about their level of resourcing, experience and the pressure they were being put on by external forces...I concur and you've answered your own question. So you believe further investigation is needed. Well done finally.

Hahaha.

Thats it. You ranted on about ASADA needing to be investigated but cannot find a reason why so you fall back ASADA's resourcing?

Well, no need for an inquiry as ASADA's resourcing and experienced were all covered at the Senate Estimates Committee. As for external pressure, that is something all government agencies deal with and ASADA dealt with it correctly by resisting the pressure and following the rules.

So, can I assume you now agree that there are no grounds for an investigation into ASADA

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

The call has been made but that call and your opinion are two different entities...or do you just concede like that when officialdom says so. You would have been a very compliant school student, never questioning what the School authority laid down whether it was right or not. You haven't been known to meekly fold on here on other matters so why do you so quickly concede here on this matter?

LOL - looooong suffering SANFL supporter here, the AFL will keep getting there way , right up to the point that they will kill someone.

On the ASADA/ WADA front, I'm a supporter - hate cheats!!
However, the Russian example show how far is still to go. It's not just the international and national sporting bodies that WADA is up against at times, it's governments as well.

It all costs $.

 

[imperial_oz]

LOL - looooong suffering SANFL supporter here, the AFL will keep getting there way , right up to the point that they will kill someone.

On the ASADA/ WADA front, I'm a supporter - hate cheats!!
However, the Russian example show how far is still to go. It's not just the international and national sporting bodies that WADA is up against at times, it's governments as well.

It all costs $.

We could use a more robust system in Australia.

ASADA'a funding and staffing levels should be under regular review to ensure they can do what they are supposed to do.

Sports should not have their own tribunals. Too many grounds for conflicts of interests, corruption or accusations of the same. The AFL Tribunal has been accused in this forum of providing a 'home town' decision, yet there is no evidence that supports that. A dedicated and properly trained body would be better placed to weigh the evidence rather than a panel of persons with little or no experience in anti-doping, no matter how eminent they are.

Instead there should be a dedicated anti-doping panel to hear these matters. This panel should be separate to ASADA in all respects. All sports should sign up for the anti-doping code if they want to receive the tax exemptions provided to sporting bodies. No anti-doping, no tax breaks and no taxpayer funding.

Separating all the functions of investigation, management and doping decision making would in fact reflect the separation of powers that we use to run Australia but hopefully with a little less politics.

I'd support an inquiry into setting up such a body.

 

[avignon]

Hahaha.

Thats it. You ranted on about ASADA needing to be investigated but cannot find a reason why so you fall back ASADA's resourcing?

Well, no need for an inquiry as ASADA's resourcing and experienced were all covered at the Senate Estimates Committee. As for external pressure, that is something all government agencies deal with and ASADA dealt with it correctly by resisting the pressure and following the rules.

So, can I assume you now agree that there are no grounds for an investigation into ASADA

Huh? Admissions of errors in giving advice to sports people and then dragging those very same people through a mire of mental and financial anguish is reason enough. Just wait until ASADA stuffs up with your club....you will then realise the folly of your arguments. There definitely needs to be an inquiry on the conduct of ASADA and the AFL, as that will only be good for sport and the AFL in general long term.

 

[imperial_oz]

Huh? Admissions of errors in giving advice to sports people and then dragging those very same people through a mire of mental and financial anguish is reason enough. Just wait until ASADA stuffs up with your club....you will then realise the folly of your arguments. There definitely needs to be an inquiry on the conduct of ASADA and the AFL, as that will only be good for sport and the AFL in general long term.

Great response. What a pity none of it is true.

The ASADA investigator that gave incorrect advice is no longer at ASADA. I don't know why but I'd not be surprised if it was performance related. Either way, nothing to see here as h's gone.

The poor advice resulted in players NOT being charged with the use of AOD9604, which was and is a banned substance. ASADA acted with integrity by acknowledging there was an error that could have resulted in confusion and they did NOT proceed against the players. So much for your 'dragging people through a mire of mental and financial anguish'. Another false allegation disappearing in a puff of fact.

You are a hypocrite. You whinge unbearably about the Essendon player being subject to inquiry. An inquiry that has been more than justified by the facts that were established and results obtained, yet to wish to subject ASADA to an inquiry without any foundation. You cannot even detail a single allegation that substantiates an inquiry. Not one.

What you want is an inquiry in the forlorn hope that you can find something to complain about and say how unfair it was that 34 grown adults, with support systems, legal advisors, managers and club resources were held to the same anti-doping standard and 14 year old boys and girls with zero resources. That sir, is utterly pathetic.

 

[avignon]

Great response. What a pity none of it is true.

The ASADA investigator that gave incorrect advice is no longer at ASADA. I don't know why but I'd not be surprised if it was performance related. Either way, nothing to see here as h's gone.

The poor advice resulted in players NOT being charged with the use of AOD9604, which was and is a banned substance. ASADA acted with integrity by acknowledging there was an error that could have resulted in confusion and they did NOT proceed against the players. So much for your 'dragging people through a mire of mental and financial anguish'. Another false allegation disappearing in a puff of fact.

