Great Orators #1 - Adolf Hitler

[Dry Rot]

Just watching "The World at War" right now, and reminded what a great orator Hitler was.

Have been interested in 1930 + 1940s history for most of my life, but never understood how Hitler did it until I saw Leni Riefenstihl's (sp?) film "Triumph of the Will".

Should explain very clearly I have absolutely no sympathies towards him and his mates but he was a great orator and motivator for an evil cause. As was Goebels.

Churchill was pretty good too, but I don't recall any great Stalin speeches.

Who else was a great orator/political motivator of the 20th Century?

 

[CharlieG]

Wasn't Hitler's brilliant speaking voice due to being gassed in WW1? I believe it did something to his vocal chords which helped his voice to carry.

Lenin was supposed to be pretty damn good, too, unfortunately only a few seconds of footage survive.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Lenin and Trotsky would be my two other nominations. Both were meant to be fantastic speakers.

 

[Dry Rot]

Wasn't Hitler's brilliant speaking voice due to being gassed in WW1? I believe it did something to his vocal chords which helped his voice to carry.

Interesting point, but I was more thinking about the content. Always remember a scene from "Triumh of the Will" when he was addressing a group of labourers.

He made them feel like they were the most important people in the Reich.

 

[Dry Rot]

Lenin and Trotsky would be my two other nominations. Both were meant to be fantastic speakers.

Would be fascinating to see some good footage. Interesting that Smoking Joe doesn't rate.

 

[- PC -]

Interesting point, but I was more thinking about the content. Always remember a scene from "Triumh of the Will" when he was addressing a group of labourers.

He made them feel like they were the most important people in the Reich.

I agree content is so important. Some of JFKs speeches are great yet others are so dry.

I find the better speakers are those who dont care about content but speak from the heart.

Some say Gough was a great speaker away from the speechwriters

 

[CharlieG]

Interesting point, but I was more thinking about the content. Always remember a scene from "Triumh of the Will" when he was addressing a group of labourers.

He made them feel like they were the most important people in the Reich.

On the subject of Triumph of the Will, have you ever compared the footage of Hitler arriving in Nuremburg, and Kennedy on that fateful trip through Dallas?

 

[Dry Rot]

On the subject of Triumph of the Will, have you ever compared the footage of Hitler arriving in Nuremburg, and Kennedy on that fateful trip through Dallas?

No - sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

Yes, JFK is a good call here for a great orator. Can't think of too many other US Presidents who were really great in this sense. Roosevelt?

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Would be fascinating to see some good footage. Interesting that Smoking Joe doesn't rate.

Saw one of Smoking Joe's speeches on Archive Footage earlier this year, sleep inducing stuff. Probably means I wouldn't have lasted too long in 1930's Russia.


As far as Trotsky goes, there's some amazing Transcripts of the speeches he gave from the back of "The Train" in the Civil War, would be incredibly inspirational in person.

If you want to rate Prime Ministers here, you have to look at their work during question time. Gough and Keating are the best I've seen in that regard.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

No - sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

Yes, JFK is a good call here for a great orator. Can't think of too many other US Presidents who were really great in this sense. Roosevelt?

FDR would be the only other President that comes to mind. The "fireside chats" were very well delivered, if not terribly original, and allowed him to relate to the people on a closer level in the depression.

 

[Dry Rot]

FDR would be the only other President that comes to mind. The "fireside chats" were very well delivered, if not terribly original, and allowed him to relate to the people on a closer level in the depression.

Wilson? Theodore Roosevelt? Wouldn't rate Truman, Eisenhower or Nixon in this regard.

What about Brit PMs? Others? de Gaulle?

 

[CharlieG]

No - sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

There's just an uncanny resemblance between the two. Demonstrates better than any essay or debate ever will that the offices of 'Fuhrer' and 'President' are more alike than some like to admit.

If you ever get a chance, watch both of them at the same time. Watch the crowds, the flags etc.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Wilson? Theodore Roosevelt? Wouldn't rate Truman, Eisenhower or Nixon in this regard.

What about Brit PMs? Others? de Gaulle?

Wilson's a toughie, haven't heard much of his wartime stuff. Theodore Roosevelt I can't comment on as I haven't seen any Transcripts of his speeches. Would add LBJ to the list of US Presidents I don't rate.


Apart from Churchill, I can't really comment on many Western European leaders as I haven't seen many of their speeches.

Pierre Trudeau is another one that comes to mind, quite a charismatic bloke.

 

[Dry Rot]

There's just an uncanny resemblance between the two. Demonstrates better than any essay or debate ever will that the offices of 'Fuhrer' and 'President' are more alike than some like to admit.

