Greyhound Thread Pt. II

[IcTrix]

Where did it finish?

5th. But was absolutely woeful at box rise and a clear last. Wound up late and only finished around 1.5L off the 2nd placed dog. Was pounding home.

 

[Brenno]

Devonport race 5- #2 1.5 u e/w, or just lay off the 5 on betfair

 

[Saggynuts]

Who is the steward sacked for punting. Heard he was not punting at the meetings he worked at but it does not matter they say.

 

[Beauy420]

Grafton Rc12 #8 Miss Joyful

Dont take anything too short for this pup, very speedy and just wins if it jumps well but its her first start away from the grass track (casino) so could be risky.


Gardens Rc9 #1 Ultimate Dust Up

Huge potential in this pup, been racing really well over at Maitland, i think will handle the step up in class easily, inside draw suits.


Geelong Rc6 #1 Enflame

Speedy Dog, inside draw and track + distance suits well. Should Win.


These dogs should all start favourite IMO but we'll see what thew market does, anything 3+ for any of these is huge value.

 

[Beauy420]

Ninganar in the 10th at Wentworth

 

[cleveland]

42 winners 41 seconds & 43 thirds for Winningglory wasn't a bad years work at all and hopefully 2012 ends up bigger. Next year we should have dogs racing in Vic, Nsw, Sa, Wa & Tassie with Qld joining in hopefully in 2013. Big thanks to all our trainers who put the hard yards in all year round so we can enjoy watching our dogs race.
Just a mention of a couple of our trainers who have had a excellent 2011.

Lyn Smith & Joe Borg who had 66 winners between them here in Vic & Brad Cook who had over 100 winners for the year over in Western Australia. That is a massive effort.

Cheers i wish everyone all the best in 2012

 

[Beauy420]

Grafton Rc12 #8 Miss Joyful Scratched

Dont take anything too short for this pup, very speedy and just wins if it jumps well but its her first start away from the grass track (casino) so could be risky.


Gardens Rc9 #1 Ultimate Dust Up 1st 1.50

Huge potential in this pup, been racing really well over at Maitland, i think will handle the step up in class easily, inside draw suits.


Geelong Rc6 #1 Enflame Unplcaced

Speedy Dog, inside draw and track + distance suits well. Should Win.


These dogs should all start favourite IMO but we'll see what thew market does, anything 3+ for any of these is huge value.

Average day the other day, just one bet for the night i reckon

Launceston race 1 #1 Decibel

Bathurst race 10 #2 Entrust, will take 2.50+ for value, dont back if shorter.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Since i've been on holidays I've ben spending a few days here and there at the Pub TAB with mates.

Fair dinkum, how horse racing is so popular I have no idea.

It has to be the absolute worst sport on the planet to bet on. Woefully biased tracks, woeful jockeys and awful fields.

Really does make one appreciate the greatness that is Greyhound racing and also makes one perplexed as to why people haven't woken up to the fact it's a far better punting proposition.

 

[The_Doctor]

Since i've been on holidays I've ben spending a few days here and there at the Pub TAB with mates.

Fair dinkum, how horse racing is so popular I have no idea.

It has to be the absolute worst sport on the planet to bet on. Woefully biased tracks, woeful jockeys and awful fields.

Really does make one appreciate the greatness that is Greyhound racing and also makes one perplexed as to why people haven't woken up to the fact it's a far better punting proposition.

Greyhound racing has woefully biased tracks and awful fields as well. Dogs easing, fighting and pulling up dont sit well when i back them either

My guess is you just have no idea about horse racing or what you are betting on and as a result lost money on it

By the way i love greyhound racing! But lets not make out its more than it actually is

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Greyhound racing has woefully biased tracks and awful fields as well. Dogs easing, fighting and pulling up dont sit well when i back them either

The difference is you know which tracks have bias and can make selections based on that.

Horse racing you have to watch multiple races and only then work out there's a bad bias.

And even then the surface of a Greyhound track doesn't effect the results like it does for a horse race.

Telesto would be lucky to win a race these days the way race track bias is in recent years.

Dogs do have their own idiosyncracies, but they still race truer than anything with a jockey on its back.

So let's not pretend the variables in a dog race are anything as numerous as those at play in a horse race.

More horses race in a style that ruins their chances of winning each day than dogs fighting or pulling up.

My guess is you just have no idea about horse racing or what you are betting on and as a result lost money on it

Well if you guess like you bet you'd never win much.

By the way i love greyhound racing! But lets not make out its more than it actually is

But it is.

Greyhound favourites salute far, FAR more regularly than Horse favourites.

Individual Greyhounds win multiple races in a row far, FAR more regularly than horse racing.

Greyhound racing track surfaces are far superior to racing tracks for having far less surface bias. How many horses can't run on certain surfaces? The answer of course is a lot.

A dog wins it goes up in grade, a horse wins it goes up in grade AND can go up in weight.

The only thing horse racing has in it's favour is the size of the pool.

And that's down to so many clueless people pumping dumb money into the pool.

 

[The_Doctor]

Cant say i agree with much you said there, a lot of the points you made about horse racing are not even negatives.

