Ex-ref blows dirty secrets

[mdc]

Oh and thats right, Bibby gets called for a foul. I guess his chin went into Bryants elbow

I agree that the Kings were royally screwed in that game 6, but I can see how an official would call the foul on Bibby - his hands were around Bryant's waist the whole time and from certain angles it would be difficult to judge the contact to the face.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I agree that the Kings were royally screwed in that game 6, but I can see how an official would call the foul on Bibby - his hands were around Bryant's waist the whole time and from certain angles it would be difficult to judge the contact to the face.

I remember that play VERY well and 2 of the refs we in best possible positions to see it.

Look at the footage, Bibby is not touching Bryant until Kobe uses his left hand to bring Bibby in, and right elbow to whack him across the face. The only time Bibby commits anything resembling a foul is when he is falling down, he is holding on to Kobe. Its one of many phantom calls made in game 6.

How that wasn't a flagrant fould I've got no idea!

 

[mdc]

I remember that play VERY well and 2 of the refs we in best possible positions to see it.

I'll take your word on that, and in that case it's a bad miss but...

Look at the footage, Bibby is not touching Bryant until Kobe uses his left hand to bring Bibby in

He might not be touching Bryant, but his hands are already in a ready-to-hold position around Bryant's waist before he made his move.

 

[LukeHodge15]

Let it go Stiffy

 

[Stiffy_18]

Let it go Stiffy

Only after some justice is served.

Seriously, even if it all proves to be true, it changes nothing for the teams or players involved. The fans would feel cheated and would want blood. Its not too much to ask as a fan that we want equity.

I personally stopped following my beloved Partizan FC in Serbia as soon as I learnt about the corruption and match fixing. I don't follow the league now that I followed religiouly because it defeats the whole purpose of being a fan

 

[LukeHodge15]

Only after some justice is served.

Seriously, even if it all proves to be true, it changes nothing for the teams or players involved. The fans would feel cheated and would want blood. Its not too much to ask as a fan that we want equity.

I personally stopped following my beloved Partizan FC in Serbia as soon as I learnt about the corruption and match fixing. I don't follow the league now that I followed religiouly because it defeats the whole purpose of being a fan

I just know how passioate u are about ur Kings. I couldnt help but have a little niggle

 

[peternorth]

so stiffy what do you want to be done about this? just hand over the championship to sacramento?

 

[Stiffy_18]

so stiffy what do you want to be done about this? just hand over the championship to sacramento?

____ no! As I said, the result goes down as it is. It cannot be changed and I am sure the Kings organization and the players involved wouldn't want it.

What I want is some accountability. Those responsible to end up where TD will end up and to clean up the game. Thats all there is to it.

I think no compensation to the Kings can make up for this ____ up. None. I just want to see those respinsible punished. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[peternorth]

____ no! As I said, the result goes down as it is. It cannot be changed and I am sure the Kings organization and the players involved wouldn't want it.

What I want is some accountability. Those responsible to end up where TD will end up and to clean up the game. Thats all there is to it.

I think no compensation to the Kings can make up for this ____ up. None. I just want to see those respinsible punished. Nothing more, nothing less.

this could go all the way to the top. i can see a tv show or movie made out of this along the lines of "the company" in prison break.

 

[Stiffy_18]

this could go all the way to the top. i can see a tv show or movie made out of this along the lines of "the company" in prison break.

Hahaha!

Fair point too! I wouldn't be surprised if this goes right to the top. There have been all sort of allegations of favouritism of large market teams over the years and dodgy refereeing.

 

[lazy]

What about the Lakers-Portland series. That was very suspect as well.

Kings were totally ripped off that year. They were a great team

 

[peternorth]

if we lose to boston now ill be calling for an inquiry.

 

[mdc]

if we lose to boston now ill be calling for an inquiry.

...into the mystery of the disappearing Spaniard?

 

[peternorth]

...into the mystery of the disappearing Spaniard?

that's paul ga-soft to you

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

if we lose to boston now ill be calling for an inquiry.

Will it be known as the Mbenga file?

 

[PHX]

Well its been WIDELY believed that game 6 was as close to rigged as humanly possible. So many phantom calls, so many calls missed. I think his claims aren't far fetched as you make them out to be.

Sure his track record is not great but he has NOTHING to win by coming out with these claims. He will get his punishment but he gains nothing out of this. Except, the NBA might sue him for those comments but in reality they won't because deep down, they know that it would open up a real big pandoras box and expose the NBA for what it is.


Oh and thats right, Bibby gets called for a foul. I guess his chin went into Bryants elbow

Yes there were some ridiculous calls no doubt but I'm not going to cite Donaghy as the man who can be trusted to confirm all about that game.

I reckon he just picked the most controversial game in recent memory and decised to run with it for some publicity and to denigrate the NBA. Not buying it. Bitter.


