Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK

[Bic]

Many here rated TDK well above Pittonet. I think today showed he has a very long way to go to be considered a number one ruck.

Our strength is in our midfield setup. When that was taken away today we looked... well you know.

If we want more run, TDK is the one to miss. NOT Pitto.

 

[Jimmae]

Long term I see him as an uber athletic David Hale type, B grade forward, C grade ruck.
There's a lot of improvement to go yet with Tom but hopefully today's game cools some of the excessive hype & cuts the drivel about ruckmen being largely interchangeable.

Long term I think he's maybe a notch higher as a forward/ruck than you have him. I think Mirkov will be first ruck in 12-18 months.

On a separate note, given how many on here rated TDK ahead of Pittonet based on nothing of any real substance- perhaps the digs at Jimmae are a little misplaced.

I was going off his form when given a run last year. I standby that assessment, but I accept there will be matchups where he will show his lack of experience in the role.

Still also a big believer in the 1-ruck setup, because now teams are witnessing how easily we are exposed by pace on the spread or counter, they'll plan and pick for it. We need the extra legs.

 

[Justnetime]

With Pitto starting the season well and TDK trying to impersonate Esava, it looks like TDK drops to second place for the time being. TDK in three games ‘very nearly‘ plays well but just doesn’t. Exactly like Esava at Geelong.

This match vs GC, TDK almost sole reason we got dacked. Then as a forward TDK is trying to take a spectacular mark too much and just gets his hands on it then it falls out. He doesn’t provide enough value as a fwd given it costs us runners. He for the moment has issues versus some rucks like Witts.

When TDK got to jump over Witts, it resulted in the weakest touch by hand meaning the ball fell to Witts feet where Witts was aiming anyway. I think all our mids are set up for a different ball.

Three or four times in previous games where we got the breakaway from centre and looked like a rolls Royce was when Pitto ran a foot passed the bounce point and tapped backwards. TDK could not effect that play at all.

Voss has some work to do. The difference between games 1/2 and 3/4 is that the first two midfields took us on head to head without analysing our plays. Both doggies and tigers thought they would just beat us. I think our setups are very attacking so when it goes wrong we are the ones on the end of the smashing. Voss and the midfield need to find balance when our ruck can’t set the play.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Long term I think he's maybe a notch higher as a forward/ruck than you have him. I think Mirkov will be first ruck in 12-18 months.

We might need to bookmark this comment as I’m confident he is 12-18 months away from even being a good Reserves ruckman let alone overtaking Pitto and TDK.

For the second week in a row in the 2s Mirkov backed out on multiple occasions of contesting the centre bounce.

He was also a compete liability around the grounds when the ball was in play and has absolutely no forward craft whatsoever.

 

[Jimmae]

We might need to bookmark this comment as I’m confident he is 12-18 months away from even being a good Reserves ruckman let alone overtaking Pitto and TDK.

For the second week in a row in the 2s Mirkov backed out on multiple occasions of contesting the centre bounce.

He was also a compete liability around the grounds when the ball was in play and has absolutely no forward craft whatsoever.

Backing out is a normal tactic if the ball is going on or over your head. Smart to concede ground and either come in late or assist with securing the tap or collapsing the stoppage exit by the opposition.

Fitness is definitely the concern.

 

[JustaBattler]

Backing out is a normal tactic if the ball is going on or over your head. Smart to concede ground and either come in late or assist with securing the tap or collapsing the stoppage exit by the opposition.

Fitness is definitely the concern.

He is nowhere near playing 4 quarters of VFL let alone a full quarter of AFL at this stage. That said he is showing signs of being a fast learner as far as football goes and even his kicking is improving. needs to put on a fair bit of size - which ultimately I think may be what stops him - he is a skinny one by nature and would get absolutely smashed if he's stays too lean.

 

[F_therest]

With Pitto starting the season well and TDK trying to impersonate Esava, it looks like TDK drops to second place for the time being. TDK in three games ‘very nearly‘ plays well but just doesn’t. Exactly like Esava at Geelong.

This match vs GC, TDK almost sole reason we got dacked. Then as a forward TDK is trying to take a spectacular mark too much and just gets his hands on it then it falls out. He doesn’t provide enough value as a fwd given it costs us runners. He for the moment has issues versus some rucks like Witts.

