Gold Coast Suns AFL Funding - Return on value

[HairyO]

GC gives Victorian ex-pats the chance to go to the footy every second week. Their kids will be Suns fans. Unfortunately there are very few southerners west of Sydney, so they will always struggle.

When Tassie join, it will seem like they have always been in the comp. Their footy history, passion and full stadiums will bring a totally different vibe to GC and GWS. It will be like when the Crows or WC entered.

People arent going to Gold Coast games. That is the problem.

Tassie is the interesting one. Will people in Launceston (and the rest of the north coast) regularly travel to Hobart to watch games? Or after a couple of years are they going to be the Hobart team?

 

[Walshawk]

People arent going to Gold Coast games. That is the problem.

Tassie is the interesting one. Will people in Launceston (and the rest of the north coast) regularly travel to Hobart to watch games? Or after a couple of years are they going to be the Hobart team?

There will be four games in Launceston. They won’t have to drive to Hobart.

 

[Clark G]

There will be four games in Launceston. They won’t have to drive to Hobart.

Is that confirmed?

 

[Walshawk]

Is that confirmed?

The AFL obviously dies the fixture but that has been the position of the Devils since day 1. York Park has a fully funded upgrade and expansion about to commence,

 

[GC2015]

It’s a multigenerational plan.

At this stage the Swans were in their 2nd bankruptcy and the Daily Telegraph was demanding a name and colours change.

Don’t be the NRL with zero patience, patience works.

The generational plan is already starting to bear fruit at the grassroots level, as everyone is already aware given the much publicised first round picks from the Suns Academy last year. It's more than that, though. There was an article in the Herald Sun yesterday that interviewed potential top 10 Leo Lombard and he stated that he was only playing footy "for fun" on the side while he was winning national championships in jiu-jitsu. That all changed when he was placed in the Suns Academy and he quit jiu-jitsu when a genuine pathway into the AFL became clear through the academy.

If the Suns Academy didn't exist, Lombard likely would have chased a career in MMA (like his famous UFC fighter father) and a top 10 pick would have been lost to the game. This, along with the extra TV money, is where the real return on value comes from the Suns existing. Growing the game at the grassroots level in expansion markets will continue to be one of the highest priorities for the AFL and the Suns are arguably doing it better than any other northern club at the moment. To only look at on field results and ignore everything else being done is to miss the point of why the Suns were established in the first place.

tl/dr - on field success is great and will eventually come for the Suns, but the real return on value is what we're seeing off field.

 

[SnusCG]

People arent going to Gold Coast games. That is the problem.

Tassie is the interesting one. Will people in Launceston (and the rest of the north coast) regularly travel to Hobart to watch games? Or after a couple of years are they going to be the Hobart team?

17th in home attendance and 15th in away attendance and above GWS in both. Seems weird to single out the Suns there.

For a team in a non-traditional football state, that has never made finals, that's honestly fine.

Watch that number jump massively if we make finals in the next few years. The amount of kids coming through the SUNS academy nowadays is proof enough that interest in the game on the Gold Coast is increasing pretty rapidly.

If you're going to be concerned about attendance numbers, I'd be more worried about Western Bulldogs, St Kilda and North Melbourne who are have fewer avenues to grow their attendance than either the SUNS or GWS and aren't sitting that much further ahead.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Could another team take their spot? Yeah sure,

Will you get the growth elsewhere? **** no, Gold Coast is the 6th biggest city in Australia, one of the top 10 highest growing area's as well

Come on dude.

Good point. The AFL needs a team in Gold Coast - the number of places that have a population that can support a full time AFL team is very limited, especially outside VIC, Wa and SA.

 

[Bjo187]

The afl could have saved a truckload of money by making the sharks the club representing the gold coast. They even promoted them into the vfl because they're arguably the best club in Australia, not in the afl.

Their winning culture, big hotel and pokies revenue and better location for a stadium just made so much sense. The argument nobody likes them in gold coast's local footy scene would have been defunct anyway, as their senior team doesn't play in the qafl now. Plus a club in the big league with the name gold coast sharks and different colours would have forged it's own identity away from Southport anyway.

Overall though the suns will come good, it just seems like a massive waste of money not tapping into that sharks resource, money that could have gone back into even more grassroots funding in qld.

I do wonder if they become too much of a financial drain long term, if you could actually merge the two teams to acquire all of that Southport sharks revenue. The suns will come good I'm confident of that, but if they came in as the sharks, they'd probably have a premiership, financial clout and be the toast of the gold coast sports scene by now.

 

[Old Man Jenkins]

Gold Coast would have gone belly up every 6 months...

Different times cos Eagles/Freo/Adelaide/Port stood on their own 2 feet and AFL took money off them and gave it to Gold Coast. That is the difference for sure

Port have never been able to stand on their own two feet, they've always been a financial drain on the SANFL and AFL. The only reason Port still exist is because the AFL need a game in SA every week for the TV rights.

