Analysis Five Things We Have Learned

[dogwatch]

Three weeks into the season and here are five things that stand out for me. Feel free to add your own.

1. We are going places. Our woeful form of late 2014 was not a true measure of our talents - perhaps more of the mental state of the side and the breakdown in the relationship with the coach. Beveridge has shown there is a way and that we have the makings of a very good side. Don't get too excited about 2015 but next year might be another story. Finals are a realistic expectation for 2016 and beyond.

2. Talia, Jong and Honeychurch are keepers. I was confident about Talia, unsure about the other two, but they would all be in our top 10 if you counted the B&F now. Pre-season we were saying one of Talia or Roberts had to step up to be the other KPD. Right now Talia is our BEST key defender. While there has been much talk about our 4-6 potential A-graders it's so important we have others pushing up just behind them to be quality B graders (or better). These three, with only 38 games between them, certainly have the makings. Sign them for contract extensions ASAP please JMac.

3. We have serious problems in the ruck. Minson continues to battle well and is at his best in the clearances. However he is a poor contested mark and not mobile enough to take marks around the ground. Campbell is a younger version of this and his form appears to have deteriorated in the VFL. Cordy has lost most of his rapidly diminishing supporter base on BF. It's hard to see a future for him as he has never even shown flashes of brilliance in his 7-8 year career. I agree that what we need are two ruckmen who can play complementary roles in the selected 22. At the moment we have no-one who can play that versatile, mobile ruckman to complement Will or TC. Cordy should be that man but he isn't up to it. With Will now 30 this is a major problem in our push for glory. It's just about our top priority for JMac and Dalrymple to sort out, because unless we land a ready made player like Ryder, it may take years to materialise.

4. The class of 2012 has stalled. This is not a massive concern but most of us were expecting Macrae, Stringer and Hrovat to go to another level this year. Macrae has been OK but probably not as good as his consistent 2014 form. He's a smart and determined young man and I'm sure will get back on trajectory soon. Stringer seems to be working out how he best fits in this side. I don't want him to overthink it: he is best when he plays instinctively in the forward line. I still think he'll have a burst of "breakout" games this year. Hrovat has been injured so he must be given some time but he has yet to put a real stamp on any senior game to convince us he's a lock for the 22. He needs to prove that he really does have some special qualities. I hope MC persevere with him and give him this opportunity. It's ironic that the only one in the class of 2012 who has really gone up to a new level this year is the late selection - Honeychurch (#60).

5. Our forward line is still a work in progress. There's some big talents there and Tom Boyd's class is starting to show. The two big conundrums are (1) who can play mobile CHF and (2) how do we get the forward line to play more cohesively? The second question is probably just a matter of time, coaching and experience - they will learn not to spoil each other, how to make space, where to look for the player in space, running patterns and so on. The mobile CHF is the bigger problem. Cordy isn't it and Redpath's form has stumbled after a promising preseason. Hamling is a possibility but is lightly framed. Roberts may be a long term option. I'd prefer it wasn't Stringer. If none of these work out we could be looking for another big trade/FA.


Arguably, the other big issue is midfield depth but when your midfield is missing 5-6 regular players from last year or two (Bontempelli, Wallis, Liberatore, Cooney, M.Boyd, C.Smith) it's only to be expected that you will have trouble covering for them. So this is not really a big learning. We're fortunate that Honey and Jong have stepped up.

 

[Mofra]

4. The class of 2012 has stalled. This is not a massive concern but most of us were expecting Macrae, Stringer and Hrovat to go to another level this year. Macrae has been OK but probably not as good as his consistent 2014 form. He's a smart and determined young man and I'm sure will get back on trajectory soon. Stringer seems to be working out how he best fits in this side. I don't want him to overthink it: he is best when he plays instinctively in the forward line. I still think he'll have a burst of "breakout" games this year. Hrovat has been injured so he must be given some time but he has yet to put a real stamp on any senior game to convince us he's a lock for the 22. He needs to prove that he really does have some special qualities. I hope MC persevere with him and give him this opportunity. It's ironic that the only one in the class of 2012 who has really gone up to a new level this year is the late selection - Honeychurch (#60).

