MMA-UFC Fighters Union or Fighters Association

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Jab

Jab

Norm Smith Medallist
Veteran UFC and Combat Sports Board
Mar 12, 2008
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With the Conor Mcgregor issues for UFC 200 and the continued talk in the media, I thought that it might be good to have a thread on having a fighters union. I might have some left of field thoughts but feel free to ridicule me :p

McGregor is clearly ambitious and has plenty or power, money, fame (connected to power and money) and influential and good with his words. He has talked about starting McGregor Promotions and having some fighters that he represents. His latest issue with the UFC was allegedly related to not being paid to promote.

Some fighters get PPV (pay Per View) points factored into their contracts, but with the UFC pushing new platforms like Fight Pass, Fox Sports and FS1 cards, their pool for extra revenue has decreased. Not to mention the Reebok deal.

There was talk years ago about the Culinary Union, the people who were stopping the UFC from coming to New York and who hate the Frank and Lorenzo, the UFC CEO's, pursuing a fighters union. They were also behind an email that was sent to all the rostered UFC fighters. The Culinary Union have the cash and the motivation to start something.

Here's another hypotetical. Ariel Helwani is reasonable liked by the fighters and has done the right thing by the UFC, for most part, until lately. Ariel seems to have had a falling out with Dana, Fox Sports, and the UFC. In the recent scrum interview with Cowboy Cerrone, before Pettis lost to Barboza at UFC 197, he asked the the first question and one more follow up question later. It wasn't about training with Pettis, fighting Khabib, Fighting at UFC 200, it was about whether he supports the principles behind what Conor did.

Cowboy's first answer mocked McGregor, but Ariel's follow up question was received more favourably by Cerrone. It seemed like Ariel had an agenda, which isn't a shock.

If the Culinary Union funded it and if McGregor and Helwani teamed up together, would this be the combination to make a UFC Fighters Union Work?

The next step could be getting a guy like GSP involved, or Anderson Silva, Aldo, or Diaz to throw their name behind it. I know that this is far fetched but I believe that a fighters union is going to happen, it's a when not if. The MMA media would be behind it and they're all waiting for someone to stand up and put their name to it. Anyway, sorry for the insanity.
 
I hope it happens, sick of the autocratic way the UFC operate.

First there needs to be some ground swell (which I think there is), then a figurehead fighter like Conor needs to commit. Threat of a fighters strike if the UFC baulk at it would also show intent.

I hate to say this as it spreads the talent, but I like that some fighters are leaving for other promotions and better deals. Creates a competitive market, which changes the mindset for those who don't just want the glory of being in the UFC but are financially savvy. This will hopefully lead all fighters to see the need to have both: being in the UFC, the premier promotion and being financially rewarded to an appropriate degree. These two things should prompt fighters to start thinking about a union.

Spewing that Henderson lost as the UFC will just say he's cooked and they were going to drop him anyway. Would have been somewhat of a wake up call.
 
It would be great if something like this got started. It doesn't seem like anything is going to happen any time soon though. The comments made by some of the fighters regarding the McGregor stuff doesn't give me much hope.

McGregor and Helwani don't seem like the people who would get this going to me. I don't think Helwani would want to piss the UFC off that much. And I think I've seen comments by McGregor where he's said that he's against a union. He said something along the lines of if you're good you'll get paid well. Maybe this latest situation has changed his views on all that.
 

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The Reebok deal, the McGregor thing, the Diaz suspension. There has been alot of s**t on the UFC in the last year and a bit. It wouldnt suprise me to see it get some support soon.

As has been mentioned, the UFC knows how to keep it at bay (keep the champions and the stars happy) but with a few losses (Ronda, McGregor) and some pissed off fighters (McGregor, reports DJ was unhappy, Jones, Holm, Tate not that long ago) you could see it coming soon.
 
I thought it would be an interesting bump in light of the weekend's pay scales - particularly the Lesnar figure.

It's surely untenable that a Lesnar can make $2.5m - before PPV bonuses - while Dillashaw makes $75k including a performance bonus.

The problem is though that the Dillashaw's of the world are expendable. Which is why it's going to take someone like a McGregor who cares enough about his team, and who hopefully cares about other fighters being able to make a living before it happens.

