Fantastic Five

[Da Shag On Fire]

I basically want to find out from fellow supporters which Carlton player you hate to see wearing the Navey Blue. I thought this might be an interesting poll considering it is a popular topic as each round (each thrashing) occurs.

Week in week out I hear an abundance of names thrown around from our potentially better players through to our recycled rabble. Let me say as you all know, there are plenty to pick from.

However there are a select few (Five in fact) which annoy the crap out of me to the point of utter frustration due to their unfulfilled talent or plain lack of ability. Players which I hope become a distant memory at our grand club.

My fantastic Five include:
Lance "The Fittest Man in the World" Whitnall
Ian "Magical" Prendergast
Ryan "Ice Queen" Houlihan
David "Bullants Superstar" Clarke
Glen "The Nugget" Bowyer

So come on down, vote for our greatest liability or simply voice your pain.

Cheers

 

[Teagson]

My fantastic Five include:
Lance "The Fittest Man in the World" Whitnall
Ian "Magical" Prendergast
Ryan "Ice Queen" Houlihan
David "Bullants Superstar" Clarke
Glen "The Nugget" Bowyer

LOL.

My Fantastic Five:
Jordan Bannister
Digby Morrell
Troy Longmuir
David Clarke
Eddie Betts

Absolutely horrible players, and are a disgrace to the Navy Blue guernsey!

 

[blue_bhoy]

wtf? eddie betts is only 18 years old.

 

[Da Shag On Fire]

I agree with four of them but im not sure about Eddie. I think its a bit early to tell. Although his size is a bit of a worry, he could be anything in a good side. The jury is out!

 

[stokesy]

Everyone I know reckon Eddie is nothing, Dad doesn't like him, all my cousins and that think he is just another dud.

 

[Teagson]

Betts is a dud!

Most of his goals are handpassed to him, whilst he struggles to pick up more than 3 possessions a game. Actually against Port Adelaide he never even touched the ball!

The only decent game he's played was against Essendon, that's it.

You only think he's good because the media has some fantasy over Aboriginal players.

Believe me, Betts is useless.

 

[blues4flag]

Prendaghast, easily.

Also, you are being WAY to harsh on Eddie. Sure, he has not been playing like a star, but it's only his first year. Walker was no star in his first year either (although he isn't one now but has improved dramatically and will be a star). Walker only got over 10 disposals 5 times last year, and he was played in the midfield/wing, while Betts, who has been playing in the FP, kicked 9 goals in his first 5 games of football.

 

[Teagson]

Betts, who has been playing in the FP, kicked 9 goals in his first 5 games of football.

And what's he done since?

Eddie Betts' Profile

He only looks decent because we are desperately crying out for a small goalsneak.

It's unfortunate that most supporters have accepted Betts as the player to fill that role.

However the thing that really riles me up is how the selectors are so quick to scapegoat and drop players (Johnson, Scotland, Bowyer, Simpson, Livo, and even Teague!) for woeful team performances whilst Betts gets a free ride!

Can you believe that up until Round 13, Betts had only missed one game?

 

[WTTF]

has to be Whitnall..............he's given the club nothing the past few years and cost the around $500k as season on top of that.

Really, if we re-sign him at the end of the year, he should be paying the club back around $300k per year on a 3 year contract!!

 

[gandaal]

The idiocy of people amazes me sometimes. How anyone could bag an 18 year old who's managed to play 10 or so games so far in his first year on a senior list is beyond me. Its tools like you people that will keep this club at the bottom. I know you've all been brought up to expect instant gratification these days but unfortunately the football world doesn't work like that. All kids take time to develop, you can't expect them to jump out of the TAC cup and dominate. It just doesn't happen and your fools to believe otherwise. You people were ready to sack Kade Simpson three or four weeks ago and on the weekend he was our best player kicking three great goals. You people were ready to label Walker a dud, a 19 year old kid, just because he, a bottom aged player who hasn't fully matured yet, wasn't dominating the competition in his second season. And worst of all some of you intellectually cripples out there are writing off Setanta O'hAilpin, and his brother along with him, after he’s had just one match in the seniors, a match where every single player in our team had a bad game.

You people are pathetic and I'm sick to death of the lot of you.