Some dogs run wide
Some dogs only rail
Some dogs are sooks and stop chasing if they dont lead
Some dogs give up when they get a bump
Some dogs dont chase and as a result ease when they hit the front
Some dogs fight
Some dogs wont go in fields
Some dogs cant handle circle tracks
Some dogs cant handle U-Turn tracks
Some dogs wont try in the mud
Some dogs wont try in the rain
etc...

Also you can get a bias on greyhound tracks. The faster the track is racing the harder it is for dogs to make ground on the leaders.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Cant say i agree with much you said there, a lot of the points you made about horse racing are not even negatives.

They are all negatives when people back them.

Some dogs run wide

That's their racing pattern. No horses deliberately run 5 wide for a whole race.

Some dogs only rail

Many horses won't race truly if they are stuck back on the rails.

Some dogs are sooks and stop chasing if they dont lead

So are many horses if they don't get a soft run out in front.

Some dogs give up when they get a bump

As do many horses. Some are off the bit from the barrier.

Some dogs dont chase and as a result ease when they hit the front

Those dogs don't last long in the industry. Unlike many horses who do the same thing and spend years going round.

Some dogs fight

Those dogs are givens bans when this happens you realise?
Probably like horses who buckjump in races.

Some dogs wont go in fields

And won't last long in the industry. Horses have the same issue too.
Trials well, runs like garbage in a race.

Some dogs cant handle circle tracks
Some dogs cant handle U-Turn tracks

Just as many horses don't handle various tracks.

More than a few horses can't handle that **** of a track Moonee Valley.

Some dogs wont try in the mud
Some dogs wont try in the rain
etc...

Where's the evidence for this?

There's lots of it for the horses, but where's the evidence for the dogs?

Also you can get a bias on greyhound tracks. The faster the track is racing the harder it is for dogs to make ground on the leaders.

That's the case if the dog chasing runs a similar time. if it's lengths quicker it has a fair chance of running the other dog down.

I haven't even raised the fact that so many horses races have pathetic sized fields and that NTD is such a common occurence these days.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Give it a rest, you are starting to sound like a real douche.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Give it a rest, you are starting to sound like a real douche.

Do I care?

Crack on with that sycophant life of yours champ.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Will do, thanks. If you need a hand paying the rent or anything after your losses, just let us know.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

The only real losers are those who rate horse racing.

 

[Beauy420]

Going to have to agree with doctor here. I was once solely a greyhound punter but once the switch is made to horse racing and it is very hard to go back.

You will never ever make money backing favorites in greyhounds, That is a fact

And in all my time I have backed one $20 winner and that was very recently, you will never get enough value to end up in front unless you can find honest types that don't appeal to punters.

Greyhound racing is also alot more unpredictable compared to horse racing especially over short/middle distance. The race usually depends entirely on how well the dogs jump.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Going to have to agree with doctor here. I was once solely a greyhound punter but once the switch is made to horse racing and it is very hard to go back.

You will never ever make money backing favorites in greyhounds, That is a fact

And in all my time I have backed one $20 winner and that was very recently, you will never get enough value to end up in front unless you can find honest types that don't appeal to punters.

Greyhound racing is also alot more unpredictable compared to horse racing especially over short/middle distance. The race usually depends entirely on how well the dogs jump.

That's the only thing in horse racings favour, the size of the pools.

I don't see how greyhound racing is less predictable when as you say, big priced roughies get up on a far less regular basis than horse racing.

There's that many examples of horses with absolutely no form getting up and winning it's not funny.

Imo greyhounds are more predictable.

And no offence, but it's that attitude that horse racing is superior to greyhound racing i've been hearing for 20 years that comes from horse punting bellends that gets on my nerve.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

The race usually depends entirely on how well the dogs jump.

How is that any different to how a jockey rides the horse?

Let's be honest, of all the jockeys in Australia you'd struggle to find 20-30actual good ones.

 

[Beauy420]

How is that any different to how a jockey rides the horse?

Let's be honest, of all the jockeys in Australia you'd struggle to find 20-30actual good ones.

Yeah I agree jockeys bring a different variable. In greyhound racing approximately 70% of leaders win, and that is based soley on the getting a start because the races are generally so short. In horse racing I don't think even 20% of leaders win.

And while you'll find dogs that are good starters and some that aren't, it will always be extremely unpredictable.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Yeah I agree jockeys bring a different variable. In greyhound racing approximately 70% of leaders win, and that is based soley on the getting a start because the races are generally so short. In horse racing I don't think even 20% of leaders win.

And while you'll find dogs that are good starters and some that aren't, it will always be extremely unpredictable.

I disagree with that 20% stat for the horses.

I think it would be the other way around. Horses winning from coming from the back of the field would be 20% or less.

So many races now are won from horses that have raced in the first few horses for the trip.

As soon as running rails are put out that too means nothing wins from coming back off the pace.

Seen more than a few meetings that are a farce for the leader bias involved.

The way race tracks are these days, they are like the bias you suggest occurs on greyhound tracks.

