Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[fleabitten]

How many years have you spent as a primary care giver for a child?

Eleven. Why?

 

[skilts]

The air-con thing was pretty much accurate: women's skin temp is a good 3 degrees lower and the standards were put in place at a time when most office workers were men. No judgement, just a simple set of facts.

Let's not forget the most gripping discussion to arise in this thread - who should open doors for whom.

 

[fleabitten]

I come here to read about some of the myths that come from the anti-feminists that end up as world news and are accepted as facts by them.
Oh, and also for a laugh.

That makes no sense and I can totally imagine you laughing moronically as you typed it.

 

[skilts]

Eleven. Why?

Were you/are you unemployable?

 

[Maggie5]

That makes no sense and I can totally imagine you laughing moronically as you typed it.

Makes as much sense as your post.

 

[fleabitten]

Were you/are you unemployable?

Not sure what you're getting at. I worked and studied part-time until my kids were old enough to be able to get themselves home from school, at which time I returned to full-time work as soon as I could (which was about 18 months ago). I'm still their primary carer and receive $20 per child per week from their also full-time employed mother (who has them for about 5 nights per month).

 

[romeohwho]

The fact that she has the uterus and the breasts mean that the wife has to take at least some time out of her career to have a child. For many families, the decision is made for the husband to keep the money coming in (hopefully advancing in his career) while the wife, after taking the year or so out of work that is pretty much unavoidable, takes over the bulk of household management. This arrangement makes sense for the average family that doesn't have the luxury of letting both parents take time off, or of jumping in and out of the workforce at will. It's not necessarily a sexist arrangement and the natural consequences of it (higher average male earnings and greater career progression over a lifetime) aren't necessarily an indication that women are being hard done by.

Yep but why can't they swap after the first year and the female returns to work whilst the make scales his job back? Not many reasons against that arrangement?

 

[cartwright]

That statement would be fine if you expanded it to include the other side who would also rather not discuss it. Given opportunity, they choose to make ad hominem attacks and put words in people's mouths.

Do you actually contribute anything Maggie? Dont think i've read a single thing from you that isnt moralistic high ground grandstanding.

The view that you are irrefutably correct in every single opinion that exists as a glimmer in your mind, and that you are fighting the good fight, the moral fight the just fight means you never actually say anything of importance

Sorry flea, you were saying........

 

[cartwright]

Yep but why can't they swap after the first year and the female returns to work whilst the make scales his job back? Not many reasons against that arrangement?

See, this is a great thing about feminism and equality. Previously, flea bitten would not have had the opportunity to be the primary care giver.

 

[CM86]

Not sure what you're getting at. I worked and studied part-time until my kids were old enough to be able to get themselves home from school, at which time I returned to full-time work as soon as I could (which was about 18 months ago). I'm still their primary carer and receive $20 per child per week from their also full-time employed mother (who has them for about 5 nights per month).

Do you think there is anything that has happened/is happening in your life, that could make you look unfavorably on females?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Do you think there is anything that has happened/is happening in your life, that could make you look unfavorably on females?

Well that's a fairly awful thing to say/assume

Similar to victim blaming actually.

 

[CM86]

Well that's a fairly awful thing to say/assume

Similar to victim blaming actually.

Oh?
How?

 

[Maggie5]

Well that's a fairly awful thing to say/assume

Similar to victim blaming actually.

Not every question have negative connotations as I don't believe that was CM86 intentions. At least I didn't read it that way.

 

[RightorKhan]

 

[fleabitten]

Yep but why can't they swap after the first year and the female returns to work whilst the make scales his job back? Not many reasons against that arrangement?

Some people can do that. Some people don't want to. It's not as easy as you make it sound for everybody. People living pay cheque to pay cheque can't always work the hours that suit them or step into and out of their job whenever they feel like it. It often makes sense for the man to keep on working.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Yep but why can't they swap after the first year and the female returns to work whilst the make scales his job back? Not many reasons against that arrangement?

You see let me explain it to you. Women have utereses. They give birth. Based on that biological fact there is a false assumption that women should be the primary care givers once they finish breast feeding (which is a total myth). As a result of this myth few men do the hard yards and put their career in a holding pattern while they pick the kiddies up from school etc. This creates structural problems in the workforce that inhibit the career aspirations of woman that would NOT otherwise exist if men and woman shared the post breast feeding responsibilities of child rearing equally. The whole thing is based on a demonstrably false and sexist assumption - see its not that hard

That's all well and good providing each woman has just one child. That's not usually the case though.

-A few months off in the later stages of pregnancy.
-6-12 months off with the newborn/"breastfeeding repsonsibilities"
-a couple of years back at work
-Bub number 2 is conceived.
-another few months off at the end of pregnancy.
-another 6-12 months off with the newborn etc.
-back to work for a few years

Can you guess what happens if they decide to have a third kid?