If I'm say, Brock Lesnar, why am I going to give up a cent of my guarantee to Dillashaw gets paid more? The UFC are going to say there's only a finite amount to pay the fighters, so to pay Dillashaw more means taking more money out of someone's pocket.


I'm a unionist, I've worked for a union in the past, so obviously I hope it happens. I just suspect that the horse has bolted in the case of MMA for the reasons outlined above - I doubt anyone will give up their money for the greater good. I know there are a litany of other issues involved, such as sponsorships (eg. Reebok) and digital (ie. fight pass) - but at the end of the day it'll all come down to the money.
 
I'm not a union fan in general but in this case it will likely be the only solution.
 
Union for union's sake I dont agree with as corruption and self motives become rife. But if there ever was a case for collective bargaining it's the UFC's fighters.

Don't agree with why TJ needed to know if the UFC was getting sold or not, but I agree that the fighters are too expendable here and should be better looked after in order to secure the future of the sport and the level of competition being attracted to the sport. Ok I get the "just put on fights the fans want to see and you will be rewarded" argument, but we can't all be Silvas, Mcgregors and GSPs and those guys still need someone to fight and put on a show with.

I think CTE will be a big talking point as we see more fighters progress into middle age and start seeing the symptoms of punch drunkedness. I think it's unbelieveable that these guys don't have health benefits considering their line of work.. wouldn't this be an investment that would reap dividends in the long run?

Anyway interesting times to see whether the Reebok deals/fighter contracts are tinkered with by the new owners. Can't see them doing anything unless the fighters start collective bargaining though..

Interesting hearing an ex champion come out like this.
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Former UFC Bantamweight Champion T.J. Dillashaw recently let loose, giving his unfiltered opinion on the state of the UFC during an appearance on Team Alpha Male’s “Stud Show.”Dillashaw pointed to his belief that the UFC treats their fighters like employees, as opposed to what they actually are, which is independent contractors.

“They treat us like employees, but they don’t give us benefits like employees. It’s kind of crazy when you think about it. We have to tell them where we’re at at all times, so USADA can show up and drug test us. But we don’t get health benefits. It’s kind of crazy that we are controlled. Any time you have to tell work where you’re at and what you’re doing, that’s considered an employee, not a contractor. They can’t tell a subcontractor what to do and when to do it. So this whole drug-testing thing is kind of crazy and the way they’re making us wear Reebok and all this stuff we have to do. They’re treating us like employees, but not giving us the benefits of an employee.”

Dillashaw also spoke about being outright lied to regarding the sale of the UFC. As noted, Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta sold the company to WME | IMG for $4 billion.

“With UFC, we’ve pretty much stayed in the dark as much as possible. They’re telling us they’re not selling the company when everyone knows they’re selling it. It’s public record, but they’re still trying to tell us they weren’t. They’re just going to wait for the last minute for everything for us to find out.”

As far as what the future holds, Dillashaw predicted that if the fighters were to ever unionize, that will be the day UFC President Dana White, who will be staying with the company, will walk away from the sport.

“Dana and Lorenzo and those guys aren’t dumb. They’re probably going to jump ship before any kind of fighter union happens or any kind of lawsuits happen or anything like that.”

You can check out T.J. Dillashaw’s complete appearance on the “Stud Show” via the YouTube player embedded above.
 
The reebok thing should have been the tipping point. Unfortunately I think the issue is the "big" guys are looked after enough to not want a union and the "little" guys aren't valuable enough to matter.

If Jones still have his Nike deal when the Reebok thing came it all of it would have been interesting. Rockhold and Lawler are Adidas sponsored and I still can't figure out how
 
phantom13 said:
The reebok thing should have been the tipping point. Unfortunately I think the issue is the "big" guys are looked after enough to not want a union and the "little" guys aren't valuable enough to matter.

If Jones still have his Nike deal when the Reebok thing came it all of it would have been interesting. Rockhold and Lawler are Adidas sponsored and I still can't figure out how
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Adidas owns Reebok
 
deklares said:
Union for union's sake I dont agree with as corruption and self motives become rife.
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:rolleyes:

Didn't need to read beyond that.