Give me someone reputable with evidence and I'll be on the wagon.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Yes there were some ridiculous calls no doubt but I'm not going to cite Donaghy as the man who can be trusted to confirm all about that game.

I reckon he just picked the most controversial game in recent memory and decised to run with it for some publicity and to denigrate the NBA. Not buying it. Bitter.


Give me someone reputable with evidence and I'll be on the wagon.

I guess you didn't read the two links I provided earlier in the thread?!

Surely you are not naive enough to think that Donaghy is the only rotten apple in the world of the NBA?! If he could pass through the crack why can't anyone else?!

Think about it. Just like Cousins situation in the AFL, do you think he is the only player that is addicted to prohibited substances?!

TD is the guy thats taking a fall here and rightly so but I am not naive enough nor stupid enough to think that he is the only rotten apple there. I have had my suspusions for a while about the NBA now and these claims have done nothing to dismiss them.

 

[WakeUpPies]

Not saying the NBA is a rigged comp, its just that some games are obviously "sus".

It is ignorant if you think there is no chance that some games would be rigged, its David Stern!

 

[PHX]

I guess you didn't read the two links I provided earlier in the thread?!

Surely you are not naive enough to think that Donaghy is the only rotten apple in the world of the NBA?! If he could pass through the crack why can't anyone else?!

Think about it. Just like Cousins situation in the AFL, do you think he is the only player that is addicted to prohibited substances?!

TD is the guy thats taking a fall here and rightly so but I am not naive enough nor stupid enough to think that he is the only rotten apple there. I have had my suspusions for a while about the NBA now and these claims have done nothing to dismiss them.

Absolutely not, there have been some dodgy games, backed up by those files that suggest weird shit has gone down but I'm not going to accept a testimony from Donaghy as the final nail that makes this suspicion fact.

You're willing to take on board TD's claims into your "suspicion file." I'd rather not.

And btw it's clear to me how the foul was called on Bibby, he was bloody unlucky but like mdc there is a clear case for a foul against Bibby if the officials didn't see or didn't think the contact was enough for an offensive foul against Kobe.

 

[Stiffy_18]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3439554

...Former referee Hue Hollins said Thursday on ESPN's "Outside The Lines" that federal investigators "questioned me about Dick Bavetta more than they did about Tim Donaghy."...

...Another ex-referee, who spoke to ESPN.com on the condition he not be identified, said federal investigators asked him about specific games that Bavetta refereed and whether he had noticed anything peculiar about Bavetta's actions....

...A request by ESPN.com to interview Bavetta was denied Thursday by the NBA, as was a request to view the officials' postgame report from Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference finals -- a game Donaghy has alleged was refereed unfairly to ensure the Lakers and Kings would meet in a Game 7....

...During a lengthy interview with ESPN.com early in 2006, Bavetta bristled at a question that cited detractors' criticisms of him, including his officiating in Game 6 of the Lakers-Kings series, and he declined to answer on the record.

Hollins told The New York Times, in a story published Thursday, that investigators asked if he ever noticed that Bavetta "was making sure that the home team would win, and I told them I had no idea because I didn't work with him a lot."

Lemell McMorris, president of the referees' union, declined comment, and FBI spokesman Steve Kodak said the U.S. Justice Department never comments on any kind of ongoing investigation.

Interesting!

If the NBA has nothing to hide why not grant a permission to interview Bavetta and why not allow ESPN to view officials' report for the game?! If my name was tainted in this manner, I know I would be doing everything possible to clear it

 

[PHX]

Lol if there is one ref I would name as being most suspicious about it would be Bavetta, he can swing games he referees scarily at times with varying interpretations.

However I put it down to fact he's old and senile and not fit to ref in todays NBA. The guy is a walking grave basically, I'd expect grandpa to miss calls and make ridiculous ones. How is he still allowed to? I mean cmon look at him.

 

[Stiffy_18]

This tidbit is interesting as well

Is the FBI investigating Donaghy's allegations? Will others be charged with crimes?
The FBI already has investigated the allegations. Donaghy first met with FBI agents in July 2007. A team of agents has been probing his stories ever since. As the result of their investigations, federal prosecutors have filed what is known as a 5(k) letter. The 5(k) letter means the agents have checked on the stories and have concluded Donaghy was truthful. The 5(k) letter does not apply to the 2002 Western Conference finals Game 6 because the statute of limitations had expired. More than five years went by before Donaghy described that game to any agents. There was no reason to look into that game because no one could be charged with a crime. The 5(k) letter does apply to statements Donaghy made to agents regarding the three games in 2005.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=3439659

 

[PHX]

Throughout my NBA career, referees were always looking to nail me. They gave everybody a license to beat on me, but every time I so much as scratched my ass, a foul was called on me. Jim Capers once called a foul on me while I was sitting on the bench. Tweet! "Foul, number fifty-three. Five-three." Everybody was confused and looking around for number fifty-three, so I stood up and said, "I'm over here and the only thing I'm fouling is the water bottle." Then Capers started stuttering and looking around for another number. "I-I mean thirty-one. Yeah, that's it. Three-one."

