Fisher or Waite???

[nocode]

If we want to go forward we need to make hard decisions.
I believe Brad Fisher should be traded at seasons end, he has one asset, marking, he has no kicking skills, no vision and no football smarts very over rated by Carlton supporters i think.
With forwards like Fevola, Whitnall, Kennedy,Waite and possibly Gardner as a resting ruckman all talls there is no room for him i believe.
Jarrad Waite is a tricky one has all the tools for an athletic footballer but again cannot kick the ball as a forward we need goalkickers not just Fevola ( check out our goalkickers this year).
Maybe we should trade him for a high draft pick seeing that this draft is meant to be so good.
If you think i dont know what im talking about i also think these players should not continue at the end of the year

Livingston (worst number 4 draft pick of all time)
Prendergast (cant kick to say his life)
Sporn (needs to learn some interview skills, almost traded him to the crows last year but after they spoke to him they said no way hmmm)
Davies ( to inconsistent)
Deluca ( no impact as a big man)
Teague( always been to slow altough shows alot of heart, gams has passed him)
Chambers ( has had his chance no impact, apart from 9 point goals in the wizard cup hehe)
Saddington ( injury prone)

Here ar a couple that are borderline
Wiggins
Raso
Longmuir

We want to wim premierships not friends make some tough decisions blues it will be for the better

Id like some feedback on this topic

Go blues

 

[Funkalicous]

Both have oodles of potential. Why get rid of them for less than they're worth?

 

[sticks74]

Agree with Funkalicous... These two players have been injured for most of the year and ooooooze potential! Waite could end up a fantastic CHB if he ever gets a decent crack at it...

 

[Worth the Waite]

Think we should hold onto waite as he is very quick, agile, agressive (sometimes) and is hard to match up on, though his form in recent weeks has been very average. Put simply i think Waitey has lost his belief in his ability due to all the injury problems he has had. Hope he has an injury free pre-season and can have a greater impact in 2007. Really hope he is tried at CHB in the wiz cup.

Fisher is a tough one, again he has had a few injuries but his goal kicking is simply not good enough at this level and so i believe if we were offered a pick under 25 for him we should take it.

 

[as0l0]

wouldn't trade either of them. both are very valuable in thier own way and they are loyal Carlton players.

 

[bibi01]

Longmuir borderline??? longmuir will not be at carlton in 2007

teague, deluca and saddington are all contracted for 2007. they will be there in 2007

waite and fisher need to work on their kicking
waite also need to work on his stamina

if we trade either of waite or fisher we are only going to get an equivilant players, so the players we bring in will likely have a deficiency of their own.

 

[Gibbsrightboot]

If we want to go forward we need to make hard decisions.
I believe Brad Fisher should be traded at seasons end, he has one asset, marking, he has no kicking skills, no vision and no football smarts very over rated by Carlton supporters i think.
With forwards like Fevola, Whitnall, Kennedy,Waite and possibly Gardner as a resting ruckman all talls there is no room for him i believe.
Jarrad Waite is a tricky one has all the tools for an athletic footballer but again cannot kick the ball as a forward we need goalkickers not just Fevola ( check out our goalkickers this year).
Maybe we should trade him for a high draft pick seeing that this draft is meant to be so good.
If you think i dont know what im talking about i also think these players should not continue at the end of the year

Livingston (worst number 4 draft pick of all time)
Prendergast (cant kick to say his life)
Sporn (needs to learn some interview skills, almost traded him to the crows last year but after they spoke to him they said no way hmmm)
Davies ( to inconsistent)
Deluca ( no impact as a big man)
Teague( always been to slow altough shows alot of heart, gams has passed him)
Chambers ( has had his chance no impact, apart from 9 point goals in the wizard cup hehe)
Saddington ( injury prone)

Here ar a couple that are borderline
Wiggins
Raso
Longmuir

We want to wim premierships not friends make some tough decisions blues it will be for the better

Id like some feedback on this topic

Go blues

Waite- Without doubt the most frustrating player to watch as you know he has so much potential. Worth a punt at CHB next year otherwise could be good trade bait.

Fisher- I would not trade, we don't have a true HF player who can take 10-11 marks a game across the half forward line. Needs a full
uninterrupted pre-season. He can play small as well so I would not put in the same catergory as Fev, Kennedy, Waite. He is a medium sized player and is very hard to match up on. He Kicking does let him down though.

Livingston- enough said, take no 4 off him and give it to Gibbs.

Prendergast- has had his chances, not good enough, trade or de-list

Sporn- similiar to Prendergast, but he has a bit more potential. I would trade him if possible but not sure who would take him.

Davies- has he been injured all year? trade/de-list

Deluca- Again he has had his chances, I just don't see much improvement in him, he is a fringe player at best. I would only keep him if we could get his brother.

Teague- Too slow, too many clubs have worked him out. The problem is that he has 2 years to run on his contract. Can't question his courage, committment but the game has moved to fast for him.

Chambers- looked good in the WC in 2005 but has shown nothing since, delist as no one will pick him up

Saddington - worth another look next year, but what I saw this year i am not too confident that he has fully recovered since he did his knee. Was a very good player at Sydney before he got injured. Someone told me he is on 300k a year which would amaze me.......

