Fantasy booking - the WCW invasion

[nobbyiscool]

This thread might fail worse than WWE's actual invasion angle... but my back is buggered, and one of the things I've done to pass the time is watch a few shoot interviews.

By far and away the best shoot series are the "Guest Booker" series by Kayfabe Commentaries (so much so that I'm actually going to buy and pay for some of their stuff next payday).

Examples of what they've done have been Russo re-booking the WCW invasion, Sopolsky re-booking the new ECW, Taylor doing something with TNA etc.

I wondered if some of these might make a decent discussion topic.

-------------------------------------

The first fantasy booker thread is about the WCW invasion. This was horrible from even before Booker T vs Buff Bagwell - it was horrible from WM17 when they showed WCW wrestlers sitting in the crowd looking like chumps. Invade the ring! Get famous! Try and earn a job!

Anyway, I'll wait and see what others do/whether the thread takes off before posting my own.

In terms of talent, lets utilise the benefit of hindsight and recognise that Vince should've opened the cheque book and gotten the talent that he needed.

SO - you can use any talent who eventually ended up in WWE. Goldberg, Steiner, Hogan, Nash, Hall... you pretty much have whoever you like except Sting.

You can incorporate ECW if you like - though I suspect most won't, because it had already been integrated in WWE tv by the time WCW came in.

- how do you introduce WCW?
- will WCW retain it's own brand? (perhaps with Thursday Nitro replacing Smackdown?)
- what are your major storylines and feuds?
- what's the eventual pay off?

I hope this thread works. I know many people here yearn for the good old days where we had more than one babyface - so re-book the old days.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

In a wonderful world, Vince would have two different promotions. That would make WWE/WCW drafts better, Survivor Series/Bragging Rights more meaningful, World Titles more prestigious. Storylines would have longer and better build ups, because WWE and WCW would have exclusive PPV's and then the Big 4.

How good would it be for a WCW star to win the Royal Rumble and then wanna fight the WWE Champion. The threat for WCW to take over both titles would be a great storyline.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Would have still had Shane sign the contract and own WCW, but have him off TV for all of 2001 after WM17. Have WWF wait until 2002 when Hogan/Nash/Hall were available. References to WCW would have been kept to a minimum in 2001... yeah, we know Shane bought it, but he's no where in sight and no one knows when/if he'll appear again. The newly acquired WCW guys are kind of treated with less respect, but not to the point that it provokes an all out rebellion... not yet.

The invasion storyline really kicks off with a surprise invasion from the nWo in early 2002, with HBK, HHH, XPac, BigShow, Steiner etc. joining them. Vince tries to rally his troops to drive the nWo out, but tension builds up in the WWF camp between the newly acquired WCWers and true blue WWFers, eventually splitting off into different camps when Shane comes back with Ric Flair, Goldberg, Sting etc. Add Paul Heyman with ECW to the mix and it's a four-way war for control.

Angle goes back and forth, eventually you do have your 'Winner Take All' match, but you have WCW winning for shock value. RAW literally becomes Nitro and Smackdown becomes Thunder for a few months... eventually Vince shows up on TV again and becomes a pest to WCW so a second chance match is set up so that if the Vince's guys lose, all of Vince's royalties/wealth would be handed over to WCW. Of course, Vince's team wins, but with WWF no more, he introduces WWE instead as RAW and Smackdown come back on air.

 

[Wickzki]

The WWE needs some type of invasion.... Not of TNA, not of NXT, not of anything but this...

JBL to run his own company within the WWE.

The downside is that people would cry "Aces and Eights"

 

[BEEG]

Would have been awesome having the final match

Austin,Rock,Angle,Taker,Jericho,Triple H

Goldberg,Hogan,Sting,Nash,Booker T,RVD

I always thought if Triple H was not injured he would have been the leader of the Alliance instead of STSA always seemed strange he was the leader did not make much sense

 

[Partridge]

This thread might fail worse than WWE's actual invasion angle... but my back is buggered, and one of the things I've done to pass the time is watch a few shoot interviews.

By far and away the best shoot series are the "Guest Booker" series by Kayfabe Commentaries (so much so that I'm actually going to buy and pay for some of their stuff next payday).

Examples of what they've done have been Russo re-booking the WCW invasion, Sopolsky re-booking the new ECW, Taylor doing something with TNA etc.

I wondered if some of these might make a decent discussion topic.

I have to ask, as you've mentioned the WCW invasion - have you seen the Jim Cornette edition? It's the best by far. And unlike Vince Russo, he actually knows what pro-wrestling is. It's compulsory viewing for anyone interested in this.

