Food For Thought

[_RT_]

Here is something for people to think about over the next few weeks.

In 2006 the Hawks finished in 11th spot with a record of 9 wins and 13 losses. This came a year after finishing 14th with 5 wins and 17 losses. This year we finished 9th with a 11-10-1 record the year after finishing 16th with a 3-18-1 record.

However this is where things get interesting. In the first half of this year we managed to win 3.5 games, the Hawks in 2006 won just 4 games in the first half. The second half of this season saw the Hawks win 5 of 11 to end the season including winning the last 4 of the last 6 (even though 3 of them were against the bottom 3 for the year). This year we finished off the season with 8 wins from 11 and also won 4 of the last 6 with 2 wins being against top 8 sides and 2 wins against bottom 4 sides.

That Hawthorn side of 2006 wasn't looked upon as being a GF side anytime soon but there was an expectation that they would take the next step and become a top 8 side in 2007. History shows that they went on to play 2 finals in the 07 season and were seen as a side who would jump into the top 4 this year and were a chance at winning a GF if everything went right.

Again history shows that they did just what was expected and along the way managed to snare a premiership that even their own coach and players didn't expect for another 12 months at least.

Sitting here now there seems to be an expectation that we will be the side that takes that next step and becomes a top 8 side next year. There also isn't much expectation that we will go on and win a premiership once there, but with a bit if belief from the playing group and coaches and a bit of good fortune we may actually become a threat a lot sooner than many people think.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Spot on realistic , we are not that far away. The game is changing and we have a good running young side and Coach that understands this. That is why this trade period is going to be interesting. Do we use all our picks on young 18 year olds or do we top up in areas that need topping up to make us a better match day team for 2009. I think the later. Unless we can get Kerr with pick 8 I say again keep pick 8 and trade our nuts off with the rest of our picks. Gilham , Guera, Drew etc are not all original Hawks.

Do what it takes to make our team better for 2009.

 

[King_Mallee]

but Hawthron went out and drafted quality tough players aswell as outstanding talls. All the while the implemented a very effective startegy. We have done none of these things and thus I cant see us really having a break through year

 

[darcytiger]

I can totally see where you are coming from, I think this seperates Richmond from Hawthorn though

L Franklin
J Roughead

we lack that power foward that will kick 70+

Richo is just a bandaid at the moment. Playing where ever there is leaking holes

 

[tugga]

Yeah, but they got Buddy.
We got...forget about it...

 

[CoggaRules]

Yeah, but they got Buddy.
We got...forget about it...

havent seen him on the list yet tugg, do you know something that most of us dont?

 

[Bojangles17]

I can totally see where you are coming from, I think this seperates Richmond from Hawthorn though

L Franklin
J Roughead

i think their combined contribution to their GF win showed that a sides fortunes rest on more than 1 or two...anyone who thinks Buddy hauled them over the line on sat, well the cow should jump over the moon any sec now and rest assured , the dish will run away with the spoon...

 

[RichosGuns]

They have hard bodied players with a couple of speedy runners

We have a team of speedy runers with a couple of hard bodies

Not a whole lot of comparison tbh

 

[nut]

They have hard bodied players with a couple of speedy runners

We have a team of speedy runers with a couple of hard bodies

Not a whole lot of comparison tbh

yes but our players are still in developement.....

The may well have Buddy and Roughhead... we have Lids and Cotch....

 

[_RT_]

I can totally see where you are coming from, I think this seperates Richmond from Hawthorn though

L Franklin
J Roughead

we lack that power foward that will kick 70+

Richo is just a bandaid at the moment. Playing where ever there is leaking holes

Who says we need a power forward to kick 70+.

I think the way our forward line is being constructed will be much more beneficial than just relying on 1-2 talls. We seem to be building a list of mobile forwards who can use movement to create havoc. This set up had us kick 15 goals or more in 14 games this season and average 15 goals a game for the year, which was equal 4th highest average behind the Cats(17.3), Hawks(16.3) & Dogs(16.2).

The bigger issue is the fact we conceeded on average 15 goals a game which was the 5th highest.

 

[tugga]

havent seen him on the list yet tugg, do you know something that most of us dont?

Starts with a T, ends with a G.

yes but our players are still in developement.....