 

[Blues_Man]

The idiocy of people amazes me sometimes. How anyone could bag an 18 year old who's managed to play 10 or so games so far in his first year on a senior list is beyond me. Its tools like you people that will keep this club at the bottom. I know you've all been brought up to expect instant gratification these days but unfortunately the football world doesn't work like that. All kids take time to develop, you can't expect them to jump out of the TAC cup and dominate. It just doesn't happen and your fools to believe otherwise. You people were ready to sack Kade Simpson three or four weeks ago and on the weekend he was our best player kicking three great goals. You people were ready to label Walker a dud, a 19 year old kid, just because he, a bottom aged player who hasn't fully matured yet, wasn't dominating the competition in his second season. And worst of all some of you intellectually cripples out there are writing off Setanta O'hAilpin, and his brother along with him, after he’s had just one match in the seniors, a match where every single player in our team had a bad game.

You people are pathetic and I'm sick to death of the lot of you.

relax gandaal most of those posters bagging eddie are kids themselves and know sweet F all about football ...just ignore them and they will go back to their gameboys and forget about football

 

[Teagson]

How anyone could bag an 18 year old who's managed to play 10 or so games so far in his first year on a senior list is beyond me.

IMHO I don't believe he will be good enough to take this club forward. I'm sorry if you don't agree.

Its tools like you people that will keep this club at the bottom.

No, it's people like you who accept mediocrity who will keep us at the bottom.

I know you've all been brought up to expect instant gratification these days

No, I'm just sick of losing every match. 4 years straight is a lot to take.

but unfortunately the football world doesn't work like that.

We will see whether he can develop into a useful player. I for one, do not believe he's the right selection.

All kids take time to develop

Yes they do.

you can't expect them to jump out of the TAC cup and dominate.

No, I expect them to show some promise rather than just sit around all day, wait till the last quarter, and then finally kick of couple of goals courtesy of a few handpasses.

It just doesn't happen and your fools to believe otherwise.

I am obviously a fool for disagreeing with you.

You people were ready to sack Kade Simpson three or four weeks ago

I wasn't. Why?

Because he actually puts in every game and has shown some promise ... unlike someone.

You people were ready to label Walker a dud, a 19 year old kid, just because he, a bottom aged player who hasn't fully matured yet, wasn't dominating the competition in his second season.

I think the 2004 West Coast game showed us the potential Walker's got.

Sometimes it's hard when you witness stars like Cooney, Judd, Ball, Riewoldt etc. adapting to the game almost straight away. Please forgive us supporters if we feel somewhat envious of other players.

You people are pathetic and I'm sick to death of the lot of you.

I sincerely hope you will realise the truth about Betts' playing ability.

 

[Funkalicous]

Lance is the biggest culprit because we constantly rely on him, and he constantly fails. I'd rather an honest goer in his position, or better yet Jared Waite. I would take a 2nd round pick for Lance in an instant. I just wanna get the heck rid of him...

 

[gandaal]

IMHO I don't believe he will be good enough to take this club forward. I'm sorry if you don't agree.

And you've made that judgment based on what? If he's still playing the same way in three years then you'd have a point but he's a teenager playing his first year of footy. He’s not, and he was never expected to be, a readymade player.

No, it's people like you who accept mediocrity who will keep us at the bottom.

No, I'm just sick of losing every match. 4 years straight is a lot to take.

And sacking the kids is going to change that? Maybe we should draft more Digby Morrells and David Clarkes because that plan worked a treat, didn't it? So we delist Eddie Betts, who's a kid who actually has shown something, and then were suddenly going to become a premiership contender and jump out of the top four. Nonsense.

And how is defending the kids, and they are kids, accepting mediocrity? Betts hasn't even had a full season yet and your already labeled him a hack. That's the kind of dumbass thinking that delisted Greg Williams all those years ago.

We will see whether he can develop into a useful player. I for one, do not believe he's the right selection.

And we should've picked who exactly? McKee? Mark Porter? Ruory Kirkby who currently running around in the Box Hill reserves?

No, I expect them to show some promise rather than just sit around all day, wait till the last quarter, and then finally kick of couple of goals courtesy of a few handpasses.