Wiggins- Borderline is correct, another who I believe can't make the cut in AFL. Trade if possible.

Raso- One that i am interested in. Does anybody know how he has been going this year for the bullants or has he been injured?

Longmuir - DE-LIST please.......

I would look to trade/delist most of the guys that you mentioned bar Waite, Fisher, Raso and maybe Saddington.

The rest of them have played there 30-50 games and have shown nothing and never will. Carlton needs to move forward and the Prendergasts,Teagues, Longmuirs, Delucas, Livo, Chambers, Wiggins and so on need to be offloaded ASAP so we can develop some young kids who haven't had a chance as of yet.

Does anybody agree?

 

[Bluebear]

If we want to go forward we need to make hard decisions.
I believe Brad Fisher should be traded at seasons end, he has one asset, marking, he has no kicking skills, no vision and no football smarts very over rated by Carlton supporters i think.
With forwards like Fevola, Whitnall, Kennedy,Waite and possibly Gardner as a resting ruckman all talls there is no room for him i believe.
Jarrad Waite is a tricky one has all the tools for an athletic footballer but again cannot kick the ball as a forward we need goalkickers not just Fevola ( check out our goalkickers this year).
Maybe we should trade him for a high draft pick seeing that this draft is meant to be so good.
If you think i dont know what im talking about i also think these players should not continue at the end of the year

Livingston (worst number 4 draft pick of all time)
Prendergast (cant kick to say his life)
Sporn (needs to learn some interview skills, almost traded him to the crows last year but after they spoke to him they said no way hmmm)
Davies ( to inconsistent)
Deluca ( no impact as a big man)
Teague( always been to slow altough shows alot of heart, gams has passed him)
Chambers ( has had his chance no impact, apart from 9 point goals in the wizard cup hehe)
Saddington ( injury prone)

Here ar a couple that are borderline
Wiggins
Raso
Longmuir

We want to wim premierships not friends make some tough decisions blues it will be for the better

Id like some feedback on this topic

Go blues

Contested marks are as rare as hens teeth in this game - both players can do this up forward. Lear the Stewart Lowe lesson - you can learn to kick, but you have to be able to catch it first.

Keep them both.
Waite should be tried in the backline with Kennedy coming forward next year, unless Hartlett/Bower/Edwards make a push for the spot.

 

[carltonfan43]

i rate fisher over waite. Fisher's hands are great and if he gets his kicking right he will be great for our club. I believe Wiggins should stay another year as he has been good for us this year

 

[Kooley]

fishers kicking is a real worry. no depth or penetration in his kicking at all. the fact that he couldn't make the distance on goal from 40m on sunday was ordinary. if i had to choose between the two i would keep waite.

fisher seems like a great clubman so hopefully this side of his game can improve with a full pre-season under his belt.

 

[stokesy]

Both are not good enough in the kicking department, it's as bad as country kicking.

It will be interesting to see what the club does. I hope they both stay, as they are important especially if they can manage a full pre-season.

Both have their pros and cons. Fisher seems more reliable, you expect him to take the grab, where as you expect Waite to drop the ball.

Both still have a bit of work to go before they can become consistenly good.

 

[HBF]

Both these boys need to work on their kicking. I'd really like them to spend some time Fev over the Summer, and to learn how to kick long and straight. I can see Waite playing at CHB, and perhaps Pagan and Co. will try something over the preseason with him.

As for Fisher, there is no way you'd get rid of a guy that can mark the footy as well as he can. It's just amazing how good everhead he is, and he basically plays as a fourth tall in the forward line.

Basically, I wouldn't trade either of them. Would like to see them have a full preseason and get some decent fitness into them.

 

[Lance]

Keep them both, although they did not star this year, they both had injury interupted seasons. Given a full pre season in 2007, and tuition with their kicking for goal, they will be valuable contributors in our future. I agree with others, try Waite at CHB in the pre season games to see how he goes?

 

[pumped]

Would definitly not trade Waite. He is too versatile, has pace and strength and when confident heaps of passion and agression. Would like to see him develop more consistency and feel that midfield or half back would be a better option for at least the first half of next year.

Fisher has heaps of guts and passion but lacks very much in kicking and balance of movement. Is an awesome mark but is this enough? Can his kicking improve? I think the kicking is related to his balalnce. I just am not sure why he doesn't seem balanced and free in his movement. As such not sure if this can change enough to have him as a definite no trade player.

So Waite no and Fisher maybe but only of we got a top 15 pick [unlikely] or a ready made tough player around the 20-25 age mark. If so preferably a mobile key defender.

 

[jj1978]

We'd be utterly mad and stupid to offload one of these boys!!!!

They've only been in the system a couple of years and still are maturing in body and mind!

We've nurtured them and prepared them and in a year or two if they're ever going to start really delivering it will be then!

Do we risk getting rid of one of them for an unknown, an extra pick, another team reject?

New assistant coaches in the new pre-season will hopefully come in and have seen our deficiencies from an outsiders view. These coaches should know our skills will need a lot of working on and will hopefully take these two under their bosoms and work their arses off on honing their skills.