Not so sure about this - Stringer was dropped in the middle of last year and didn't start 2014 off well so the way he's going is certainly better than last year at the same stage.
Hrovat didn't play last year until round 10 (?) last year - he's going to play more than the 12 games he did last year.
Macrae may have dropped off on raw numbers but given he's now learning to handle closer attention (No Libba/Griff and on the weekend no Bonti) he's playing a much tougher role.

 

[TimlinOfficial]

It's ironic that the only one in the class of 2012 who has really gone up to a new level this year is the late selection - Honeychurch (#60).

Honey was from the 2013 draft, agree with everything you've said though, particularly the issue with our ruck division

 

[dogwatch]

Not so sure about this - Stringer was dropped in the middle of last year and didn't start 2014 off well so the way he's going is certainly better than last year at the same stage.
Hrovat didn't play last year until round 10 (?) last year - he's going to play more than the 12 games he did last year.
Macrae may have dropped off on raw numbers but given he's now learning to handle closer attention (No Libba/Griff and on the weekend no Bonti) he's playing a much tougher role.

Fair enough, each to their own opinions, but for me Stringer had a very impressive back half to 2014 and is not playing with quite the same confidence and fluency. I'm guessing that is due to the changed forward line structure and expectations under a new coach. I'm still very upbeat about him though. Macrae, it must be said, was already at a high level last year so "another level" might be asking a bit much so soon. However your comment is consistent with mine - he'll work it out soon enough.

This whole area (the class of 2012) is actually a reason for optimism because our improved form has come without them stepping up to a new level. When/if they do step up we'll be even better!

 

[Mutt]

The number one thing I've learned so far is that a loss brings out the worst in some of our supporters (not referring to you Dogwatch.)

In so far as the OP's observations, I can't agree that the class of 2012 has stalled. A minor loss of momentum after coming up against the reigning Premier (who were hell bent on atoning for a loss to Essendon the previous week) perhaps. It's a long season and our expectations of this group of players are probably unrealistically high.

 

[Werewolf]

Disagree on point 4 dogwatch. Stringer and Macrae started the year well, they just had a bad day against a much more experienced side yesterday. I still feel Stringer is more of a forward than a midfielder. Hrovat was a little rusty but will get better. Hunter's form isn't great but it's too soon to panic. Agree that Prudden is a slight concern - will he ever be seen at senior level? Also Honeychurch was from the 2013 draft.

 

[dogwatch]

Honey was from the 2013 draft, agree with everything you've said though, particularly the issue with our ruck division

Thanks for the correction.
It was Hunter (#46) and Prudden (#50) who came in late in the 2012 draft. And both of them have definitely stalled. I think Hunter will make it but I am concerned that Prudden has yet to get any continuity in his career. Has only shown a few flashes in the VFL/preseason games.

 

[Mutt]

Thanks for the correction.
It was Hunter (#46) and Prudden (#50) who came in late in the 2012 draft. And both of them have definitely stalled. I think Hunter will make it but I am concerned that Prudden has yet to get any continuity in his career. Has only shown a few flashes in the VFL/preseason games.

Prudden was named as an emergency this week.

 

[TimlinOfficial]

Surely Prudden has to make a senior debut this year to have a chance? So many other guys fighting for the same spot

 

[dogwatch]

Disagree on point 4 dogwatch. Stringer and Macrae started the year well, they just had a bad day against a much more experienced side yesterday. I still feel Stringer is more of a forward than a midfielder. Hrovat was a little rusty but will get better. Hunter's form isn't great but it's too soon to panic. Also Honeychurch was from the 2013 draft.

Agree with most of that. Perhaps as Mutt says, it's about expectations. Jong, Talia, Honeychurch have exceeded most of our expectations so we're overjoyed for them.

I have quite high expectations of Stringer and Hrovat but I wouldn't have thought "unrealistically high". Macrae is playing quite well but in my view is still not hurting the opposition as much as he could be with so many possessions. (I concede I could be unrealistic in my expectations on that one.)

 

[dogwatch]

Prudden was named as an emergency this week.

