News Griffiths plots his return

[Tiger_Stripes]

Can we shut up about why we picked him and stay on topic about his recovery?

Why do all these threads turn into dick measuring contests of who can write the longest slag post. Cards or deleted posts please mods, there's so much "harping on about a point continuously" I can hear orchestral music.

 

[El Tigre]

No need to even mention he did bugger all. They were his first 5 games in his career and he did his job of supporting Reiwoldt and doing the occasional thing himself

Jesus some of you ppl are hard markers, what did bling show in his first 5 games and we kept him on the list for 6 years, gice the kid a break.

I think he will become a 150 game player for us BTW

Take a chill pill guys. I was just pointing out the obvious, and not saying that i'm peeved that he didn't score 5 goals in each game, or not making any blazen predictions as to if he will or won't make it. When i said i didn't expect much more, i was meaning you have to give KP players time in their first years. I think you missed my point. I didn't think my post was that hard to interpret, but obviously so. I'll try and be clearer next time.

 

[SA TIGER]

Hey, you Griffiths knockers, give the kid a break and stop being so cynical on the youngster in only his 2nd season with the club.

If he under performs within the next couple of seasons (ala Cleve Hughes & his 3 seasons for a miserly return 16 games and 23 goals) then vent your frustration!

"Why are people so unkind?"

 

[turtle27]

2005: Drafted Hughes (193cm) and rookied Graham (201).
2006: Drafted Riewoldt (allegedly 195 but I looked him in the eye last year and I reckon he's 193), took Kingsley (193) in the PSD, and traded for Polak (194).
2007: Drafted Rance (193) and Putt (200), took Gourdis (194) in the PSD, and rookied Sylvestor (190) and Cartledge (199).
2008: Drafted Vickery (200) and Post (194) and rookied Browne (203).
2009: Drafted Griffiths (198) and Astbury (195), took Grimes (193) in the PSD and rookied Westhoff (198).

Just sayin.

Perhaps santa should have added 'quality' before the talls bit. Apart from Jack, pre 2009 drafting success rates have been low to say the least.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Perhaps santa should have added 'quality' before the talls bit. Apart from Jack, pre 2009 drafting success rates have been low to say the least.

Yeah, but early picks give you the best chance to get quality players. Santa (and others) has simultaneously criticised using a pick as early as 19 on Griffiths, yet damned the club for not taking more talls in the rookie draft.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Yeah, but early picks give you the best chance to get quality players. Santa (and others) has simultaneously criticised using a pick as early as 19 on Griffiths, yet damned the club for not taking more talls in the rookie draft.

Not sure on previous threads, but in this thread, Santa has clearly stated he was happy for pick 19 to have been used on a tall, just that there were other talls that were better options.

I am hoping Griffiths plays at Coburg until he racks up some decent games.

 

[santa claws]

2005: Drafted Hughes (193cm) and rookied Graham (201).
2006: Drafted Riewoldt (allegedly 195 but I looked him in the eye last year and I reckon he's 193), took Kingsley (193) in the PSD, and traded for Polak (194).
2007: Drafted Rance (193) and Putt (200), took Gourdis (194) in the PSD, and rookied Sylvestor (190) and Cartledge (199).
2008: Drafted Vickery (200) and Post (194) and rookied Browne (203).
2009: Drafted Griffiths (198) and Astbury (195), took Grimes (193) in the PSD and rookied Westhoff (198).