Gold Coast and GWS are in growth areas, so compared to Port they're a different kettle of fish. The AFL is growing at a rapid rate on the Gold Coast and we're seeing more players being provided for the talent pool as a result.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Port have never been able to stand on their own two feet, they've always been a financial drain on the SANFL and AFL. The only reason Port still exist is because the AFL need a game in SA every week for the TV rights.

Gold Coast and GWS are in growth areas, so compared to Port they're a different kettle of fish. The AFL is growing at a rapid rate on the Gold Coast and we're seeing more players being provided for the talent pool as a result.

Actually agree with this entirely after I looked at Ports finances more closely. I didnt realise they take in so little revenue compared to Adelaide when I posted that. It actually baffles me a bit. Koch should focus more on finances then talking about what colour shirt they wear

 

[GC2015]

Gold Coast and GWS are in growth areas, so compared to Port they're a different kettle of fish. The AFL is growing at a rapid rate on the Gold Coast and we're seeing more players being provided for the talent pool as a result.

That's the big takeaway with the Gold Coast. From the AFL's persepective, teams have different KPIs from a return perspective and a big one for the Suns is growth within the local market, which is improving when you look at the increase in draftable talent coming out of the GC + the continual increase of junior participation year on year. Eddie McGuire once labelled the Gold Coast and GWS as "marketing teams" so that probably tells you everything you need to know about the way these teams are viewed from an AFL admin perspective. It's a very different way of looking at it when compared to the average footy fans that just looks at ladder positions and uses that as their sole way of determining whether a team is succeeding or not.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

That's the big takeaway with the Gold Coast. From the AFL's persepective, teams have different KPIs from a return perspective and a big one for the Suns is growth within the local market, which is improving when you look at the increase in draftable talent coming out of the GC + the continual increase of junior participation year on year. Eddie McGuire once labelled the Gold Coast and GWS as "marketing teams" so that probably tells you everything you need to know about the way these teams are viewed from an AFL admin perspective. It's a very different way of looking at it when compared to the average footy fans that just looks at ladder positions and uses that as their sole way of determining whether a team is succeeding or not.

AFL is a business though, not a feelgood dream factory.

The AFL should simply do the maths when it comes to profit/loss. Anything else is just pandering at the expense of everyone else. Every other member outside of Gold Coast/GWS is funding this stuff. We all play more on our memberships to cover your losses when its all said and done. People obviously put up with it but doesnt really make it right or smart

If AFL took that money they could invest it a hell of alot better in other areas. Prime example being the insane lack of indigenous talent we have coming through the junior ranks which really is lost because they turned their focus to surfer boys on the East coast instead, fundamentally replacing one group with another and in doing so losing more profit as a result

The last 5 years has seen a huge drop off in young talent and that is primarily caused by investment in the wrong areas. If you invest in 20 13 year olds in a AFL academy in a non AFL state as opposed to say the WAFL colts which brings a HEAP more players in at a better cost ratio then you are going to end up with poorer talent... which is exactly whats happening

Gold Coast and GWS being talked about as a good investment is ideology only. It comes with no proof of success. Thats the issue I have and continue to. If AFL cant prove its success its probably because it isnt successful

 

[GC2015]

The AFL should simply do the maths when it comes to profit/loss.

That's a far too simplistic criteria for the goal of growth in an expansion market. This is why they're in charge and footy fans who hold that perspective aren't. The main goal of the Suns venture is to grow at the game at the grassroots level in the sixth largest market in Australia and eventually turn the Gold Coast into a footy city. Achieve that and the profits will come later. It's a long term takeover strategy.

Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

That's a far too simplistic criteria for the goal of growth in an expansion market. This is why they're in charge and footy fans who hold that perspective aren't. The main goal of the Suns venture is to grow at the game at the grassroots level in the sixth largest market in Australia and eventually turn the Gold Coast into a footy city. Achieve that and the profits will come later. It's a long term takeover strategy.

Short term pain for long term gain.

This is far too simplistic. If you invest 350 million dollars, you need to measure its success against alternate investment paths yeah? Being happy it grew isnt the actual result. Its a physical impossiblity to not achieve that. If you give a guy free tickets to a sporting event or free coaching clinics, they are probably going to participate so of course your goal will be achieved. The actual measure is, is that money being fully utilised or is it better spent elsewhere?

I think if you look at the current product and the significant drop of footballing talent coming in through the draft the money to grow the game hasnt been a real success. All thats been achieved is the money spent in Gold Coast and West Sydney has seen S.A and W.A participation post grassroots fall by the wayside as their is simply not enough money at SANFL/WAFL level to take the grassroots level players and get them into the colts system like we were able too in the past.

All up no matter how you draw this up, you have signficant ways to counter the view of this being a successful venture, whole those trying to state it is a success merely have 1 talking point and 1 talking point only. A few more people in a different location are playing football so yay. I mean hardly a great way to spend 600 mill (GWS + Gold Coast investment so far)

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

17th in home attendance and 15th in away attendance and above GWS in both. Seems weird to single out the Suns there.