 

[Beauy420]

I disagree with that 20% stat for the horses.

I think it would be the other way around. Horses winning from coming from the back of the field would be 20% or less.

So many races now are won from horses that have raced in the first few horses for the trip.

As soon as running rails are put out that too means nothing wins from coming back off the pace.

Seen more than a few meetings that are a farce for the leader bias involved.

The way race tracks are these days, they are like the bias you suggest occurs on greyhound tracks.

Whats your approach to greyhound betting? Win bets? Favorites? Do you pay much attention to box draws?

I respect anyone who can prove a positive return on investment in greyhound racing.

 

[The_Doctor]

They are all negatives when people back them.




That's their racing pattern. No horses deliberately run 5 wide for a whole race.

Their racing pattern can still **** up their chances and take out dogs on their outside

Many horses won't race truly if they are stuck back on the rails.

I know, im not arguing horses are far superior to dogs im just saying dogs are not as superior to horses as you are trying to make out


So are many horses if they don't get a soft run out in front.

See above


As do many horses. Some are off the bit from the barrier.

See above

Those dogs don't last long in the industry. Unlike many horses who do the same thing and spend years going round.

Actually they can last quite a long time in the industry as they are perennial place getters

Those dogs are givens bans when this happens you realise?
Probably like horses who buckjump in races.

Yes they are given bans but they still **** up the race they do it in


And won't last long in the industry. Horses have the same issue too.
Trials well, runs like garbage in a race.

They might not last long but similar to aboyve, they screw you over in the races they do compete in

Just as many horses don't handle various tracks.

More than a few horses can't handle that **** of a track Moonee Valley.

Yes i know, my point was they are similar so thanks for helping me make that point

Where's the evidence for this?

There's lots of it for the horses, but where's the evidence for the dogs?

There is just as much evidence in dogs as there is horses! Just because the racing guide doesnt put a little "m" or "w" beside there name to show they have won in the mud doesnt mean anything. Follow each dog and you will soon find out if one doesnt handle the wet


That's the case if the dog chasing runs a similar time. if it's lengths quicker it has a fair chance of running the other dog down.

If the races are run in faster time it gives those chasing less time to catch the leader, not sure what your point is here

I haven't even raised the fact that so many horses races have pathetic sized fields and that NTD is such a common occurence these days.

Unlike dogs who only have a maximum of 8 runners and any scratchings result in NTD

I do love greyhound racing and im not putting it down, but putting it up on a pedestal where it doesnt belong doesnt do any good either.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Whats your approach to greyhound betting? Win bets? Favorites? Do you pay much attention to box draws?

I respect anyone who can prove a positive return on investment in greyhound racing.

I bet on the race and how it could pan out.

Meaning no one bet type is the only bet type one can have on a specific race. Some races a win bet is the way to go. Others it might be a quinella,trifecta or pick 4.

Personally, I avoid focusing on win bets, unless i'm extremely confident of a dogs chance. Even then I'll still key it into other forms of bet types.

It's about getting consistent collects, not once in a while huge collects.

I never look at the tote price screen when studying the form. People get put off by prices and change their bets. Once i've decided what I like, then I can look at the prices and decide what bet type suits my selctions best.

In the time friends have landed 1-2 horse quaddies, I'll have snagged 5 times that amount of the dogs.

I regulalry get dogs winning over $10. The markets arent determind by "smart" money most of the time. It's mug punters who know little about what they are betting on. Which is good as they put the money into the pool and turn a 4/1 shot into a 2/1 fave and a 5/1 shot into a 10/1 outsider.


I'm no patsy when it comes to greyhound racing. I worked in the industry for 10 years. Involved for even longer. I raced many dogs in that time. Had some success.

I was an avid student of the stud books and understood that knowing dogs breeding inside and out was a valuable tool when betting on them.

I undestood the times and how to use them to advantage.

In answer to your question, Box draws are often made too big a deal about.
It's often not the box draw, it's the position of the box at the starting point.

I.e Ballarat 550 start. Going trialing with dogs and standing behind the boxes gives a good insight into how this can effect the start of a race and what's required to overcome a "bad box draw".

Like anything it takes time to learn all this kind of stuff, but once you know it, collects become more regular because you cut your losses by knowing what and when to avoid something.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I do love greyhound racing and im not putting it down, but putting it up on a pedestal where it doesnt belong doesnt do any good either.

It belongs above horse racing, not on a pedestal.

Too many years of bias have people brainwashed into thinking horse racing is this wonderful betting medium.

It's one of the worst betting mediums going around when you objectively factor in all of the variables present.

Greyhound racing(Victoria) deserves massive amounts of credit for cleaning its sport up and making it incredibly proffesional and well ran outfit.

Horse racing these days depsite all the money is still full of cowboys and dodgy dealings. Open the paper any day and there's always some shit fight going on between, a trainer, a jockey or the stipes.

And unlike Greyhound racing where by it's still about the dogs themselves, horse racing has less to do with the horses and more about the rubbish overated social side of it as each year passes.

Which is why once the bubbly get put away, nobody goes and watches it.