I'm well aware of that but have yet to see or hear of him doing much. And being a travelling emergency he has missed yet another game. When your career needs continuity and game time that's not ideal.

I much prefer weekends when the WB side plays first (in Melbourne) and then the Footscray side plays later. Then we can have an emergency who still gets a VFL game if not required for the seniors.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Prudden going down to Tassie suggests he's not all that far off it, even if it followed an injury to Boyd.

I don't think it's out of line to suggest the 2012 class has stalled. Granted, Prudden seems to have progressed and Hrovat & Hunter have had issues with injury/Gamblore, but Stringer and Macrae are on a steeper learning curve & struggling a little bit, even if their stats are okay.

It can be a valid observation without being a criticism.

 

[ossie_21]

The number one thing I've learned so far is that a loss brings out the worst in some of our supporters (not referring to you Dogwatch.)

In so far as the OP's observations, I can't agree that the class of 2012 has stalled. A minor loss of momentum after coming up against the reigning Premier (who were hell bent on atoning for a loss to Essendon the previous week) perhaps. It's a long season and our expectations of this group of players are probably unrealistically high.

The biggest loser from yesterday's game was Adelaide!




Just forecasting what people said about us when the Hawks lost & it turned out true...

 

[Dogsman16]

Not sure about point 4 - Agree with the Hrovat assessment but Macrae hasn't had the inside support that he had in 2014. 3 key players Griffen, Libertore, Boyd are all out of the midfield and those roles have been filled by Wallis, Bonts, Jong etc as the major ball winners on the inside. Also McCartney's game style with those extra numbers on the inside meant that Macrae always had a steady supply of ball being fed out to him on the outside. Rarely were our inside mids beaten through sheer numbers.

Stringer is a forward and in the first two games has looked dynamic playing his proper role. Rance had his hands full when Stringer played as the lead up FF when cordy was subbed and T.Boyd played a bit in the ruck and if he had kicked straight then by the end of round 2 he should have been second in the coleman. Putting Stringer in the middle is effectively robbing peter to pay paul except with lesser output. Bev had his hands tied here on the weekend so its no fault of his its just that injury required someone with midfield instincts to play as a mid all game. Stringer just doesn't have the tank nor the awareness of what is direct opponent is doing to become a Gun midfielder IMO. But he has every quality imaginable to be that gun forward which is already 80% of the way there.

Stringer really should only play in the guts when we need a big clearance or to stem the tide with a quick goal. He has x factor and one clearance he had on the weekend was dynamite (unfortunately one of his team mates stuffed up the handball recieve).

Hrovat hasn't been great so far, Honey is a better small forward than Hrovat through pace and pressure and Hrovat has gained traction in our midfield as of yet. Needs to do so in wallys absence.

Agree with everything else though. Stringer and Macrae through injury to key personel have been forced to play in positions that aren't there most suited roles. Bonts back Smith back and the reliance to do the dirty stuff will lessen and their ability to be destructive will increase.

 

[Mofra]

Surely Prudden has to make a senior debut this year to have a chance? So many other guys fighting for the same spot

I think so - he's been unlucky over the journey but it's a cruel business.

If he can't crack games soon in a side with 5 potential 2014 draftee running types and Libba out for the year with others being rotated or injured I fear his days are numbered. A shame because he's dominated VFL level before and shown us glimpses of real ability.

 

[Yojimbo]

1- Robert Murphy is a great captaincy choice.

2- Ruckmen are not key position players.

3- Buy in or belief is crucial for team harmony.

4- It's hard to attract talent without baring
your buttocks if you are a bottom club.

5- It's sheer fancy to imagine an injury free
season in the modern game.

 

[stefoid]

With Waliis and Libba out, Prudden could get a chance - hes an inside mid, isnt he?

 

[fargy]

1- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
2- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
3- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
4- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
5- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea

1- We are better positioned than a majority thought at the start of the year.

2- Even though Jong continues to improve rapidly, I'm still continually amazed at how much he is improving.

3- We are generally getting an even spread throughout games apart from one or two. In future it will be a nightmare for opposition coaches trying to keep up with who we have playing where.