 

[nobbyiscool]

I have to ask, as you've mentioned the WCW invasion - have you seen the Jim Cornette edition? It's the best by far. And unlike Vince Russo, he actually knows what pro-wrestling is. It's compulsory viewing for anyone interested in this.

I hated Cornettes.

Cornette would've burned the industry to the ground for one hot angle. He would've given up the whole notion of worked matches for the angle that he put together.

And aside from that, using mid-carders to simmer the feud wouldn't have worked. It wouldn't have done shit for ratings, so the destruction of any sense of kayfabe that remains is for nought.

The best fantasy bookings are invariably by guys who can remove themselves from the situation a bit. Cornette, as entertaining as most of his interviews are, can't do this - his whole angle, with some exceptions playing bit-parts, is full of guys that he likes, and everyone else is ignored.

 

[Partridge]

I hated Cornettes.

Cornette would've burned the industry to the ground for one hot angle. He would've given up the whole notion of worked matches for the angle that he put together.

And aside from that, using mid-carders to simmer the feud wouldn't have worked. It wouldn't have done shit for ratings, so the destruction of any sense of kayfabe that remains is for nought.

The best fantasy bookings are invariably by guys who can remove themselves from the situation a bit. Cornette, as entertaining as most of his interviews are, can't do this - his whole angle, with some exceptions playing bit-parts, is full of guys that he likes, and everyone else is ignored.

Couldn't disagree more. Cornette respects the industry; clowns like Russo don't and never will. And Russo has burned the industry to the ground to the point it is never going to recover. Cornette fined guys in OVW if heels and faces fraternised in public. Old-fashioned? Yes. But it protected the territory. Whatever anyone thinks, in the territory days far more people followed it, far more people believed it, and far more people had careers working in it.

Not to mention, if you look up the numbers, every territory Cornette worked in or ran did record business while he was there. Even the WWF couldn't draw money in the Carolinas during the mid-80s. It isn't acknowledged of course because it doesn't run with the claim that McMahon is a supergenius and no promotion was ever profitable before him.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Couldn't disagree more. Cornette respects the industry; clowns like Russo don't and never will. And Russo has burned the industry to the ground to the point it is never going to recover. Cornette fined guys in OVW if heels and faces fraternised in public. Old-fashioned? Yes. But it protected the territory. Whatever anyone thinks, in the territory days far more people followed it, far more people believed it, and far more people had careers working in it.

Not to mention, if you look up the numbers, every territory Cornette worked in or ran did record business while he was there. Even the WWF couldn't draw money in the Carolinas during the mid-80s. It isn't acknowledged of course because it doesn't run with the claim that McMahon is a supergenius and no promotion was ever profitable before him.

Fair call - I can't disagree with any of that.

I was referring only to the angle he proposed here. When Russo started doing the really stupid shit in WCW, no one was watching any more. WCW really ended in 1999 as far as I'm concerned - I don't have too much trouble forgetting what came after that (in the context of the broader wrestling industry).

But as soon as you start doing what Cornette proposed - having guys refusing to work with each other in the ring and having deliberately shit matches, with the polar opposite approach at the same time as having guys potato each other in the ring deliberately... I just don't know where you go as a wrestling industry after that.

 

[FootyJunkie]

anyone have a link to Cornette's booking of the invasion?

 

[nobbyiscool]

It's on all the normal not-so-reputable websites where you find wrestling torrents

 

[Freomaniac]

Would have been awesome having the final match

Austin,Rock,Angle,Taker,Jericho,Triple H

Goldberg,Hogan,Sting,Nash,Booker T,RVD

I always thought if Triple H was not injured he would have been the leader of the Alliance instead of STSA always seemed strange he was the leader did not make much sense

Ok your going to Find this very very interesting....

I was on a wrestling forum weforums.com and WWE were actually originally planned the Invasion angle starting on wrestlmania 18 in 2002. But because of Triple Hs injury, they rushed it to mid 2001.

The reason WWE originally planned the WCW invasion angle in 2002 was simply because, the NWO, Flair and some other major wcw stars contracts ended around that time.

Now the Invasion PPV in July 2001 got a buy rate of 1.6 which meant 760,000 ppv buys and generated 10 million dollars. This was without Nash, Hall, Hogan, Luger, Sting, Scott Steiner, Goldberg and Ric Flair. Imagine how much more they would off pulled with all those guys.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Ok your going to Find this very very interesting....

I was on a wrestling forum weforums.com and WWE were actually originally planned the Invasion angle starting on wrestlmania 18 in 2002. But because of Triple Hs injury, they rushed it to mid 2001.

Bad logic imo. RAW was still getting great ratings despite the Monday Night War being over, and had a ton of talent to cover HHH's absence in 2001.