When TDK got to jump over Witts, it resulted in the weakest touch by hand meaning the ball fell to Witts feet where Witts was aiming anyway. I think all our mids are set up for a different ball.

Three or four times in previous games where we got the breakaway from centre and looked like a rolls Royce was when Pitto ran a foot passed the bounce point and tapped backwards. TDK could not effect that play at all.

Voss has some work to do. The difference between games 1/2 and 3/4 is that the first two midfields took us on head to head without analysing our plays. Both doggies and tigers thought they would just beat us. I think our setups are very attacking so when it goes wrong we are the ones on the end of the smashing. Voss and the midfield need to find balance when our ruck can’t set the play.

Nice observations.

When Pitto does that move he blocks the opposite ruckman from jumping, then the mid who gets hands on it handballs forward or sideways to a team-mate running forward...we didn't execute that play even one time today.

TDK needs to learn how to use his body to affect the opposition ruck, not simply rely on his leap. Pitto jumps into them or blocks them.

The around the ground stoppages were worse than centre clearance since TDK couldn't even use his leap. There really were quite a few ruck contests which weren't contests at all, Witts would get an easy palm down or take it out of the ruck himself. Those plays cost us at least 4 goals directly.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Fair to say Special K has his coaching job cut out for him this week.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

This has well and truly been put to rest this week.
I think we all WANT TDK to become that first choice ruck option, but he just isn't there yet.
Personally, I'd say Pitto is our most important player currently. I changed my tip to GC after he was withdrawn.

 

[BlueTang]

Lob had a go in the ruck yesterday, must admit it made smile at the time

 

[Bletch]

Lob had a go in the ruck yesterday, must admit it made smile at the time

Yeah, saw that! iirc, the previous contest we didn't have a ruckman, so good on LOB for sticking his hand up for that one. But it's not ideal...

 

[mochacinolatte]

TBF, anyone over 180 cm is considered a ruck in local footy.

 

[katmanblue]

There was never any doubt.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

When we get serious we will send Mackay in there to toughen him up some .. maybe he using that shoulder as an excuse but any reason he doesn't take more forward hitouts and develop a weapon like Hawkins -

 

[Juice030103]

Mirkov

 

[Bletch]

Mirkov

2024

 

[Beyond Blue]

When we get serious we will send Mackay in there to toughen him up some .. maybe he using that shoulder as an excuse but any reason he doesn't take more forward hitouts and develop a weapon like Hawkins -

Taking centre bounce duties as opposed to rucking in the forward line is completely different.
Hawkins only rucks in their forward line where he can use his strength to wrestle his opponent off the ball.
Even in todays OHS conscious AFL world a makeshift ruckman can easily end up with a broken rib cage, internal bleeding and organ damage, knee damage etc from a clash with an experienced opposition ruckman - its why they use those pads at training!
McKay is not ruck/forward and I hope the club never tries to make him one because it will be a sure fire way to destroy him.
Based on what I have seen thus far this year there is no doubt that Pittonet is first choice and TDK a back up ruckmen/forward, hopefully still work in progress No.1 ruck.
Mirkov is not an option in the league team for at least another 12 months, so unfortunately we are very exposed if Pittonet gets injured.
Our best hope if Pitto is injured is for TDK and Young to split the ruck duties 50/50, but even that is dependent on Oscar being available so this is where our lack of key position defender depth is once again causing us a problem as we saw on the weekend.
I understand that nobody saw Liam Jones' announcement coming but once it was know the train on guys should have all been next best available key position defenders and a ruck/forward (and by that I mean someone a lot more qualified than Josh Cripps) from the lower leagues.
It's not unreasonable to say it cost us the game...over to you Nick Austin to fix this mess!

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Taking centre bounce duties as opposed to rucking in the forward line is completely different.
Hawkins only rucks in their forward line where he can use his strength to wrestle his opponent off the ball.
Even in todays OHS conscious AFL world a makeshift ruckman can easily end up with a broken rib cage, internal bleeding and organ damage, knee damage etc from a clash with an experienced opposition ruckman - its why they use those pads at training!
McKay is not ruck/forward and I hope the club never tries to make him one because it will be a sure fire way to destroy him.
Based on what I have seen thus far this year there is no doubt that Pittonet is first choice and TDK a back up ruckmen/forward, hopefully still work in progress No.1 ruck.
Mirkov is not an option in the league team for at least another 12 months, so unfortunately we are very exposed if Pittonet gets injured.
Our best hope if Pitto is injured is for TDK and Young to split the ruck duties 50/50, but even that is dependent on Oscar being available so this is where our lack of key position defender depth is once again causing us a problem as we saw on the weekend.
I understand that nobody saw Liam Jones' announcement coming but once it was know the train on guys should have all been next best available key position defenders and a ruck/forward (and by that I mean someone a lot more qualified than Josh Cripps) from the lower leagues.
It's not unreasonable to say it cost us the game...over to you Nick Austin to fix this mess!