I saw Sam Lacey, who'd been in the league for ages, get in a referee's face and say, "That's a f---ing shame how you f---ed up that call, you son of a bitch!" And the ref just turned and walked away. I also saw another veteran, Norm Van Lier, say to a ref, "That's bull---- you're calling, man. That's f---ing bull---- and you can s--- my d---!" Again, the ref walked away. Then when I blocked somebody's shot and said to myself, "Get that s--- outta here," I got teed up.

The best thing a referee ever did? We were playing in New Jersey and the game was on the line. Earl Strom and Dick Bavetta were the senior refs, and Strom made a call that went against the Nets and won the game for us. But Bavetta came running and jumping from halfcourt, saying, "No, no, no! I got a push off against McGinnis!" Strom said to Bavetta, "Are you overruling my call?"

"I got pushing off right here," Bavetta insisted, and the Nets wound up winning the game.

We were just walking into our locker room when the door to the referees' locker room came flying open and I saw Bavetta come staggering out. His shirt was torn, he had a big knot over his eye and he was running any way he could find to run. Then Strom stepped out into the runway and shouted after him, "You'll take another one of my f---ing calls again, right, mother------?" I also came to believe that many of the white refs were racists. White guys always got away with more s--- than black guys did. For example, after I was in the league for a couple of years, I was playing in Detroit against Bill Laimbeer, the master of the cheap shot. So I jumped to shoot the ball, and he ran up to me and punched me in the nuts. Almost knocked me out. I'm doubled over in pain and I said to the nearest referee, "Didn't you see that?" The ref said, "No, I didn't see it." Okay. A couple of plays later, I'm under the basket with Laimbeer and I punched him in the kidney. BOOM! He fell down like a little bitch and started screaming, so the referee called a foul. Then the ref came up to me and said, "If you hit a white boy like that, I got to call the foul."

No matter who had position, it seemed that if a black player tried to draw a charging foul against a white player, it was always a blocking foul. Switch them around and the black player was always called for charging into a white player. It also seemed hard for a white guy to foul out because not too many fans were willing to pay to see nothing but blacks out there. The referees must have also realized that the black guys were better athletes than the whites so the white players had to have an edge somewhere.

The refs haunted me my whole career. Stan Albeck, who coached me later with the New Jersey Nets, couldn't believe some of the referees' calls that were going against me. Unlike my previous coaches, he decided to do something. After spending hours at the tape machine, Stan put together the very first Darryl Dawkins video. Eight beautiful minutes of my side of the story. A total of 76 fouls called on me that never warranted a whistle. There were hacks that never happened, invisible bumps, imaginary extra steps, clean blocks that turned into free throws for other teams. Then Stan sent the tape to officials in the NBA league office but nothing changed.

According to the league, even though I may have had perfect position to draw a charge I was inevitably called for a block only because I was so big. Whenever I fell down after drawing what really was a charge, the logic went like this: "If a guy as big as Dawkins falls after being hit by a smaller player, then Dawkins must be faking." And what about all the times I was fouled in the act of shooting? "Dawkins is too strong for anything but a karate chop to interfere with his shot." That's the same reasoning that keeps Shaquille O'Neal from shooting 30 free throws every game.

To make matters worse, the referees never took me seriously. Common referee wisdom held that a player wasn't really playing hard unless he had a hangdog look on his face. The look you get when the finance company repossesses your car, or when the landlord raises your rent, or when your wife tells you she's ten weeks pregnant and you've been on a West Coast trip for three months.

On the court and off, I've always got a smile on my face. And why not? It's great to be alive. Even when I'm mad I don't scowl too long before my grin takes over. Unfortunately for me, the refs decided early in my career that I was only out there to clown around. Yet there were other guys, like Magic Johnson and Dominique Wilkins, whose standard game-face included a s---eating grin, and the refs gave them the benefit of every close call.

I tried everything to establish a rapport with the refs. I even swallowed my pride and tried complimenting them. When I said, "Nice call," they shot right back with, "I know." When the nice-guy approach didn't work, I yelled at them to try and make them think more about the next call. Besides a sore throat, all that got me was more quick fouls and early exits. In all, I played in the league for 14 seasons and I could never completely understand the referees' continuing and personal bias against me. In hindsight, though, I think the answer to the mystery was very simple: Somehow the referees figured out that I really thought they were all d---heads.

So f--- referees and everybody who looks like them.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/dawkins/030520.html

Lol at Darryl Dawkins, telling it like it is.

Fouled the water bottle.

 

[mdc]

This is getting out of hand. The NBA and His Smugness need to announce an independent review of officiating. Credibility is taking a big hit atm.

 

[PHX]

Just for fun with more conspiracies for you.

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