Just sayin.

the playing list for 05 read as such when it came to talls.
archibald, gaspar,m graham,hall, a kellaway,knobel, limbach, mcguane, morrison, pattison, richardson, schulz, simmonds, stafford and thursfield.
15 mostly very ordinary players or aging with a handful of kids.
yep we did take hughes and rookied gus graham and took bowden as well i think sheesh.. but we delisted archibald, morrison and mark graham retired.

we went backwards or broke even depending on your rating of players.they did little to address the age of many talls and did little in the quality stakes. a second rnd pick a rookie pick and pick 55 on a proven dud. what we did was put all of our faith in very few or in one pick hughes..it was plain to see richo aging gaspar stafford simmonds kellaway all about to go.

the playing list for talls in 06 read.

bowden gaspar hall hughes kellaway knobel limbach mcguane pattison richo schulz simmonds stafford thursfield and rookie graham.
15 talls and many still ageing and the rest mostly glass half fulls.gaspar was 30 and much maligned kellaway stafford and richo all over 30 as well. hall a hack schulz struggling knobel forever injured. yep we had 15 talls but the reality was dire.only deluded ferals proclaimed that list of talls. ironic how only 3 remain from just 5 yrs ago and they too have struggled and are lucky to be on the list still.

what did we do. as you say jack, kingsley,and polak bloody hell kingsley and polak.
but to off set their arrivals kellaway stafford and limbach went.

once again we trod water how lucky were we to get jack after trading out of pick 8 to pick 13.

without going on what im trying to say is its not just about who you take. we have drafted/traded in a way that has meant all players taken have to work out for good list structure.
very few are first rounders 2 i think and one has gone already. 3 or 4 2nd rnders of which a few are early second rnd rounders. the odd third rounder as well.
is this good enough with just one proven tall player, and nearly all talls have been turned over in recent times.and to top it off we fail to top up with extra talls late nd or rookie list. i can live with us not useing early picks on talls if better rated players are there but to fail to load up is not on.


i have always advocated we take the best available with our first rounder and to a degree our second rounder as well. so you may not get a tall real early. if theres a tall and a mid closely ranked take the tall, good ones are much harder to come by.

the griffiths draft i went something like 3 morabito/martin, 19 and remember i debated long and hard about the need to get a pp we should have had 18 and 19. anyway 19 bastinac. i stated if we are to take a tall black or carlisle. 35 astbury tall 44 shaw tall 51 taylor, 67 grimes tall 71 houghton tall psd bradshaw tall .
and rookie draft daw a tall.
i also wanted us to trade for jacobs or entice him away from carlton. all this and i oipenly admitted i had seen little of the juniors so i was probably making blunders. but as far as list management went i still think a scenario like this was the way to go.
yeah i wanted bastinac but i certainly did not want us to ignore the talls either.
have maintained for awhile now if you dont take em early load up on em late.

 

[NQTIGER]

the playing list for 05 read as such when it came to talls.
archibald, gaspar,m graham,hall, a kellaway,knobel, limbach, mcguane, morrison, pattison, richardson, schulz, simmonds, stafford and thursfield.
15 mostly very ordinary players or aging with a handful of kids.
yep we did take hughes and rookied gus graham and took bowden as well i think sheesh.. but we delisted archibald, morrison and mark graham retired.

we went backwards or broke even depending on your rating of players.they did little to address the age of many talls and did little in the quality stakes. a second rnd pick a rookie pick and pick 55 on a proven dud. what we did was put all of our faith in very few or in one pick hughes..it was plain to see richo aging gaspar stafford simmonds kellaway all about to go.

the playing list for talls in 06 read.

bowden gaspar hall hughes kellaway knobel limbach mcguane pattison richo schulz simmonds stafford thursfield and rookie graham.
15 talls and many still ageing and the rest mostly glass half fulls.gaspar was 30 and much maligned kellaway stafford and richo all over 30 as well. hall a hack schulz struggling knobel forever injured. yep we had 15 talls but the reality was dire.only deluded ferals proclaimed that list of talls. ironic how only 3 remain from just 5 yrs ago and they too have struggled and are lucky to be on the list still.

what did we do. as you say jack, kingsley,and polak bloody hell kingsley and polak.
but to off set their arrivals kellaway stafford and limbach went.

once again we trod water how lucky were we to get jack after trading out of pick 8 to pick 13.