The reason more men don't take time off is because 2nd and 3rd children often follow not long after the first. It doesnt make sense for fathers to stay home in these situations, because the mother will be there anyway carrying/breastfeeding the new baby.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Autonomy...

 

[fleabitten]

See, this is a great thing about feminism and equality. Previously, flea bitten would not have had the opportunity to be the primary care giver.

So, you're of the opinion that before feminism, men never raised children?

 

[fleabitten]

Do you think there is anything that has happened/is happening in your life, that could make you look unfavorably on females?

I had you on ignore and after taking you off, the first post confirms that you really should remain on ignore.

I don't look unfavourably on females. I have two daughters that I am raising into strong, intelligent, confident women. You are projecting a hatred of women onto me because I don't like modern mainstream feminism. I doubt any woman that knows me would agree with your poorly informed assessment.

I'll put you back on ignore now because there are already enough people in this thread telling me what I think and believe and you're the least intelligent of the lot.

 

[cartwright]

So, you're of the opinion that before feminism, men never raised children?

Where did I say raise? I said primary care giver. Please don't put words into my mouth. Thought you were better than that. I know of a few men who have chose to be SAHD, and or take a day off a week to care for their kids. See how feminism, and the options it has brought, have been a positive impact on your life!?

 

[romeohwho]

That's all well and good providing each woman has just one child. That's not usually the case though.

-A few months off in the later stages of pregnancy.
-6-12 months off with the newborn/"breastfeeding repsonsibilities"
-a couple of years back at work
-Bub number 2 is conceived.
-another few months off at the end of pregnancy.
-another 6-12 months off with the newborn etc.
-back to work for a few years

Can you guess what happens if they decide to have a third kid?


The reason more men don't take time off is because 2nd and 3rd children often follow not long after the first. It doesnt make sense for fathers to stay home in these situations, because the mother will be there anyway carrying/breastfeeding the new baby.

Yep agree -this is often what happens and of course goes a long way to explaining why women are disadvantaged in the workforce.

 

[kfc1]

Yep agree -this is often what happens and of course goes a long way to explaining why women are disadvantaged in the workforce.

Are they?
Barry's quote suggested adult decisions were being made. Evidently it works out a lot better for these family units if the husband remains at work, therefore suggesting the wife is also gaining an advantage. If not, they would make a different decision.

 

[fleabitten]

Where did I say raise? I said primary care giver. Please don't put words into my mouth. Thought you were better than that. I know of a few men who have chose to be SAHD, and or take a day off a week to care for their kids. See how feminism, and the options it has brought, have been a positive impact on your life!?

???

Okay, primary care giver then. You think men were never primary care givers before feminism? I struggle to see how I have feminism to thank for the opportunity to raise my kids when I was the only parent willing to sacrifice my own plans to do so. In any era, I would have been able to do the same thing. If there's anything to thank feminism for, it's that my ex-wife can pay little to no child support (she only began paying anything within the last 12 months, despite being in a better financial situation than myself and her children for several years), have a history of putting the kids in potentially unsafe situations and still have mediators taking her side and asking for further concessions from me.

The way you talk about people taking days off and jumping in and out of their jobs at will, it's clear that you're from a relatively privileged background. Even if they'd been ahead of their time in their attitudes to gender roles, my great-grandparents, grandparents and parents weren't in a position to sacrifice any of their income while they had young children. For my great-grandfather/grandfather/step-father to ask their boss for a day off every week so that their wife could go out and look for work was just not an option. This is still true in a lot of cases today. Families on a tight budget, doing what makes the most sense for them.

The decision to have the man continuously working (which in the case of low income families probably means going to a shitty underpaid job that you dislike) and the woman take care of the house and children, possibly working part-time or casually, is not necessarily a sexist decision but a practical one that benefits the whole family.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

It's not just Panahi. There are many women from the Islamic world who have called out modern Western feminists for their pettiness, selfishness and lack of perspective. If there are feminists expressing concerns about Islam, they're not doing it near as effectively as the feminists complaining about air-conditioning in their office or what some celebrity has been tweeting.

What is it with you and that freaking air conditioning article? Is that all you have to hang your hat on? I don't bang on about the significantly greater sexism in the media, like say the Daily Telegraph making a horse the Australian sportswoman of the year. That trumps your little air-conditioning article a thousand fold. Get a grip.

 

[kfc1]

What is it with you and that freaking air conditioning article? Is that all you have to hang your hat on? I don't bang on about the significantly greater sexism in the media, like say the Daily Telegraph making a horse the Australian sportswoman of the year. That trumps your little air-conditioning article a thousand fold. Get a grip.

Did they really? That's some quality trolling