You are a hypocrite. You whinge unbearably about the Essendon player being subject to inquiry. An inquiry that has been more than justified by the facts that were established and results obtained, yet to wish to subject ASADA to an inquiry without any foundation. You cannot even detail a single allegation that substantiates an inquiry. Not one.

What you want is an inquiry in the forlorn hope that you can find something to complain about and say how unfair it was that 34 grown adults, with support systems, legal advisors, managers and club resources were held to the same anti-doping standard and 14 year old boys and girls with zero resources. That sir, is utterly pathetic.

None of it is true? Where do I start?

Just because someone is no longer with an organisation after stuffing up doesn't mean there is no need to follow up on what went wrong. In your world, WW2 would have been forgotten with the death of Hitler.

The poor advice resulted in a lot more than just one Essendon person: check out how a Melbourne footballer felt about his damaged reputation and anguish that followed. Just because the issue with AOD9604 wasn't followed through didn't stop the hate which still lingers today and the subsequent anguish that has followed. Besides who's whingeing unbearably about any Essendon players? I have not mentioned one. There are others at other Clubs too.

No result is going to change now...there is no forlorn hope, buddy. I just want what is best for the future of the game and there is too much unanswered at the moment to allow that to happen. There needs to be an inquiry into the conduct of the AFL and ASADA.

 

[imperial_oz]

None of it is true? Where do I start?

Just because someone is no longer with an organisation after stuffing up doesn't mean there is no need to follow up on what went wrong. In your world, WW2 would have been forgotten with the death of Hitler.

The poor advice resulted in a lot more than just one Essendon person: check out how a Melbourne footballer felt about his damaged reputation and anguish that followed. Just because the issue with AOD9604 wasn't followed through didn't stop the hate which still lingers today and the subsequent anguish that has followed. Besides who's whingeing unbearably about any Essendon players? I have not mentioned one. There are others at other Clubs too.

No result is going to change now...there is no forlorn hope, buddy. I just want what is best for the future of the game and there is too much unanswered at the moment to allow that to happen. There needs to be an inquiry into the conduct of the AFL and ASADA.

More falsehoods. Nobody was charged with AOD9604 so let forget the faux outrage. It doesn't wash.

You've latched on to a minor error in the hope of conflating that into something you can use to justify your refusal to accept that the wrongdoers here are those who failed to live up to the responsibilities under the code. You are desperately seeking for something to undermine those who held your club to account.

There are no grounds to blame ASADA for anything wrong. Your weasel words are hollow and can be seen for what they.

Better than you have tried to create a problem where none exists and they've all failed. They failed in the courts and they've failed in the Senate. Take it up with your flat earther friends in Bruce ad Alan. Thats the level you're playing at, philly

 

[avignon]

More falsehoods. Nobody was charged with AOD9604 so let forget the faux outrage. It doesn't wash.

You've latched on to a minor error in the hope of conflating that into something you can use to justify your refusal to accept that the wrongdoers here are those who failed to live up to the responsibilities under the code. You are desperately seeking for something to undermine those who held your club to account.

There are no grounds to blame ASADA for anything wrong. Your weasel words are hollow and can be seen for what they.

Better than you have tried to create a problem where none exists and they've all failed. They failed in the courts and they've failed in the Senate. Take it up with your flat earther friends in Bruce ad Alan. Thats the level you're playing at, philly

Your illogical thoughts, childish name calling and base abuse is here for all to see. There are none so blind as those that will not see. I give up!

 

[imperial_oz]

Your illogical thoughts, childish name calling and base abuse is here for all to see. There are none so blind as those that will not see. I give up!

So, no intelligent response then?

You attack the organisation responsible to investigating your club, you have no grounds for that attack, yet you insist that subjecting that organisation to attack is for the 'good of the game'? Spare me your pathetic justifications.

If you had any regard for 'the good of the game', you'd support the removal of drug cheats but you do not. Credibility zero

 

[Slartibartfast]

Your illogical thoughts, childish name calling and base abuse is here for all to see. There are none so blind as those that will not see. I give up!

You sprout show me the proof that EFC doped and when this is done you say your only here coz ASADA and AFL are corrupt.
You are full of it, crap that is.
Move on, EFC doped.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Your illogical thoughts, childish name calling and base abuse is here for all to see. There are none so blind as those that will not see. I give up!

By give up you mean you have nothing to support your hypocritical statements.

 

[avignon]

You sprout show me the proof that EFC doped and when this is done you say your only here coz ASADA and AFL are corrupt.
You are full of it, crap that is.
Move on, EFC doped.

Keep typing please. You, Imperial and Satan are lining up for a Defamation Action based on libellous statements about what I wrote and what I didn't. Satan and Imperial are leading at the moment but you are not far behind. You will get this whole website shut down and spend endless hours in a solicitor's office. Everything is being noted.