If you ever get a chance, watch both of them at the same time. Watch the crowds, the flags etc.

I can see what you mean, but I have a personal problem with that fateful day in Dallas. At the risk of revealing my age, I can remember watching that fateful day on TV.

My father was working for the Dept of Defence and in the USA at the time (he would travel to Dallas the next day) and the news and footage came through on Australian television. My mother, a fan of the Yanks and hysterical at the best of times, went troppo. "You'll never see your father again" she wailed repeatedly as she believed the world was at its end and as the footage of an open car was endlessly shown with a bloke in the back being shot.

Didn't do the world of good for a 4 year old, I can tell you.

 

[Dry Rot]

Wilson's a toughie, haven't heard much of his wartime stuff. Theodore Roosevelt I can't comment on as I haven't seen any Transcripts of his speeches. Would add LBJ to the list of US Presidents I don't rate.

LBJ had a strange career. In a sense, a patron of the space race and gained the presidency in the worst circumstances. Who did he beat in '64? That crazy Goldwater?

And of course, the Vietnam War....

 

[O'Brien]

No - sounds interesting. Please elaborate.

Yes, JFK is a good call here for a great orator. Can't think of too many other US Presidents who were really great in this sense. Roosevelt?

I think it pertinent to distinguish between an orator (an eloquent speaker and a great weaver of words) and a communicator (someone who has the ability to make others understand). Whilst JFK was a very good communicator, many would contend that he was not an exemplary orator. Indeed with the advent of television, speechwriters and various other speaking aids, the art of oration seem to have been lost.

Certainly Churchill can be considered a great orator; Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were both eloquent speakers. Then you have the great Western orators of the 19th century, people like Disraeli and Gladstone. Indeed Disraeli was renowned for his eloquence and wit, here are some examples:

“My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me”.
“The disappointment of manhood succeeds the delusion of youth”
“In politics, nothing is contemptible.”
“He has not a single redeeming defect” [on Gladstone]
And most probably his most famous quote:

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”

http://en.proverbia.net/citasautor.asp?autor=12057&page=1

 

[afc9798]

International= Churchill, Roosevelt or Hitler

Australian= Keating, Whitlam, Chifley

British= Menzies

 

[Tim56]

Billy Hughes!

 

[afc9798]

Billy Hughes!

Right up there with floppy chops Gorton!! A good man, but an orator not.

 

[MGREG]

Linda Lovelace

 

[London Dave]

Indeed with the advent of television, speechwriters and various other speaking aids, the art of oration seem to have been lost.

Heard a 'debate' on the radio the other day on this, saying Ian Paisley was the last of the 'orators' left in UK politics. The rest are all made for/by TV. I've heard quite a few political leaders bot here and in Oz speak at semi private kind of meetings. It's amazing sometimes the difference in their TV personas. Your point regarding communicator vs orator and TV is correct. Hitler woulda looked a ******** on TV I reckon!

My father always lamented the end of Australian policy launches that banned hecklers. Although not qualifying as great oration, this one isn't bad. I think it was Menzies who was heckled by a woman saying
"I wouldn't vote for you if you were God."
to which he replied
"If I was God you wouldn't be in my electorate."



TV has definately taken the some of the fun outta politics!

 

[Dry Rot]

Your point regarding communicator vs orator and TV is correct. Hitler woulda looked a ******** on TV I reckon!

Not so sure about this - he looked pretty good on film footage.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Hearing the speeches of Stalin I am always surprised by his high girly voice. The standard of oratory has diminished because very few people write their own speeches, have read any books or speak "from the stump" anymore.

On the issue of LBJ he is a seriously underated president he inherited Vietnam from the hawkish "best and brightest" that surrounded Kennedy, he was the one to pass the Civil Rights Act and his spending on welfare projects like the "Great Society" were leached away by the ever increasing spending on the war in Vietnam. Great speaker as well.

FDR "Government by organised money is as bad as government by organised mob" - how things have changed Enron,Haliburton etc etc etc

By the way Merry Christmas everybody - particulary the right wingers on this board. Things can get pretty heated on this Board occassionally but we should all be glad we live in a place where debate is part of the political discourse.

 

[F/D]

Ted Whitten....

 

[Ghostwriter]

There's just an uncanny resemblance between the two. Demonstrates better than any essay or debate ever will that the offices of 'Fuhrer' and 'President' are more alike than some like to admit.

If you ever get a chance, watch both of them at the same time. Watch the crowds, the flags etc.

Sounds fascinating but tell me how am I ever going to be able to watch both together?, and I'm being serious.