Yes mate . You helped me out -- o couldn't of written so much and made it read so well

 

[katmanblue]

2024

Or 2026.

 

[Davey33]

This has well and truly been put to rest this week.
I think we all WANT TDK to become that first choice ruck option, but he just isn't there yet.
Personally, I'd say Pitto is our most important player currently. I changed my tip to GC after he was withdrawn.

Did you really or you are just saying that to crow?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Did you really or you are just saying that to crow?

Nobody should ever go full Crow

 

[Davey33]

Taking centre bounce duties as opposed to rucking in the forward line is completely different.
Hawkins only rucks in their forward line where he can use his strength to wrestle his opponent off the ball.
Even in todays OHS conscious AFL world a makeshift ruckman can easily end up with a broken rib cage, internal bleeding and organ damage, knee damage etc from a clash with an experienced opposition ruckman - its why they use those pads at training!
McKay is not ruck/forward and I hope the club never tries to make him one because it will be a sure fire way to destroy him.
Based on what I have seen thus far this year there is no doubt that Pittonet is first choice and TDK a back up ruckmen/forward, hopefully still work in progress No.1 ruck.
Mirkov is not an option in the league team for at least another 12 months, so unfortunately we are very exposed if Pittonet gets injured.
Our best hope if Pitto is injured is for TDK and Young to split the ruck duties 50/50, but even that is dependent on Oscar being available so this is where our lack of key position defender depth is once again causing us a problem as we saw on the weekend.
I understand that nobody saw Liam Jones' announcement coming but once it was know the train on guys should have all been next best available key position defenders and a ruck/forward (and by that I mean someone a lot more qualified than Josh Cripps) from the lower leagues.
It's not unreasonable to say it cost us the game...over to you Nick Austin to fix this mess!

If mirkov isnt an option for another 12 mths they shouldnt have wasted the spot on selecting him rather fpind someone who is readymade.
Originally when they selected him they said it was as an immediate back up ruck (hence the need to pick him up in MID season draft).

 

[ferrisb]

Originally when they selected Mirkov they said it was as an immediate back up ruck (hence the need to pick him up in MID season draft).

Some clubs use the MSD for immediate depth cover.

Others use it to pick up guys cheaper/easier than they would at the end of the year. And to start getting development into LT projects.

I'd say Carlton went the former with Boyd and the latter withy Mirkov.

 

[ferrisb]

When Carlton selected Mirkov they said it was as an immediate back up ruck (hence the need to pick him up in MID season draft).

Numbers nerd to the rescue:

• 22 players were picked in the MSD last year
• Player median age 19.5
• 16 of the 22 (73%) would be considered long-term prospects (IMO), including 7 kids playing as overagers in the NAB League
• 7 ruckmen were selected during MSD, with an average age of 19. YES, 19!!

TL-DR; Being picked in the MSD doesn't mean you're being selected for immediate impact.

 

[Blue__Balls]

If mirkov isnt an option for another 12 mths they shouldnt have wasted the spot on selecting him rather fpind someone who is readymade.
Originally when they selected him they said it was as an immediate back up ruck (hence the need to pick him up in MID season draft).

Got a reference for that....?

Cause this indicates otherwise:

“We’ve got to know Alex well during his time with our VFL team: he’s really committed to his craft and someone who we see can take his game to a few more levels. We identified the ruck position as an area where we wanted to add too, and Alex certainly does that.

“He’s shown throughout the VFL pre-season and opening weeks of the campaign that he’s able to give the midfield group first use and isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty.

“We can’t wait to get Alex into our program and working with our ruck coach Matthew Kreuzer, which we think is really going to accelerate his development.”

Source: Blues welcome Mirkov, Boyd in mid-season rookie draft.