without going on what im trying to say is its not just about who you take. we have drafted/traded in a way that has meant all players taken have to work out for good list structure.
very few are first rounders 2 i think and one has gone already. 3 or 4 2nd rnders of which a few are early second rnd rounders. the odd third rounder as well.
is this good enough with just one proven tall player, and nearly all talls have been turned over in recent times.and to top it off we fail to top up with extra talls late nd or rookie list. i can live with us not useing early picks on talls if better rated players are there but to fail to load up is not on.


i have always advocated we take the best available with our first rounder and to a degree our second rounder as well. so you may not get a tall real early. if theres a tall and a mid closely ranked take the tall, good ones are much harder to come by.

the griffiths draft i went something like 3 morabito/martin, 19 and remember i debated long and hard about the need to get a pp we should have had 18 and 19. anyway 19 bastinac. i stated if we are to take a tall black or carlisle. 35 astbury tall 44 shaw tall 51 taylor, 67 grimes tall 71 houghton tall psd bradshaw tall .
and rookie draft daw a tall.
i also wanted us to trade for jacobs or entice him away from carlton. all this and i oipenly admitted i had seen little of the juniors so i was probably making blunders. but as far as list management went i still think a scenario like this was the way to go.yeah i wanted bastinac but i certainly did not want us to ignore the talls either.
have maintained for awhile now if you dont take em early load up on em late.

I will wear the card but this is another fukcing rant similar to what you were doing on PRE,

What the Fukc has 2005 , 2006 , 2007 , 2008 got to do with us picking griffiths in 2009?

What youre saying is we should NEVER have drafted him

Those years were under wallace and miller and so far hardwick and co have been very good get your hand off it santa.

 

[santa claws]

Hey, you Griffiths knockers, give the kid a break and stop being so cynical on the youngster in only his 2nd season with the club.

If he under performs within the next couple of seasons (ala Cleve Hughes & his 3 seasons for a miserly return 16 games and 23 goals) then vent your frustration!

"Why are people so unkind?"

no one is knocking griffiths at all. in fact i reckon everybody agrees he has potential and needs to be given every chance to prove himself.weather thats at coburg or seniors does not matter.

what is debatable is just how good his 5 games have been to date. well as far as im concerned they have been very ordinary but what did we expect.to me he was given a taste of the big time an idea of what is required with no expectations what so ever.
the thing is if he didnt get hurt he should have been dropped getting so little of the ball cant be good for any player over a sustained period.

unlike most im happy for kids like him and vickery to develop at coburg and only get REGULAR GAMES when they can make a reasonable contribution.let em show they can do really well at the lower level first before we start gifting them games.
what is the hurry to rush him in we have post miller and jack who can hold the fort for just a little while dont you think.

finally i reckon they drafted him more on what he showed with the odd glimpse rather than what he could consistently do.

 

[santa claws]

I will wear the card but this is another fukcing rant similar to what you were doing on PRE,

What the Fukc has 2005 , 2006 , 2007 , 2008 got to do with us picking griffiths in 2009?

Those years were under wallace and miller and so far hardwick and co have been very good get your hand off it santa.

did i bring up those yrs or another poster. all i have done is reply. what do you want me to do. i believe i was asked a question on who i wanted you should read what is being said and you wont get your knickers in knot.

oh and outside of pick 3 martin, what player taken since hardwick has been there has established himself as a player. bit early to be proclaiming players either way dont you think.

 

[santa claws]

Yeah, but early picks give you the best chance to get quality players. Santa (and others) has simultaneously criticised using a pick as early as 19 on Griffiths, yet damned the club for not taking more talls in the rookie draft.

what ya reckon NQTIGER did i have the right to reply

 

[santa claws]

2005: Drafted Hughes (193cm) and rookied Graham (201).
2006: Drafted Riewoldt (allegedly 195 but I looked him in the eye last year and I reckon he's 193), took Kingsley (193) in the PSD, and traded for Polak (194).
2007: Drafted Rance (193) and Putt (200), took Gourdis (194) in the PSD, and rookied Sylvestor (190) and Cartledge (199).
2008: Drafted Vickery (200) and Post (194) and rookied Browne (203).
2009: Drafted Griffiths (198) and Astbury (195), took Grimes (193) in the PSD and rookied Westhoff (198).

