Go Rob!

[J-Train]

Prediction: Rob Shirley to go top 5 in the Crows B and F in 2007 after his 8th place finish in 2006. Go Shirls you gun!

 

[mb2326]

Prediction: Rob Shirley to go top 5 in the Crows B and F in 2007 after his 8th place finish in 2006. Go Shirls you gun!

I think he will struggle to be in the top 10 this year, a few plares will overtake him like van berlo, porps and bock. I do expect him to play the majority of our games though (barring injury of course) as he is our best stopper. I just don't think he has much room for improvement.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Prediction: Rob Shirley to go top 5 in the Crows B and F in 2007 after his 8th place finish in 2006. Go Shirls you gun!

Are you from Whyalla too?

 

[Alex99]

I think he will struggle to be in the top 10 this year, a few plares will overtake him like van berlo, porps and bock. I do expect him to play the majority of our games though (barring injury of course) as he is our best stopper. I just don't think he has much room for improvement.

Sorry but i don't agree.

Robert Shirley has plenty of improvement left in him simply for the fact that he has only just started to feel comfortable as an AFL player. He is never going to be a Luke Ball or Chris Judd Brownlow Medal but he is still an integral part of the midfield for another 3 or 4 years.

Great hands in close and very good at getting in and under the pack.

 

[Crow Envy]

Sorry but i don't agree.

Robert Shirley has plenty of improvement left in him simply for the fact that he has only just started to feel comfortable as an AFL player. He is never going to be a Luke Ball or Chris Judd Brownlow Medal but he is still an integral part of the midfield for another 3 or 4 years.

Great hands in close and very good at getting in and under the pack.

Are you kidding?

Shirley has been in the system for years and has played the last 2 as our premier tagger and only now is feeling comfortable?

What you see now with Shirley is what you will get for the next 3-4 years. He isnt a premier tagger as he does not have the pace to keep up with a Judd for example. For us to continue we need to develop a better run with player, hopefully Van Berlo could fill that role.

 

[mb2326]

Are you kidding?

Shirley has been in the system for years and has played the last 2 as our premier tagger and only now is feeling comfortable?

What you see now with Shirley is what you will get for the next 3-4 years. He isnt a premier tagger as he does not have the pace to keep up with a Judd for example. For us to continue we need to develop a better run with player, hopefully Van Berlo could fill that role.

Exactly, he in in our best 22 at the moment, but as you said "what you see is what you get". In the next couple of years there will be a few more midfielders leap frog him. Depending on how Douglas, knights etc come of I would expect he would struggle for a spot in late 2008 and beyond

 

[- PC -]

What you see now with Shirley is what you will get for the next 3-4 years. .

So a top 10 finish in the B&F for the next 3-4 years is a bad thing?

 

[NikkiNoo]

He isnt a premier tagger as he does not have the pace to keep up with a Judd for example. For us to continue we need to develop a better run with player, hopefully Van Berlo could fill that role.

Umm actually go and watch those games - Shirley is one of the few taggers that is very effective on Judd.

 

[GoSarge]

Umm actually go and watch those games - Shirley is one of the few taggers that is very effective on Judd.

Spot on.

 

[J-Train]

Are you kidding?

Shirley has been in the system for years and has played the last 2 as our premier tagger and only now is feeling comfortable?

What you see now with Shirley is what you will get for the next 3-4 years. He isnt a premier tagger as he does not have the pace to keep up with a Judd for example. For us to continue we need to develop a better run with player, hopefully Van Berlo could fill that role.

At this stage, I'd say Shirls goes on the magnet board before Van Berlo each week.

He goes well on Judd! Only player I've seen tear him a new one every time they've matched up is Simon Black, and Shirls would'nt be the lone ranger there.

 

[Sanguinarius]

What you see now with Shirley is what you will get for the next 3-4 years. He isnt a premier tagger as he does not have the pace to keep up with a Judd for example. For us to continue we need to develop a better run with player, hopefully Van Berlo could fill that role.

Disagree with everything you've said here.

And I'd be extremely dissapointed if Van Berlo only ever managed to be a "run with player"

 

[Crow Envy]

Umm actually go and watch those games - Shirley is one of the few taggers that is very effective on Judd.

I dont miss a game so you can throw that one liner out.

Very Effective? That happened in maybe one game about 2-3 years ago, since then Judd has carved us up. But Shirleys reputation of being effective on Judd has carried on.

 

[Crow Envy]

Disagree with everything you've said here.

And I'd be extremely dissapointed if Van Berlo only ever managed to be a "run with player"

So you think there is going to be a sudden burst of improvement from Shirley do you? Shirley as a player is not going to get any better and if you think thats the case, whats held him back until now?

And yes I would also be disappointed if that was Van Berlos long term future, I am talking about the next few years whilst he builds his career.

 

[Sanguinarius]

Very Effective? That happened in maybe one game about 2-3 years ago, since then Judd has carved us up. But Shirleys reputation of being effective on Judd has carried on.

wrong again. He has dont well on Judd.

and even the times he hasn't, have you seen Judd play? you know, premier player in the competition and all? Judd SHOULD be beating Shirley.

 

[Crow Envy]

wrong again. He has dont well on Judd.

and even the times he hasn't, have you seen Judd play? you know, premier player in the competition and all? Judd SHOULD be beating Shirley.

last years results,

Rd 2 judd 23 possessions
Rd 17 judd 21 possessions (and he was crook)
Preliminary final Judd 29 possessions topped WC possession

We all know how good Judd is, thats not in dispute. But Shirley has built his reputation on containing Judd. I would think if you are tagging someone youd want them under 20 possessions especially the way Judd uses the ball and especially in a preliminary final!

and you are missing the point, Crows98 stated Shirley was going to improve as he is now comfortable. Im stating he wont.