For a team in a non-traditional football state, that has never made finals, that's honestly fine.

Watch that number jump massively if we make finals in the next few years. The amount of kids coming through the SUNS academy nowadays is proof enough that interest in the game on the Gold Coast is increasing pretty rapidly.

If you're going to be concerned about attendance numbers, I'd be more worried about Western Bulldogs, St Kilda and North Melbourne who are have fewer avenues to grow their attendance than either the SUNS or GWS and aren't sitting that much further ahead.

Spot on

GWS needs to be relocated to Canberra. Their crowds, while contending for a premiership, have been pathetic. Once the slip to the bottom 4, 3 people will turn up. I've said before, Western Sydney don't give a shit about the Giants.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

The GC and GWS experiments have failed

 

[fnerd]

The GC and GWS experiments have failed

Yep north should of been forced to the GC

 

[GAS PANIC]

Spot on

GWS needs to be relocated to Canberra. Their crowds, while contending for a premiership, have been pathetic. Once the slip to the bottom 4, 3 people will turn up. I've said before, Western Sydney don't give a shit about the Giants.

I'd argue the opposite. Playing 4 games in Canberra prevents the Giants from building themselves as truely representative of Western Sydney. They should concentrate their efforts on playing all their home games at Homebush or in that general area.

 

[GAS PANIC]

The GC and GWS experiments have failed

This is a long term project which will take decades to build strong foundations.

North have been in the VFL/AFL for 100 years. If you sought an unbiased opinion based on that sample size you might find it is their introduction which is more aptly described as a failed experiment.

 

[Roylion]

The GC and GWS experiments have failed

The Suns and Giants were always medium to long term projects.

2050 projected populations (Australia is projected to have 37.6 million)

• Sydney - 7.7 million
• South East Queensland - 6 million (including Gold Coast's 1.1 million and Brisbane's 4.2 million).

The initial investment in the Suns and Giants will pay off handsomely in the coming decades.

 

[GC2015]

This is far too simplistic. If you invest 350 million dollars, you need to measure its success against alternate investment paths yeah? Being happy it grew isnt the actual result. Its a physical impossiblity to not achieve that. If you give a guy free tickets to a sporting event or free coaching clinics, they are probably going to participate so of course your goal will be achieved. The actual measure is, is that money being fully utilised or is it better spent elsewhere?

I think if you look at the current product and the significant drop of footballing talent coming in through the draft the money to grow the game hasnt been a real success. All thats been achieved is the money spent in Gold Coast and West Sydney has seen S.A and W.A participation post grassroots fall by the wayside as their is simply not enough money at SANFL/WAFL level to take the grassroots level players and get them into the colts system like we were able too in the past.

All up no matter how you draw this up, you have signficant ways to counter the view of this being a successful venture, whole those trying to state it is a success merely have 1 talking point and 1 talking point only. A few more people in a different location are playing football so yay. I mean hardly a great way to spend 600 mill (GWS + Gold Coast investment so far)

It sounds like you're frustrated that WA football has fallen away (and perhaps the Eagles as well) in the last 5-10 years and you're looking for a direction to place the blame. Gold Coast and GWS are an easy target for those looking to blame the AFL for their problems. This is in line with the St Kilda mentality we've recently seen that involves looking for others to blame instead of looking internally and asking the tough questions that need to be asked to fix things.

FWIW I believe it's far too early to actually assess whether Gold Coast has been a success from a return standpoint. The AFL has always maintained that the Suns venture was a 25-30 year proposition and they were set up with that in mind. So that means we're still another 10-15 years away from being able to assess it properly.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

It sounds like you're frustrated that WA football has fallen away (and perhaps the Eagles as well) in the last 5-10 years and you're looking for a direction to place the blame. Gold Coast and GWS are an easy target for those looking to blame the AFL for their problems. This is in line with the St Kilda mentality we've recently seen that involves looking for others to blame instead of looking internally and asking the tough questions that need to be asked to fix things.

FWIW I believe it's far too early to actually assess whether Gold Coast has been a success from a return standpoint. The AFL has always maintained that the Suns venture was a 25-30 year proposition and they were set up with that in mind. So that means we're still another 10-15 years away from being able to assess it properly.

Im frustrated that WA football has fallen away. Eagles not really a part of it that much. I know its a lack of funding because literally every WAFL Colts team has said "its a lack of funding" . This isnt some magical secret. Its known and nothings done about it. Im talking about poor direction of money because its being stated as the problem by many many people.

25-30 year proposition is a load of baloney. Thats a invented figure that basically came after the realisation that this move was going to be a deadset failure. Writing on the wall existed very early on and as opposed to saying they made a mistake they just re invented the idea of what a mistake or success would be. It kinda proves my point. If you dont expect a return on investment for 30 years its therefore a poor investment. How many companies walking around saying "Just wait til 2050, then its really gonna pay off" . None because its a goal no one would ever aim for.