At least Eddie has kicked a few goals (Oh and you also seem to have a short memory, some of those goals in a last quarter actually won us one of the two victories we have this season). Jordan Russell has only managed one game this year in which he had two possessions. He was a far higher pick than Eddie so naturally you'd expect more from him. If we sack Eddie for not making a impact in his first year should we do the same to Russell, to Blackwell and to Raso? Of course not. You can't blame Eddie for being talented enough to actually manage a few games in his first year while you keep others who haven't been good enough to actually appear on the big stage and therefore not in your line of sight.

I am obviously a fool for disagreeing with you.

No your a fool for labeling a 18 year old first year player who's actually managed to play senior football and at times contribute a hack.

I wasn't. Why?

Because he actually puts in every game and has shown some promise ... unlike someone.

You have your favourite scapegoat, others have theirs. Doesn't mean that you aren't all as silly as eachother.

I think the 2004 West Coast game showed us the potential Walker's got.

Sometimes it's hard when you witness stars like Cooney, Judd, Ball, Riewoldt etc. adapting to the game almost straight away. Please forgive us supporters if we feel somewhat envious of other players.

Ball played school footy his entire first year, Riewoldt missed his first year through injury, Judd's a freak and Cooney was always the standout player of the 2003 draft. All of these players bar Cooney are well into their early twenties and Cooney is nudging twenty himself. If you expect Walker is be Juddlike in his second season with his current body frame I pity our two top four picks this year. If you expect Betts to be Juddlike in his first season when he was picked up in the preseason draft I think you’ll need to be certified.

I sincerely hope you will realise the truth about Betts' playing ability.

Good young prospect that should be given every chance to succeed.

 

[blues4flag]

And what's he done since?

Eddie Betts' Profile

He only looks decent because we are desperately crying out for a small goalsneak.

It's unfortunate that most supporters have accepted Betts as the player to fill that role.

However the thing that really riles me up is how the selectors are so quick to scapegoat and drop players (Johnson, Scotland, Bowyer, Simpson, Livo, and even Teague!) for woeful team performances whilst Betts gets a free ride!

Can you believe that up until Round 13, Betts had only missed one game?

I know he hasn't been consistent, but if you expect an 18 year old goal sneak to come right in and kick 2-3 goals a game than your dreaming. He's young, it's his first year and it will take him time to develop. I do think that he should have been dropped before he was, not because I didn't think he had the talent, but for him to mature in the VFL and get more game time and grow in confidence. Give the kid a couple of seasons before you call him useless.

 

[gandaal]

relax gandaal most of those posters bagging eddie are kids themselves and know sweet F all about football ...just ignore them and they will go back to their gameboys and forget about football

Sometimes you have to speak out against this kind of crap otherwise people will actually start to believe it. It's gone on long enough. The kids aren't the problem, for the draft choices we got them at their doing fine. It's the 50 gamers running around in the twos and the lack of leadership from the older players that's our biggest problem.

 

[bibi01]

The idiocy of people amazes me sometimes. How anyone could bag an 18 year old who's managed to play 10 or so games so far in his first year on a senior list is beyond me. Its tools like you people that will keep this club at the bottom. I know you've all been brought up to expect instant gratification these days but unfortunately the football world doesn't work like that. All kids take time to develop, you can't expect them to jump out of the TAC cup and dominate. It just doesn't happen and your fools to believe otherwise. You people were ready to sack Kade Simpson three or four weeks ago and on the weekend he was our best player kicking three great goals. You people were ready to label Walker a dud, a 19 year old kid, just because he, a bottom aged player who hasn't fully matured yet, wasn't dominating the competition in his second season. And worst of all some of you intellectually cripples out there are writing off Setanta O'hAilpin, and his brother along with him, after he’s had just one match in the seniors, a match where every single player in our team had a bad game.

You people are pathetic and I'm sick to death of the lot of you.

gandaal- well said.
there is way too many so called carlton supporters taking cheap pot shots.

 

[Effes]

well said gandall

people on this site love nothing more than to get stuck into a 1st or second year player. History has shown a majority of draftees take a good 3 years before they play consistently well (those picked high in the 1st round)

 

[Teagson]

And you've made that judgment based on what? If he's still playing the same way in three years then you'd have a point but he's a teenager playing his first year of footy. He’s not, and he was never expected to be, a readymade player.

