Opinion Game Plan

[St Pauls]

I have been thinking about our game plan for awhile and just wanted to post this out to get peoples opinions.

I think over the last few years Richo has clearly been trying to develop the players into his game plan, with varying degrees of success.

Last year the players really bought into the pressure acts, tackling, forward pressure and turnovers. This was evident for most of the year, with players like Lonie, Membrey, Bruce and Weller really taking to this style.

I think we have been able to keep this going this year with some exceptions (today against the Giants and against the Dogs).

The other area that they have been working on is the run and gun from the half back. Encouraging players to play fast and go for the riskier kick if it can open up space or bring us back to the corridor.

I feel like this part of the plan has been harder and slower up take from the players. This is probably because of personal and young players not wanting to take risks.

The Collingwood game and the Hawthorn game show how the team can execute this. At the moment it relies heavily on a few skilled players, with the less skilled hand balling to the better kicks.

Hopefully the team can keep developing with this and adding young personal will help. I think the recruitment of White, Rice and McKenzie illustrate the need to improve in this area.

I think an area the club had identified is speed. We are hoping that Freeman can bring this to the stoppages and to break some lines. Recruiting a player like Shiel would also be invaluable in this area.

Anyway, thought I would put this out here, leg me know what you think!

 

[jonathons11]

I don't think anyone could really say that our game plan wouldn't win games. It is the same fast, risky plays that the Bulldogs and GWS and the other successful teams right now do.
The problem is just our kicking is never good enough to pull it off. Even Richo said last week that they have been told to take their chances and instead of changing that they will just get better at it. I really like that methodology, we've all seen that if we kicked better we would dominate so many games.
I believe our game plan is fine, our skills (or skills under pressure) are not.

 

[bird_man]

5 games into a new game plan. At times its looked ugly, other times extremely good. We will get better and more consistent at it as the year goes on.

 

[HayesTheChamp]

We do 80% of it right.... The Switch, Defensively, Zoning and rotating onto opponents.

We just can't hit the side of a barn with our kicks inside 50.

When you have a midfield where the probability of nailing a target on the chest is:

Armitage; 6/10
Steven; 3/10
Newnes; 4/10
Billings; 7/10
Ross; 3/10
Dunstan; 3/10

This is why we're in trouble. Once we have a couple rolls royces, who can actually put it to advantage.... we'll be laughing all the way to a premiership.

 

[Rors]

I think the game plan is great. We just need to keep working on execution of our disposal. If we hit out targets, we either win or go close to beating just about every team in the comp.

With personnel changes & more experience in coming seasons (better kickers, extra height in defence, more games into the young blokes etc), I see us doing very well with this game style.

 

[bergholt]

This is why we're in trouble. Once we have a couple rolls royces, who can actually put it to advantage...

Where are we going to get them from? Doesn't every other team want them as well?

 

[StKing11]

We do 80% of it right.... The Switch, Defensively, Zoning and rotating onto opponents.

We just can't hit the side of a barn with our kicks inside 50.

When you have a midfield where the probability of nailing a target on the chest is:

Armitage; 6/10
Steven; 3/10
Newnes; 4/10
Billings; 7/10
Ross; 3/10
Dunstan; 3/10

This is why we're in trouble. Once we have a couple rolls royces, who can actually put it to advantage.... we'll be laughing all the way to a premiership.

Gee you're harsh on the kicking of those guys, I'd have:

Armitage: 7/10
Steven: 6/10
Newnes: 8/10
Billings: 9.5/10
Ross: 6/10
Dunstan: 6/10

 

[TheEnsign]

Just blazing away into the forward 50 has been a problem all year, but I remain optimistic about things.

Think about it this way: Bruce wasn't 'meant' to be a forward, and Paddy has only just begun to fulfil the promise of a number one draft pick. At present our mids have very little feel for both these players, areas in which to deliver for them, etc. This just takes time.

We need at least a season with a settled forward line to assess whether delivery inside 50 will be an ongoing problem.