Just sayin.

or this.

 

[NQTIGER]

did i bring up those yrs or another poster. all i have done is reply. what do you want me to do.

oh and outside of pick 3 martin, what player taken since hardwick has been there has established himself as a player. bit early to be proclaiming players either way dont you think.

Mate all you have done is hang the kid, no one here has come out and said he is the next messiah, as for the others drafted by Hardwick,

Martin has performed
Nason has shown glimpses
Astbury has shown glimpses
Webberley has shown glimpses
Taylor Jury out
Dea Jury out

Roberts Waste of a hamburger

No one is saying that they will be out and out superstars, but given you seem to want to swap them for others maybe you should go and support North etc etc

This is my last comment on this

Tuggs hand me a card im depressed

 

[santa claws]

Mate all you have done is hang the kid, no one here has come out and said he is the next messiah, as for the others drafted by Hardwick,

Martin has performed
Nason has shown glimpses
Astbury has shown glimpses
Webberley has shown glimpses
Taylor Jury out
Dea Jury out

Roberts Waste of a hamburger

No one is saying that they will be out and out superstars, but given you seem to want to swap them for others maybe you should go and support North etc etc

This is my last comment on this

Tuggs hand me a card im depressed

lol where have i hung the kid.
oh is that where i truthfully said his 5 games were ordinary. thats not hanging thats being truthful.
as stated all i have done is reply to a post and actually answer a question about who i would have taken.

and i see you agree only martin has established himself. yep dh doesnt really have all that much to hang his hat off just yet. but you wouldnt know that either the way some carry on.

 

[Richo URA Star]

I don't care if the kid does not get a kick for the next 24 AFL rounds we will be on top of the ladder and on our way to a premiership

 

[THE_GUN]

To be perfectly honest i am extremely happy with our selections from last 2009.

Martin ................... was the best out of the recruits last year by a mile & looks like a 250 game player that will a great tiger.

Griffiths ................. size,strength,speed, he has got it all & is an integral part of our plans , i have no doubt he will become a 60 goal a year FF if his shoulders hold up but i am very very happy with the selection.

Astbury ...................... Kid is a gun on & off the field loved the way he played from the first 5 minutes i saw him in the coburg/richmond game at cragiburn and declared him to be a fantastic selection then. 1 of my favourite players.

Taylor ...................already 192cm and 83 kgs, could end up an inspired choice has amazing skills and football ability if we can hold onto him & get him used to living in melbourne he could be anything this kid

the above group of kids could be the nucleus of a great richmond team for the next 10-12 years

Ben Griffiths is a huge player for richmond and we really need to handle his injury's with great caution & i really dont care if we have to cotton wool him for another year.

 

[Dr Tigris]

When he was drafted the draft watchers that I though knew what they were talking about said that he was the only A grade KPF in that year. But that his shoulders and what appeared to be a poor attitude in his recovery would make him slide. I saw his selection as an admission that we had poor KPF stocks and the risk was worth it. JR has improved so much that we have a structure now. If JR has a foil, big strong CHF, he will be a better performer. If JR had just won the Coleman would we still have drafted Griff. Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't.

Anyway the word from inside the club, through the boards and my not very strong network, is that Griff has to tools to be an A grade AFL player. If he can stand up and fulfil his potential then we may have two A grade KPFs.

I suspect that he will recover as they can treat shoulders so much better now. He seems to be able to play AFL level, athough that's a fairly dodgy judgement given only 5 games with the dominant AFL FF in the same forward line.