I'd be curious to know what you base this bullshit, ignorant and incorrect assertion on.

I'd also be curious to hear of a single example of "union for union's sake".
 
Haha. I have over 10 years in the construction industry and can only speak extensively for the construction unions and what they are capable of.

I have personally been told by unionists that carcinogenic dusts were fine and that people "over react" when talking about the dangers of those dusts. I have worked on sites where smokers are allowed to smoke inside on site in full view of builders and union shop stewards, both of whoms responsibility it is to ensure a smokefree workplace in this millenium. Despite union "presence" on many of the sites I worked on I have found myself in danger when oversites occur in implementing safety procedures. I put the word presence in inverted commas because most of the time the shop stewards were nowhere to be seen even when a genuine safety issue has occured. Always not hard to find when the union dues are to be paid!

Union for union's sake I basically mean corruption and shady deals done with builders to look the other way on safety issues and deals with shady parts of the community like links with the bikies. All this is done whilst outwardly showing solidarity and loyalty with the workers.

This is not to say that unionists can't be capable of being genuinely all about safety and worker's rights. I am however speaking of the negatives that I have encountered in my time in my experience..

Sure the construction industry is nothing like the UFC, but I am talking about unions in general. Where unions exist I see the genuine possibility for corruption and self serving purposes by those in positions of power or authority to exist. I am not saying that is foregone conclusion, just pointing out that the possibility of a quite different outcome than fighters rights being strengthened if corruption was to exist within the fighters union.

You can disagree with me if you want, but I don't come to this forum for a slanging match about politics. If you disagree I couldn't give a s**t.
 

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Jab said:
No need to turn this into a s**t fight, is there?
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Unfortunately there is if people are going to mar a discussion with ignorant and/or false bullshit.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept and all that...
 
I was in the cmfeu and partly agree with deklares

At one point i was owed 20k and everytime we sat in the sheds the union rep would call our boss and receive a nice lil bonus for letting it slide.

Anonymous phone calls were made to the top and one guy had a chat with john setka. Nothing.

Im sure not all unions are like that and 75% of my industry were properly looked after, but when dealing with money there is high potential for corruption.

For the ufc it would most likely end up being an association rather than a union.
Run by fighters (with help) for fighters.

And i hope they do soon. The ufc would be worth at least half of what it is if the fighters had collective bargaining. Imagine the the new owners faces haha
 
Had some dealings in a past life with a few various union groups, and saw alot more of the deklares and bomber_mad_1989 scenarios than the alternative.

I think the idea and principles are exactly what some industries need, but way too many people see the opportunity to pervert the system and use it for their own gain.

Sort of a man destroying a great idea scenario.

bomber_mad_1989 is spot on. Fighters Union/Association ala the AFLPA, or NFLPA etc.
 
A politically motivated sham of a Royal Commission found that in a movement of over a million, a grand total of 40 may have a case to answer. Politicians and bankers both have much greater incidences of impropriety.

Unions are why if you or I get injured at work, we have workers compensation. The lack of unions in MMA (to bring it back to the topic at hand) is why Santos has a gofundme set up to support him.
 
nobbyiscool said:
A politically motivated sham of a Royal Commission found that in a movement of over a million, a grand total of 40 may have a case to answer. Politicians and bankers both have much greater incidences of impropriety.

Unions are why if you or I get injured at work, we have workers compensation. The lack of unions in MMA (to bring it back to the topic at hand) is why Santos has a gofundme set up to support him.
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I came off a ladder at work on a 10 story union job, and was denied work cover due to a footy injury 6 years prior. Union gave me a run around due to my company going into liquidation and i assume they didnt want to deal with it because i hadnt had a cent put into my incolink or super accounts and its the unions job to police.

At least 15 different shoppys gave me it an all clear when they "looked into it"

One of them drove away with a nice 2nd hand merc after working a handful of my companys jobs.

If you think that commision got to the bottom of anything you clearly havnt worked in the cmfeu.

About 10 of my mates work as carpenters on union jobs and every single one of them is anti union. Also every single one of them are sub contractors which is illegal.

Unions have there place and in theory are very beneficial. My experiences arnt positive tho.
 
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