 

[Defacto]

game plan is fine

players basic skill level isnt. if you cant hit up targets and continually turn the ball over, you're not going to last long in this game

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Gee you're harsh on the kicking of those guys, I'd have:

Armitage: 7/10
Steven: 6/10
Newnes: 8/10
Billings: 9.5/10
Ross: 6/10
Dunstan: 6/10

The reason why those numbers are there, is because yes, they hit up a target, but its never to their advantage. They're made to look marginally better because Roo / Brucey clunk them out of no where. If you looked at the way Melbourne put the ball to advantage tonight, Vince, Viney, Salem et al. We're pretty lacking on that front.

I do note how much better our gameplan looks on a wider ground. (Finals footy is played at the G, long term it benefits us).

Where are we going to get them from? Doesn't every other team want them as well?

Well its simple, draft well and trade well. Brandon White and Bailey Rice are good kicks. Gresham was a gun kick as a junior. In my opinion, we take this year's round 1 pick to the draft and see what we can get. We let clubs come to us with offers for our players, i.e. if we get a Rhys Stanley type win, I'd pull the trigger on it. Has to be overs. Dangle next year's 1st rounder or 2nd to see what we can get, and then hit the FA pool hard in 2017.

If Hurley manages to actually break contract, then we go after him, if not... not our problem.

 

[hayes]

Game plan is fine. In time Fisher and Dempster will be replaced by Carlisle and Goddard which will give us more height back there and the Gilberts and maybe even Wellers will be replaced by more skilled players like Gresham, McKenzie, White, Rice etc plus whoever else we bring in.

The main one though is we're just still not used to executing under immense pressure. When teams really come at us our skills go to crap. Young guys need at least 50 games to get used to that.

 

[freebloke]

Game plan is OK. I really like the mid to forward switches, where the forwards come up and then players like Dunstan/Templeton run into the forward line.

Minor tweaks needed though. Players 20m-30m forward of the centre don't want to find a half forward outside the arc, but instead blaze away from there (Savage - I am pointing at you). It's fine to have a shot from outside 50, but if you want to kick inside 50 only then it's better to centre it to player or a likely space / boundary. That needs fixing ASAP.

 

[bergholt]

The main one though is we're just still not used to executing under immense pressure. When teams really come at us our skills go to crap. Young guys need at least 50 games to get used to that.

Yep, I largely agree with that. Only problem is that's still a few years away for most of the best kids. On that threshold the players stepping up would be:

2016: Bruce, Longer, Hickey, Webster, Ross, Dunstan (roughly we're already seeing this)
2017: Billings, maybe Sinclair and Lonie (not many in this group, unfortunately)
2018: Acres, Goddard, McCartin, McKenzie, maybe Lee, Templeton, Minchington, Gresham (this is where we really start to get some leverage)

I think we'll struggle for the reasons you've said until the end of next year, start of the year after. Whether Richo is still around then, I don't know. He should be but the bullshit about finals this year makes it less likely.

 

[Saintbloke]

In my experience, coaches who need to berate the players after poor effort, are probably not getting their message across in the first place. One of a coach's responsibilities is to motivate and have the team switched-on for the start of the game.
I could see no real game-plan yesterday, and the forward structure especially was all over the shop. I think one of the reasons for these increasingly horrible skill errors is that players are in two minds as to what they are supposed to do. Players who are in the clear and screaming for the ball in the corridor are ignored in favour of kicking to a pack, and next thing the ball bounces back out of our forward half. This has been happening all games this season, though we managed to control the ball in some of those games and were not badly disadvantaged, but yesterday was something else- it's poor team discipline.
I don't like laying into the coach, but it's not just the players who need a kick- yesterday revealed a lot of problems in structures and player strengths and weaknesses. Richo seems to be good at identifying and explaining the problems, but doesn't seem too good at rectifying the problems, and it's year three of his tenure- we can and should be doing better.

 

[Murraj1966]

2 games at Etihad with severely disappointing results and the field looking very cramped has me wondering if our gameplan suits larger grounds better?

I've been much happier with our games at the G', Adelaide Oval and Tassie than either at Docklands, and the excuse that we played better teams at Docklands isn't a fair description either considering we played Hawthorn in Tassie.