For the Tiges they have to judge their drafting assuming he is a good chance to come good, IMHO. Because that allows them to draft mids that can get us to be able to hit targets. I personally reckon we have one of the highest risk reward squads in the AFL. If it comes right we will be a contender. If not then another decade of mediocrity. Griff is an important piece of this - very high risk of nothing and the potential of a Richo quality CHF is it goes right.

 

[rado]

you can look at it that way and say griffiths did nothing in his 5 games last year, which is pretty much spot on just like 99.9% of key position players do in their first couple of games. so that's a waste of a comment because it means nothing.

however, if you have been watching him closely santa, just like i assume other people on here that talk him up have been, he can do some special things for such a big man. he may have done nothing to you but things like that goal against freo on the run from 50 with ease or some of his chase downs get me pretty excited, dont know about you

 

[Madtiger2006]

you can look at it that way and say griffiths did nothing in his 5 games last year, which is pretty much spot on just like 99.9% of key position players do in their first couple of games. so that's a waste of a comment because it means nothing.

however, if you have been watching him closely santa, just like i assume other people on here that talk him up have been, he can do some special things for such a big man. he may have done nothing to you but things like that goal against freo on the run from 50 with ease or some of his chase downs get me pretty excited, dont know about you

Santa wouldn't dare look at positives. It's only negatives he sees

 

[NQTIGER]

To be perfectly honest i am extremely happy with our selections from last 2009.

Martin ................... was the best out of the recruits last year by a mile & looks like a 250 game player that will a great tiger.

Griffiths ................. size,strength,speed, he has got it all & is an integral part of our plans , i have no doubt he will become a 60 goal a year FF if his shoulders hold up but i am very very happy with the selection.

Astbury ...................... Kid is a gun on & off the field loved the way he played from the first 5 minutes i saw him in the coburg/richmond game at cragiburn and declared him to be a fantastic selection then. 1 of my favourite players.

Taylor ...................already 192cm and 83 kgs, could end up an inspired choice has amazing skills and football ability if we can hold onto him & get him used to living in melbourne he could be anything this kid

the above group of kids could be the nucleus of a great richmond team for the next 10-12 years

Ben Griffiths is a huge player for richmond and we really need to handle his injury's with great caution & i really dont care if we have to cotton wool him for another year.

When he was drafted the draft watchers that I though knew what they were talking about said that he was the only A grade KPF in that year. But that his shoulders and what appeared to be a poor attitude in his recovery would make him slide. I saw his selection as an admission that we had poor KPF stocks and the risk was worth it. JR has improved so much that we have a structure now. If JR has a foil, big strong CHF, he will be a better performer. If JR had just won the Coleman would we still have drafted Griff. Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't.

Anyway the word from inside the club, through the boards and my not very strong network, is that Griff has to tools to be an A grade AFL player. If he can stand up and fulfil his potential then we may have two A grade KPFs.

I suspect that he will recover as they can treat shoulders so much better now. He seems to be able to play AFL level, athough that's a fairly dodgy judgement given only 5 games with the dominant AFL FF in the same forward line.

For the Tiges they have to judge their drafting assuming he is a good chance to come good, IMHO. Because that allows them to draft mids that can get us to be able to hit targets. I personally reckon we have one of the highest risk reward squads in the AFL. If it comes right we will be a contender. If not then another decade of mediocrity. Griff is an important piece of this - very high risk of nothing and the potential of a Richo quality CHF is it goes right.

you can look at it that way and say griffiths did nothing in his 5 games last year, which is pretty much spot on just like 99.9% of key position players do in their first couple of games. so that's a waste of a comment because it means nothing.

however, if you have been watching him closely santa, just like i assume other people on here that talk him up have been, he can do some special things for such a big man. he may have done nothing to you but things like that goal against freo on the run from 50 with ease or some of his chase downs get me pretty excited, dont know about you

Santa wouldn't dare look at positives. It's only negatives he sees

I know i said that was my last word