4- Our backline is a lot better than what we thought pre season.

5- Even when we win people find lots of stuff to complain about. I get the feeling some people are happier when we lose so they can dig the boots in non stop.

 

[Mattdougie]

1: How bad McCartney actually was

2: Bont may go down in the top 3 players we have ever had

3: We still have a long way to go but the core is there, and may be the best we have had in my lifetime

4: We still have some pretty average players in our best 22

5: Some of our supporters are pathetic sooks who can't handle honesty and think everything should be rainbows and puppies

 

[timtamWB]

1: How bad McCartney actually was

2: Bont may go down in the top 3 players we have ever had

3: We still have a long way to go but the core is there, and may be the best we have had in my lifetime

4: We still have some pretty average players in our best 22

5: Some of our supporters are pathetic sooks who can't handle honesty and think everything should be rainbows and puppies

Don't agree with 4, remember we've got a few injuries.

But you were doing so well until you had to go for the cheap shot with #5.

 

[Mattdougie]

Don't agree with 4, remember we've got a few injuries.

But you were doing so well until you had to go for the cheap shot with #5.

#4 absolutely but I still think we have a couple at the bottom end who arnt up to it but that's not a bad thing in the phase of rebuild we are in

#5 returning serve, sick to death of myself and others being jabbed with being happier when we lose simply coz we don't spill positives all day. We have had a lot of positives this year no doubt but also a couple of glaring negatives and that also isn't a bad thing as long as we accept them and try to fix them

 

[Mutt]

1: How bad McCartney actually was

2: Bont may go down in the top 3 players we have ever had

3: We still have a long way to go but the core is there, and may be the best we have had in my lifetime

4: We still have some pretty average players in our best 22

5: Some of our supporters are pathetic sooks who can't handle honesty and think everything should be rainbows and puppies

I'd pretty much agree with all of the points you make here MD. Especially 3 and 4.

 

[black pup]

Reading all this rubbish, I cannot wait to have a crack at the opening odds on offer for the Bulldogs, for the Adelaide game on Sunday. I have had very nice wins on the punt first two rounds, funny thing Did not have a bet on Sunday ?????
Why would you with your 3 best players out from previous week out, surprise they will all be back next week including Wood.
We did not to expect to win on Sunday, but I believe Adelaide next week a different story, we have targeted Adelaide as a win. I BELIEVE WE WILL DEFEAT ADELAIDE NEXT SUNDAY.
That with my poor Judement leaves us 3 wins out of 4 ???? the charter assassination on the above posts amazes me, most are young players who have had outstanding starts to their careers.
Playing AFL / VFL a little bit harder than posting on Big Footy.
Beveridge is very smart, surprise, surprise a few will probably discreetly miss the following week against Sydney in Sydney.
We have a very young list that has to be mangaged very carefully
Then we will set ourselves to have a serious crack at Fremantle, Melbourne and the Giants.
Our aim would be 5 wins 3 losses, sounds pretty good to me.
We have a Professional Coach now, KPI's to be met. It may not work out, but we are going to have a red hot crack at it.
Western Bulldogs are going along very well, two out of three ain't bad.
Reading most of the above posts, that's it.
GO DOGGIES.

 

[DexterTan]

1- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
2- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
3- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
4- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea
5- Tipping #lolnorf is a bad idea

1- We are better positioned than a majority thought at the start of the year.

2- Even though Jong continues to improve rapidly, I'm still continually amazed at how much he is improving.

3- We are generally getting an even spread throughout games apart from one or two. In future it will be a nightmare for opposition coaches trying to keep up with who we have playing where.

4- Our backline is a lot better than what we thought pre season.

5- Even when we win people find lots of stuff to complain about. I get the feeling some people are happier when we lose so they can dig the boots in non stop.

As I've said before. Bulldogs supporters won't be happy until the Dogs win the Premiership. Everything else is worthless.
Don't accept mediocrity!

 

[Mattdougie]

I'd pretty much agree with all of the points you make here MD. Especially 3 and 4.

Thank you Mutt I appreciate the support