 

[Diehard Saint]

In my experience, coaches who need to berate the players after poor effort, are probably not getting their message across in the first place. One of a coach's responsibilities is to motivate and have the team switched-on for the start of the game.
I could see no real game-plan yesterday, and the forward structure especially was all over the shop. I think one of the reasons for these increasingly horrible skill errors is that players are in two minds as to what they are supposed to do. Players who are in the clear and screaming for the ball in the corridor are ignored in favour of kicking to a pack, and next thing the ball bounces back out of our forward half. This has been happening all games this season, though we managed to control the ball in some of those games and were not badly disadvantaged, but yesterday was something else- it's poor team discipline.
I don't like laying into the coach, but it's not just the players who need a kick- yesterday revealed a lot of problems in structures and player strengths and weaknesses. Richo seems to be good at identifying and explaining the problems, but doesn't seem too good at rectifying the problems, and it's year three of his tenure- we can and should be doing better.

It's called tough love and if you are/plan to be a parent you will know it is a very necessary thing at times.
I have no doubt Richo and the coaching panel will be taking a good, hard look at themselves as well.

 

[Bigsaints]

2 games at Etihad with severely disappointing results and the field looking very cramped has me wondering if our gameplan suits larger grounds better?

I've been much happier with our games at the G', Adelaide Oval and Tassie than either at Docklands, and the excuse that we played better teams at Docklands isn't a fair description either considering we played Hawthorn in Tassie.

I think when we have more space (MCG, aurora) our players are under less pressure to execute their skills hence our gameplan can be executed. When we play at a smaller stadium, such as etihad, we are easier to pressure which effects our disposal. It doesn't help our players aren't experienced and some of our senior players aren't our better ball users

 

[plugger66]

It's called tough love and if you are/plan to be a parent you will know it is a very necessary thing at times.
I have no doubt Richo and the coaching panel will be taking a good, hard look at themselves as well.

Does it help the next week though? With the professionalism of footy these days it will come down to the work they do on and off the track this week. I don't reckon any yelling at players will have any effect at all come Saturday. And I'm a parent and have a great daughter and we made a rule of no yelling. We just talked very very loud.

 

[Jade Buddha]

In my experience, coaches who need to berate the players after poor effort, are probably not getting their message across in the first place. One of a coach's responsibilities is to motivate and have the team switched-on for the start of the game.
I could see no real game-plan yesterday, and the forward structure especially was all over the shop. I think one of the reasons for these increasingly horrible skill errors is that players are in two minds as to what they are supposed to do. Players who are in the clear and screaming for the ball in the corridor are ignored in favour of kicking to a pack, and next thing the ball bounces back out of our forward half. This has been happening all games this season, though we managed to control the ball in some of those games and were not badly disadvantaged, but yesterday was something else- it's poor team discipline.
I don't like laying into the coach, but it's not just the players who need a kick- yesterday revealed a lot of problems in structures and player strengths and weaknesses. Richo seems to be good at identifying and explaining the problems, but doesn't seem too good at rectifying the problems, and it's year three of his tenure- we can and should be doing better.

Perhaps they are not getting their message across because some of the players don't listen or work hard enough or follow instructions.
It's considered old school to berate a player and I agree this is limited so now its all about nurturing players and managing their flaws by strategising ways for them to improve and this has much merit but sometimes players just need to pull their finger out and lift their work rate. The last 2 weeks everyone was praising Richo for his strategies and game plan this week the game plan is crap.
Also just in relation to your argument are you saying if players are in the clear in the corridor and are ignored that's the coaches fault? I would think that has something to do with the individuals vision and decision making process. Some players for all their skill are just unable to think clearly under game pressure. In the game yesterday there were rarely any players in the clear on their own because very few were generating run. There was a great deal of ball watching. I think you'll find the plan is OK and that there is also a relative level of autonomy where players are given freedom to make decisions for themselves.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Does it help the next week though? With the professionalism of footy these days it will come down to the work they do on and off the track this week. I don't reckon any yelling at players will have any effect at all come Saturday. And I'm a parent and have a great daughter and we made a rule of no yelling. We just talked very very loud.