 

[nobbyiscool]

I wouldn't have a hard time believing that - the initial thought was that Nitro was going to be persisted with as a stand alone show until they went into the invasion angle.

Then they put Booker T vs Buff Bagwell on Raw, it got shit on, and they aborted it immediately.

This was probably one of the defining moments of the whole angle - and it rested on the shoulders of Buff Bagwell, who sucked, and whose legacy in wrestling is this match on Raw, and his mother being on a pole.

 

[Freomaniac]

Bad logic imo. RAW was still getting great ratings despite the Monday Night War being over, and had a ton of talent to cover HHH's absence in 2001.

Thats your opinion but Look at the WCW talent that "Invaded" WCW in the middle of 2001. There were only 24 WCW wrestlers. 2 of them were Former WCW champions, Booker T was one, DDP was the other. Please dont mention DDPs wwe stint. I rather not hear about it again. And yes i'm referring to the feud with undertaker

 

[BEEG]

Ok your going to Find this very very interesting....

I was on a wrestling forum weforums.com and WWE were actually originally planned the Invasion angle starting on wrestlmania 18 in 2002. But because of Triple Hs injury, they rushed it to mid 2001.

The reason WWE originally planned the WCW invasion angle in 2002 was simply because, the NWO, Flair and some other major wcw stars contracts ended around that time.

Now the Invasion PPV in July 2001 got a buy rate of 1.6 which meant 760,000 ppv buys and generated 10 million dollars. This was without Nash, Hall, Hogan, Luger, Sting, Scott Steiner, Goldberg and Ric Flair. Imagine how much more they would off pulled with all those guys.

They could of had that angle going for 12 months with those guys

 

[Lensen]

Please dont mention DDPs wwe stint. I rather not hear about it again. And yes i'm referring to the feud with undertaker

yeah that was no good but DDP had no more entertaining stint than "that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing "

and i ****ing loved "diamond cutter out of nowhere" anti-nWo DDP from ~1997

 

[Partridge]

anyone have a link to Cornette's booking of the invasion?

Don't have the link anymore but it was easy enough to find when I did.

 

[Partridge]

Thats your opinion but Look at the WCW talent that "Invaded" WCW in the middle of 2001. There were only 24 WCW wrestlers. 2 of them were Former WCW champions, Booker T was one, DDP was the other. Please dont mention DDPs wwe stint. I rather not hear about it again. And yes i'm referring to the feud with undertaker

Wasn't DDP's fault. You can't have a feud when only one guy is allowed to go over, and he gives the other guy 0%.

 

[Freomaniac]

Wasn't DDP's fault. You can't have a feud when only one guy is allowed to go over, and he gives the other guy 0%.

That Feud between DDP vs taker was horribly booked.

Watch Summerslam 1992 Between Bret "Hitman" Hart and British Bulldog for the IC belt. Hart was the IC champ going into this match and some how hitmans stock rose up significantly and Won the WWF belt 2 months later. Thats a rare example of both guys becoming better after that match.

 

[Shaxx Attaxx]

Sean Waltman has a torn anus. Just thought I'd leave that here.

Only say that because in WCW Syxx could really tear it up in the ring

 

[FootyJunkie]

I only liked Waltman when he was the 123 Kid, pre-Kliq influence.

 

[NitroFan]

Im a big Waltman fan. Even recently (pre-torn anus) he was showing he could still go. Last night I watched Sabu vs Waltman from an indy show in 93. Sabu took crazy bumps and had great looking punches and Waltman bled all over the place and had great kicks. Was awesome.

Also, the Kliq tag team match from Action Zone in 94 should be required viewing.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

in the territory days far more people followed it

Bullshit. How many people were watching in arenas and on TV in the NWA/territories days compared to the WWF-WCW days onwards?

and far more people had careers working in it.

How much did the average territory wrestler earn in a year? How many employed territory wrestlers were there at a time? I wouldn't be surprised if there's less 'full time' wrestlers today in WWE-TNA than in the old NWA/territories days but I've no doubt they're getting far better pay with better working conditions.

Regardless, what doomed the territories had nothing to do with booking styes. Once national television started caring aggregation was inevitable.

 

[Shane Mead]

Bullshit. How many people were watching in arenas and on TV in the NWA/territories days compared to the WWF-WCW days onwards?



How much did the average territory wrestler earn in a year? How many employed territory wrestlers were there at a time? I wouldn't be surprised if there's less 'full time' wrestlers today in WWE-TNA than in the old NWA/territories days but I've no doubt they're getting far better pay with better working conditions.

Regardless, what doomed the territories had nothing to do with booking styes. Once national television started caring aggregation was inevitable.

I can see you are the last person who should comment on the Territory system.