 

[Alex99]

last years results,

Rd 2 judd 23 possessions
Rd 17 judd 21 possessions (and he was crook)
Preliminary final Judd 29 possessions topped WC possession

We all know how good Judd is, thats not in dispute. But Shirley has built his reputation on containing Judd. I would think if you are tagging someone youd want them under 20 possessions especially the way Judd uses the ball and especially in a preliminary final!

IIRC Robert Harvey got like 35 touches in the 1997 GF and Kane Johnson basically tagged him out of the game and did a wonderful job.

Chris Judd (or any player) can get 50 touches in a game but you have to judge what happens after that possession to determine the effectiveness of the possession. If the tagger is there to place pressure on the ball handler and creates a turn over, who cares how many times that player gets it.

It’s all about quality not quantity

 

[J-Train]

IIRC Robert Harvey got like 35 touches in the 1997 GF and Kane Johnson basically tagged him out of the game and did a wonderful job.

Chris Judd (or any player) can get 50 touches in a game but you have to judge what happens after that possession to determine the effectiveness of the possession. If the tagger is there to place pressure on the ball handler and creates a turn over, who cares how many times that player gets it.

It’s all about quality not quantity

You beat me too it crows98! If Judd has 25 possies, but 50% of them were under extreme pressure and not to the advantage of his side, then the tagger (oft Shirley, but not always) is doing his job well. The stats quoted are modest for Judd anway, to keep him under 30 touches is a big ask of anyone, not just Rob.

 

[J-Train]

last years results,

Rd 2 judd 23 possessions
Rd 17 judd 21 possessions (and he was crook)
Preliminary final Judd 29 possessions topped WC possession

We all know how good Judd is, thats not in dispute. But Shirley has built his reputation on containing Judd. I would think if you are tagging someone youd want them under 20 possessions especially the way Judd uses the ball and especially in a preliminary final!

and you are missing the point, Crows98 stated Shirley was going to improve as he is now comfortable. Im stating he wont.

I think, correct if I am wrong, that Shirls played on Daniel Kerr in the PF. Kept him to stuff all in the first half and then Kerr got a heap of it in the second half when WC got on a roll and the game really opened up.

 

[maccas_no1]

Sorry but i don't agree.

Robert Shirley has plenty of improvement left in him simply for the fact that he has only just started to feel comfortable as an AFL player. He is never going to be a Luke Ball or Chris Judd Brownlow Medal but he is still an integral part of the midfield for another 3 or 4 years.

Great hands in close and very good at getting in and under the pack.

So if Shirley has improvement, why doesnt Massie

 

[maccas_no1]

Are you from Whyalla too?

Ahhhh Whyalla, my brother went to primary school with Shirley.

 

[Crow Envy]

IIRC Robert Harvey got like 35 touches in the 1997 GF and Kane Johnson basically tagged him out of the game and did a wonderful job.

Chris Judd (or any player) can get 50 touches in a game but you have to judge what happens after that possession to determine the effectiveness of the possession. If the tagger is there to place pressure on the ball handler and creates a turn over, who cares how many times that player gets it.

It’s all about quality not quantity

So how many times do you see Judd butcher the ball?

I watched the 97 final the other day, Harvey still played well. Taking nothing away from Kane but it helped that we smashed Harvey on about 4 occasions.

 

[maccas_no1]

I take that as a NO, seeya wouldnt wanna be ya.

You said Massie has no room for improvement yet you think Shirley does, please explain your reasoning, that simple enough for you????

Thats all Im asking nothing more.

 

[Crow Envy]

Shirley like Massie like Doughty and a number of other players are good footballers. I am not having a go at them and until we get better players they are of course going to stay on our list. Craig has done a great job in getting the best out of these players. But as the last 2 years have shown we have not been good enough to win the flag. This can only come from introducing new players who have to be better than what we replace. We are all hoping some of the juniors we have on that list are, otherwise we can kiss goodbye any hope of a premiership soon.

 

[maccas_no1]

Shirley like Massie like Doughty and a number of other players are good footballers. I am not having a go at them and until we get better players they are of course going to stay on our list. Craig has done a great job in getting the best out of these players. But as the last 2 years have shown we have not been good enough to win the flag. This can only come from introducing new players who have to be better than what we replace. We are all hoping some of the juniors we have on that list are, otherwise we can kiss goodbye any hope of a premiership soon.

Hence why Im asking C98 why Shirley will improve but Massie wont??? Hence why I say the rebuild has already begun and we wont win the flag this year, maybe this makes my reasoning a little clearer.

 

[Alex99]

You said Massie has no room for improvement yet you think Shirley does, please explain your reasoning, that simple enough for you????

Thats all Im asking nothing more.

Kris Massie is just a glorified receiver who can break the lines and play his position; Robert Shirley is a player who has the ability to get in and under and win the hard ball. He is normally at the bottom of the packs and dishes it out to receiver like Massie can continue to break the line and help the transition from defense to offence.

We have quite a few receivers who can play Kris Massie position, we only 2 or 3 players who get on there hands and knees to win the hard ball at the bottom of packs like Robert Shirley does. That’s why Kris Massie could quite easily be expendable at the end of this season if other players step up.