I personally do think he was selected to ease our goalkicking problems. Unfortunately he's done squat except for the games against weaker teams.

For instance Betts has kicked a total of 12 goals from 11 games (not too bad one might say).

However let's take a closer look at who they were against:

Essendon 3 goals
Hawthorn 3 goals
Collingwood 2 goals
(8 goals from 3 games, not too bad either)

The last time I checked the AFL ladder:

...
13th Collingwood
14th Essendon
15th Hawthorn

Enough said.

And sacking the kids is going to change that?

No, I agree, allow the kids to develop. However I stand by my judgement in that Betts will not work out well.

So we delist Eddie Betts, who's a kid who actually has shown something

He has?

and then were suddenly going to become a premiership contender and jump out of the top four. Nonsense.

I don't believe he's the answer to our problems.

His workrate needs to increase, whilst his positioning and footy smarts also need to improve before I'm convinced.

And how is defending the kids, and they are kids, accepting mediocrity?

Betts is mediocre.

Betts hasn't even had a full season yet and your already labeled him a hack.

That's 'cause I haven't actually seen anything special from him.

That's the kind of dumbass thinking that delisted Greg Williams all those years ago.

Greg Williams was a hard worker, whereas Betts isn't.

And we should've picked who exactly? McKee? Mark Porter? Ruory Kirkby who currently running around in the Box Hill reserves?

Anyone but Betts.

Actually I would have liked to have seen a ruckman chosen elsewhere (not Porter or McKee) considering our clear shortage.

At least Eddie has kicked a few goals (Oh and you also seem to have a short memory, some of those goals in a last quarter actually won us one of the two victories we have this season).

Yes, when they were passed to him. He had done zilch prior to that.

He's just another Jeff Farmer who pops us for 5 minutes then does jack for the rest of the match.

And wasn't it great that Betts was able to perform against the 14th and 15th placed teams?

Jordan Russell has only managed one game this year in which he had two possessions. He was a far higher pick than Eddie so naturally you'd expect more from him.

1 game compared to 11.

If we sack Eddie for not making a impact in his first year should we do the same to Russell, to Blackwell and to Raso?

We did to Kenna (who was supposed to fill the same role).

Of course not.

Oh yes. Betts was practically free when you think about.

No your a fool for labeling a 18 year old first year player who's actually managed to play senior football and at times contribute a hack.

He played because we have no other crumbing forward. Betts simply has no idea.

... And contribute? What, for two quarters of the whole season?

You have your favourite scapegoat

Damn right he's my scapegoat.

Ball played school footy his entire first year, Riewoldt missed his first year through injury, Judd's a freak and Cooney was always the standout player of the 2003 draft. All of these players bar Cooney are well into their early twenties and Cooney is nudging twenty himself. If you expect Walker is be Juddlike in his second season with his current body frame I pity our two top four picks this year.

No, I'm simply frustrated by other clubs' luck with player development.

If you expect Betts to be Juddlike in his first season when he was picked up in the preseason draft I think you’ll need to be certified.

No, not Juddlike, since their roles differ.

A better comparison would be Davey to Betts. From memory both were picked up in the Pre-Season Draft weren't they?

Good young prospect that should be given every chance to succeed.

We shall see.

 

[Drummond]

After 11 games Aaron Davey had 21 goals.
After 11 games Eddie Betts has 12 goals.

Davey pressures opposition defenders and does everything possible to hold the ball in the area. Davey is also a decent contested mark, something Betts will never be. If you look at their physiques during their first year of footy, Betts weighs 75kg, while Davey was 72kg. Small forwards never really add much weight, so his current build is roughly what it will be during his entire career. In conclusion, Eddie Betts was selected in the Pre-Season draft along with many other players of his 'quality', so he is destined to be a fringe player at best.

 

[Teagson]

After 11 games Aaron Davey had 21 goals.
After 11 games Eddie Betts has 12 goals.

Davey pressures opposition defenders and does everything possible to hold the ball in the area. Davey is also a decent contested mark, something Betts will never be. If you look at their physiques during their first year of footy, Betts weighs 75kg, while Davey was 72kg. Small forwards never really add much weight, so his current build is roughly what it will be during his entire career. In conclusion, Eddie Betts was selected in the Pre-Season draft along with many other players of his 'quality', so he is destined to be a fringe player at best.