They're our boys, they're future true-blues, we must keep them.

 

[Bluebear]

i preface this comment by saying that both should stay because we don't have a strong enough list to delist talented players. Bith are future stars that have had injuries, and need time to devlope.

BUT:
Agree with all comments re Waite and dropping marks, though he has been better since the knee injury - needs to develop stronger hands in pack marking.
Both need to develop kicking

The one thing no-one has mention is Waites missed tackles. Its great to have speed and chase players down, but if you don't slow down and corale them, they side step you and breeze on by. Its almost come to homicide the number of times a match I see Jarrad bust his butt to lay a tackle only to go sailing past the player at a million miles an hour. Maybe Eddie can talk to him, seems to have this down pat.
If he can learn this he will be a legend for life - remember how good big red was with Hamill chasing his man down - oh for a hard tackling pressurising forward.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

If we want to go forward we need to make hard decisions.
I believe Brad Fisher should be traded at seasons end, he has one asset, marking, he has no kicking skills, no vision and no football smarts very over rated by Carlton supporters i think.
With forwards like Fevola, Whitnall, Kennedy,Waite and possibly Gardner as a resting ruckman all talls there is no room for him i believe.
Jarrad Waite is a tricky one has all the tools for an athletic footballer but again cannot kick the ball as a forward we need goalkickers not just Fevola ( check out our goalkickers this year).
Maybe we should trade him for a high draft pick seeing that this draft is meant to be so good.
If you think i dont know what im talking about i also think these players should not continue at the end of the year

Livingston (worst number 4 draft pick of all time)
Prendergast (cant kick to say his life)
Sporn (needs to learn some interview skills, almost traded him to the crows last year but after they spoke to him they said no way hmmm)
Davies ( to inconsistent)
Deluca ( no impact as a big man)
Teague( always been to slow altough shows alot of heart, gams has passed him)
Chambers ( has had his chance no impact, apart from 9 point goals in the wizard cup hehe)
Saddington ( injury prone)

Here ar a couple that are borderline
Wiggins
Raso
Longmuir

We want to wim premierships not friends make some tough decisions blues it will be for the better

Id like some feedback on this topic

Go blues

Let me guess - when you play 5 stud - if you don't get a winning hand first up you pass on all your cards?

I agree with the posts and sentiments on why these guys should be kept. Seems you are pretty hard on players who have missed through injuries - Davies has been out with a f**ked back all year. Prendergast looked to have improved this year (even his rugby union style kicking too ).

I think if we made these 'hard decisions' you eagerly suggest - we would be screwed. I guarantee you Fisher and Waite will be champions. In terms of Wiggins, I am surprised you haven't bagged him for poor kicking. Is that because it has improved a lot this year? Wiggins is a good sized HF who is handy in MF too because he is tough.

Longmuir has missed a lot through injuries too - but he should be delisted. the last thing we need is another forward - undersized and incapable too.

Livingston - well we are all disappointed - probably most of all him. But he is the sort of player (like Massey) who will probably get picked up by Crows or West Coast or something for nothing and then become a decent player (still young). He has always had the potential (allegedly) he just hasn't delivered - poor lad.

Don't judge all these players by one year in which many of them have missed through injury - that sort of ignorance is what was behind pushes to get rid of Fev.

 

[Jimthegreat]

If we want to go forward we need to make hard decisions.
I believe Brad Fisher should be traded at seasons end, he has one asset, marking, he has no kicking skills, no vision and no football smarts very over rated by Carlton supporters i think.
With forwards like Fevola, Whitnall, Kennedy,Waite and possibly Gardner as a resting ruckman all talls there is no room for him i believe.
Jarrad Waite is a tricky one has all the tools for an athletic footballer but again cannot kick the ball as a forward we need goalkickers not just Fevola ( check out our goalkickers this year).
Maybe we should trade him for a high draft pick seeing that this draft is meant to be so good.
If you think i dont know what im talking about i also think these players should not continue at the end of the year

Livingston (worst number 4 draft pick of all time)
Prendergast (cant kick to say his life)
Sporn (needs to learn some interview skills, almost traded him to the crows last year but after they spoke to him they said no way hmmm)
Davies ( to inconsistent)
Deluca ( no impact as a big man)
Teague( always been to slow altough shows alot of heart, gams has passed him)
Chambers ( has had his chance no impact, apart from 9 point goals in the wizard cup hehe)
Saddington ( injury prone)

Here ar a couple that are borderline
Wiggins
Raso
Longmuir

We want to wim premierships not friends make some tough decisions blues it will be for the better

Id like some feedback on this topic

Go blues

Fisher's hands, for a 3rd forward, are as rare as hen's teeth. Waite has the size, pace and ability to play variuous roles. He can be moved into the midfield, or maybe even down back. Both players have alot of class. Trading them will be silly and can come back to bite you on the @rse if (1)the draft pick doesn't turn out, and (2) either players stars at another club, which is certainly possible. At this point the picks you get won't be high anyway for them so it probable we won't get anything better, probably worse. We already have lots young, developing players with picks 1, 17 & 19 to come.