The may well have Buddy and Roughhead... we have Lids and Cotch....

true, I'm happy with Lids and Cotchin.
but, Hawks had the courage to draft two talls, knowing they would take four years at least to develop. Credit where it's due. I realise we would have drafted Roughead with pick 4 had he been available, but the hawks actually showed some balls on draft day.
People were laughing at Roughhead only two years ago. if it weren't for Buddy, he be stealing the show down there.
At the time, Lids was the obvious No 1 pick and any fool would have drafted Cotchin at No 2 like we did. hawks showed some balls and have been rewarded.

 

[tony_montana]

i think their combined contribution to their GF win showed that a sides fortunes rest on more than 1 or two...anyone who thinks Buddy hauled them over the line on sat, well the cow should jump over the moon any sec now and rest assured , the dish will run away with the spoon...

they help a bit in actually getting them there wouldnt u say?

 

[Bojangles17]

they help a bit in actually getting them there wouldnt u say?

yep, same as the setup we had proved to be a winning one in 8 from last 11...that will help us in qualifying to...

 

[_RT_]

They have hard bodied players with a couple of speedy runners

We have a team of speedy runers with a couple of hard bodies

Not a whole lot of comparison tbh

You seem to be comparing them to us now. I'm comparing us now to them back then, 2 years ago when a lot of their players were like ours are now, still developing and still easily brushed aside by the bigger bodies in opposition sides.

Give some of our blokes another 2 years in the gym and they could well be in the same boat as the Hawks are now is what I'm getting at.

 

[tony_montana]

Here is something for people to think about over the next few weeks.

In 2006 the Hawks finished in 11th spot with a record of 9 wins and 13 losses. This came a year after finishing 14th with 5 wins and 17 losses. This year we finished 9th with a 11-10-1 record the year after finishing 16th with a 3-18-1 record.

However this is where things get interesting. In the first half of this year we managed to win 3.5 games, the Hawks in 2006 won just 4 games in the first half. The second half of this season saw the Hawks win 5 of 11 to end the season including winning the last 4 of the last 6 (even though 3 of them were against the bottom 3 for the year). This year we finished off the season with 8 wins from 11 and also won 4 of the last 6 with 2 wins being against top 8 sides and 2 wins against bottom 4 sides.

That Hawthorn side of 2006 wasn't looked upon as being a GF side anytime soon but there was an expectation that they would take the next step and become a top 8 side in 2007. History shows that they went on to play 2 finals in the 07 season and were seen as a side who would jump into the top 4 this year and were a chance at winning a GF if everything went right.

Again history shows that they did just what was expected and along the way managed to snare a premiership that even their own coach and players didn't expect for another 12 months at least.

Sitting here now there seems to be an expectation that we will be the side that takes that next step and becomes a top 8 side next year. There also isn't much expectation that we will go on and win a premiership once there, but with a bit if belief from the playing group and coaches and a bit of good fortune we may actually become a threat a lot sooner than many people think.

Now the easy part is actually doing our part and following through on the expected top 4 next season and premiership the year after hey? too easy

the difference is their list had substance, we're still not really sure (50/50 split amongst supporters and "experts alike) if we're even the real deal or not.

give the tip, there's probably a better chance that carlton (who are also following a similar path) will follow the hawks rather than us. Even though our young talent has a better spread than theirs imho, they are better placed with 3 matchwinners in fev, judd and stevens on their books. wouldnt surprise me one iota to see us flounder and go backwards or tread water, seen this scenario too often over the years to really think this time its different...

 

[CoggaRules]

i think their combined contribution to their GF win showed that a sides fortunes rest on more than 1 or two...anyone who thinks Buddy hauled them over the line on sat, well the cow should jump over the moon any sec now and rest assured , the dish will run away with the spoon...

you really dont understand do you BJ. Scarlett was anchored inside the D50 for the whole day dude. Do you know why? Its because there was a certain forward lurking that had kicked a ton for the year. Thats the same Scarlett who would break up the ground and create attacking waves at will every week in the home and away season.
Come on man, you look at it purely from a one-dimensional perspective. The buddys and roughheads, allowed also-rans like Dew to become matchwinners.

 

[_RT_]

Now the easy part is actually doing our part and following through on the expected top 4 next season and premiership the year after hey? too easy

the difference is their list had substance, we're still not really sure (50/50 split amongst supporters and "experts alike) if we're even the real deal or not.

give the tip, there's probably a better chance that carlton (who are also following a similar path) will follow the hawks rather than us. Even though our young talent has a better spread than theirs imho, they are better placed with 3 matchwinners in fev, judd and stevens on their books. wouldnt surprise me one iota to see us flounder and go backwards or tread water, seen this scenario too often over the years to really think this time its different...