Yes

Don't know him from a bar of soap, but just the way Richo behaves in the coaches box ( unlike many others) I seriously doubt yelling is his modus operandi.
However, nothing like a flea in the ear to give a reminder about the standards expected and add a bit of impetus to the track work you mention.

 

[Tom_Wilson_55]

I think our biggest problem is Etihad more than anything...
I'd be interested to know in relation to other grounds how big Seaford is?
Our run and spread looks bloody grouse on the G and I just feel like it's far too restricted at Etihad.

 

[bird_man]

I think our biggest problem is Etihad more than anything...
I'd be interested to know in relation to other grounds how big Seaford is?
Our run and spread looks bloody grouse on the G and I just feel like it's far too restricted at Etihad.

While I agree with you that we look much better with space, look at how the Dogs play at Etihad, hopefully we can do the same!

 

[Tom_Wilson_55]

While I agree with you that we look much better with space, look at how the Dogs play at Etihad, hopefully we can do the same!

Yeah you're not wrong with that one, good call.
Would love to see us and the dogs going head-to-head in a few years.

 

[Stewart66]

We do 80% of it right.... The Switch, Defensively, Zoning and rotating onto opponents.

We just can't hit the side of a barn with our kicks inside 50.

When you have a midfield where the probability of nailing a target on the chest is:

Armitage; 6/10
Steven; 3/10
Newnes; 4/10
Billings; 7/10
Ross; 3/10
Dunstan; 3/10

This is why we're in trouble. Once we have a couple rolls royces, who can actually put it to advantage.... we'll be laughing all the way to a premiership.

My observation on the kicking skills is for me.

David Armitage is extremely lazy kick of the ball , wins hard in close football , lacks total concentration
when kicking , most times never looks at the ball drop to his foot.
Jack Steven could be a really good kick , but generally kicks the ball either when unbalanced or kicks
at the target rather than 5 metres diagonally to the player this allows to run into space , opposed to on top of their head.

Newnes is an excellent kick for mine
Billings is an excellent kick as we all know.

Ross has improved because he kicks the ball the distance he is comfortable with , not trying anything excessive.
The guys that are mixed bag Weller & Gilbert some times good , sometimes terrible for experienced players.

 

[The Punter]

Surely kicking accuracy is the key to the game plan here, as far as when we have the ball is concerned.

Here is my assessment of the list (the blokes who've played for St Kilda)

Hickey - good kick for 200cm+, can hit targets
Steven - extremely poor at times, other times adequate, leads team in inside 50s 2015 & 2016, join the dots.
Templeton - fine from what I have seen
Savage - a rich man's Gram by foot, can be excellent over short distances as well
Ross - can't remember a misplaced kick or mis-kick this season, isn't really ambitious with his kicking
Dunstan - much better than most give him credit for, but not an elite kick
Acres - a poor kick
Lee - an elite kick for 194cm
Montagna - only bloke who hit an inside 50 target in 1st quarter on Sunday, can butcher on occasion
Riewoldt - good when not kicking off his back foot
Lonie - usually an elite kick inside 50
Geary - not a good kick, sometimes overly ambitious
Billings - an elite kick, but not a driller
Newnes - probably the best all round kick on the team, can go those longer ambitious kicks
Roberton - a very good kick, more ambitious with decision making than backing his skills
Longer - just throws it onto the boot, stock standard 200cm+
Gilbert - can really fluff them, and is happy to be ambitious regardless of situation, which can spell disaster
Armitage - not as bad as Steven, but can butcher
Delaney - doesn't want to kick the ball
Gresham - ok from what I've seen
Goddard - a good kick
Dempster - a good long kick, not ambitious
Fisher - his decision making is his biggest kicking asset, rarely mis-kicks
Curren - quantity over quality
Bruce - a good field kick for a KPF
Membrey - another good, not great, kick
Webster - probably the most ambitious kick on the team, can be excellent
Murdoch - cannon leg
McCartin - probably better than Bruce
Wright - probably the worst kick on the list
Saunders - reasonable over shorter distances
McKenzie - handballs better than kicks (is an elite handballer)
Shenton - poor man's Gram
Minchington - very good kick
Weller - great long kick, poor short kick
Holmes - still learning