Thanks Drummond.

Betts will not be the answer we're looking for. To be honest I was hoping we'd pick up Harding at the end of last year to become our small forward but unfortunately it wasn't to be.

 

[Kooley]

IMHO I don't believe he will be good enough to take this club forward. I'm sorry if you don't agree.



No, it's people like you who accept mediocrity who will keep us at the bottom.



No, I'm just sick of losing every match. 4 years straight is a lot to take.



We will see whether he can develop into a useful player. I for one, do not believe he's the right selection.



Yes they do.



No, I expect them to show some promise rather than just sit around all day, wait till the last quarter, and then finally kick of couple of goals courtesy of a few handpasses.



I am obviously a fool for disagreeing with you.



I wasn't. Why?

Because he actually puts in every game and has shown some promise ... unlike someone.



I think the 2004 West Coast game showed us the potential Walker's got.

Sometimes it's hard when you witness stars like Cooney, Judd, Ball, Riewoldt etc. adapting to the game almost straight away. Please forgive us supporters if we feel somewhat envious of other players.



I sincerely hope you will realise the truth about Betts' playing ability.

You have no idea.

 

[master_of_puppets]

Lance is the biggest culprit because we constantly rely on him, and he constantly fails. I'd rather an honest goer in his position, or better yet Jared Waite. I would take a 2nd round pick for Lance in an instant. I just wanna get the heck rid of him...

You say you want an honest goer in his position. I've seen nothing to suggest that lance doesn't give an honest go each time he is next to the footy.

You want our worst liability, worst performed asset over the last 3 yrs, worst value for money. Look no further then the anti saviour in Deni$$ "it's not my fault, we're young, we were hurt by the loss of draft picks " pagan.

Stop bagging players, like prenda, he gives 100% each week. Ok his skills aren't the best, but i can recall prior to pagan's reign that prendas skills were much better. Perhaps it's that the coach doesn't know what he is doing and instead of practising, which apparently makes perfect, he is wasting precious time instilling a game plan that doesn't seem to suit our teams makeup.

This is just my personal observation.

 

[Kooley]

You say you want an honest goer in his position. I've seen nothing to suggest that lance doesn't give an honest go each time he is next to the footy.

You want our worst liability, worst performed asset over the last 3 yrs, worst value for money. Look no further then the anti saviour in Deni$$ "it's not my fault, we're young, we were hurt by the loss of draft picks " pagan.

Stop bagging players, like prenda, he gives 100% each week. Ok his skills aren't the best, but i can recall prior to pagan's reign that prendas skills were much better. Perhaps it's that the coach doesn't know what he is doing and instead of practising, which apparently makes perfect, he is wasting precious time instilling a game plan that doesn't seem to suit our teams makeup.

This is just my personal observation.

MOP I agree with your sentiments on Pagan but as far i can see Ian Prendergast hasn't got the footy nouse or the basic skills to cut it as an AFL footballer. I agree with you the he gives his all every time he crosses the white line but unfortunately at this elite level where hitting a targeting is vital in retaining possession of the ball Prenda unfortunately aint got it. If anything he has had more of an opportunity under Pagan than if some other coach had taken on the job at the end of 2002.

 

[Blues_Man]

After 11 games Aaron Davey had 21 goals.
After 11 games Eddie Betts has 12 goals.

Davey pressures opposition defenders and does everything possible to hold the ball in the area. Davey is also a decent contested mark, something Betts will never be. If you look at their physiques during their first year of footy, Betts weighs 75kg, while Davey was 72kg. Small forwards never really add much weight, so his current build is roughly what it will be during his entire career. In conclusion, Eddie Betts was selected in the Pre-Season draft along with many other players of his 'quality', so he is destined to be a fringe player at best.

if you actually watched Eddie Betts play you would realize his defensive pressure has directly resulted in him scoring goals , as for Davey taking contested marks ...pppppffft
as for your claim that eddie will always remain a fringe player , show me your crystal ball ??? your claim is based on ignorance and lack of football knowledge
and please stop pming me . if you have anything to say to me feel free to respond in this forum