I'm not saying it will happen TM, just putting the thought out there.

 

[telsor]

the difference is their list had substance, we're still not really sure (50/50 split amongst supporters and "experts alike) if we're even the real deal or not.

2 Years ago, the jury was still out on the Hawks.
3 Years ago, a great many Geelong supporters wanted to sack their coach...

 

[_RT_]

2 Years ago, the jury was still out on the Hawks.
3 Years ago, a great many Geelong supporters wanted to sack their coach...

And there is that too.

 

[tony_montana]

2 Years ago, the jury was still out on the Hawks.
3 Years ago, a great many Geelong supporters wanted to sack their coach...

hawthorn - yes it was but it was also widely acknowledged that they had the talent to climb. Almost universally they were lauded as having super blue chip quality youngsters, used to make me spew seeing them get the good press whilst our youngsters barely got a mention. One can see why now in retrospect.

Geelong- yes true, but it was obvious they were under performing, after all they did play in 2 preliminaries prior to that.

 

[NQTIGER]

2 Years ago, the jury was still out on the Hawks.
3 Years ago, a great many Geelong supporters wanted to sack their coach...

And???????......have u seen the hard bodies........who in our squad matches the body size/shape.....and im not talking about dew......big men dont get any shorter as the game progresses, small men get slower

1980 richmond lee, roach, dunne, jess,Strachan, cloke thats 30 % of the onfield side.....how many big guys do we have now?

also in that side welsh, malthouse , smith, bourke, wood and weightman all genuine tough nuts.......how many in the current squad?

 

[one eyedtiger]

Here is something for people to think about over the next few weeks.

In 2006 the Hawks finished in 11th spot with a record of 9 wins and 13 losses. This came a year after finishing 14th with 5 wins and 17 losses. This year we finished 9th with a 11-10-1 record the year after finishing 16th with a 3-18-1 record.

However this is where things get interesting. In the first half of this year we managed to win 3.5 games, the Hawks in 2006 won just 4 games in the first half. The second half of this season saw the Hawks win 5 of 11 to end the season including winning the last 4 of the last 6 (even though 3 of them were against the bottom 3 for the year). This year we finished off the season with 8 wins from 11 and also won 4 of the last 6 with 2 wins being against top 8 sides and 2 wins against bottom 4 sides.

That Hawthorn side of 2006 wasn't looked upon as being a GF side anytime soon but there was an expectation that they would take the next step and become a top 8 side in 2007. History shows that they went on to play 2 finals in the 07 season and were seen as a side who would jump into the top 4 this year and were a chance at winning a GF if everything went right.

Again history shows that they did just what was expected and along the way managed to snare a premiership that even their own coach and players didn't expect for another 12 months at least.

Sitting here now there seems to be an expectation that we will be the side that takes that next step and becomes a top 8 side next year. There also isn't much expectation that we will go on and win a premiership once there, but with a bit if belief from the playing group and coaches and a bit of good fortune we may actually become a threat a lot sooner than many people think.

Good post RT like u said the hawks proved there is no time frame on a premiership.many say our window will open in 2011 could it be sooner?? here's hoping

 

[beaver fever]

For someone that thinks they are realistic this is a very disappointing thread. What a fanciful piece of analysis you have performed here RT.

 

[CoggaRules]

lets not forget who is the president of the premiers and what feathers he ruffled over the last couple of years, with his comments re. everyone accountable.
And here we are with tigerheads going gaga at our president suggesting that he isnt satisfied etc etc. Employees of the club are just that employees, the president can and should hold them accountable if he feels we arent at the stage where we should have been.

i.e. he is the one that should put a rocket up the coach's arse, just like the coach puts one up the players' if he deems their performance unacceptable.
You tend to get results when people are read the riot act. If they cant handle it then they dont cut the mustard. The end.

 

[_RT_]

For someone that thinks they are realistic this is a very disappointing thread. What a fanciful piece of analysis you have performed here RT.

2008 is done and dusted, I'm looking towards 2009 with renewed confidence, instead of looking at it like it is already a lost cause. Perhaps you should try it one day.