Toast Griffiths

[This Is Anfield]

Ben Griffiths is going nowhere, so stop that crap right now!

 

[theflea]

Why? Would you play ressies in a state away from home or play AFL in your home state.

Griff was treated pretty poorly. From us outsiders it was part club screwing him around part him not having a heart but let's be honest how many people would blame themselves over the club? Probably not many. That's life.

Hopefully Griff holds his position and stays. At least we'd get better than the saints offer of 48. (I actually thought we were offered worse than that)

So when you play 2's in a top side and need to wait your turn you crack the sads and go home?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

If I remember correctly Griff was touted as a top 10 based pick on talent, but slipped due to the very real concerns surrounding his shoulders. Was considered the 2nd best KPF in the draft after John Butcher.

 

[Spluff]

Was considered the 2nd best KPF in the draft after John Butcher.

That was a line touted by his backers but it's probably not entirely true. In terms of potential, sure. But he never really put it together (he was injured a lot of the time, but didn't really put it together when he wasn't, either), and players like Aaron Black and Jake Carlisle clearly outperformed him in his draft year.

 

[tigs2010]

So when you play 2's in a top side and need to wait your turn you crack the sads and go home?

Since when did we become a top side? I'm sure players are more understanding at clubs that have guns playing their position. When you've got a spud ahead of u and you get scapegoated for one loss then I reckon you're entitled to feel aggrieved. And if there is an offer there from your home state with game time then I can't blame someone if they left.

For all I know he could come in this week and play 20 games and sign a 2-3 year deal.

 

[tigs2010]

That was a line touted by his backers but it's probably not entirely true. In terms of potential, sure. But he never really put it together (he was injured a lot of the time, but didn't really put it together when he wasn't, either), and players like Aaron Black and Jake Carlisle clearly outperformed him in his draft year.

From memory he was talked up as potentially being the best of the KPFs but hadn't stayed on the park long enough to establish himself and was too risky to take early. Carlisle was in a similar sort of boat I think.

 

[Turka]

Check out this kid five years ago, what a gun.
The earth is slow, but the ox is patient.

 

[THE_GUN]

That was a line touted by his backers but it's probably not entirely true. In terms of potential, sure. But he never really put it together (he was injured a lot of the time, but didn't really put it together when he wasn't, either), and players like Aaron Black and Jake Carlisle clearly outperformed him in his draft year.

I clearly remember how extremely dissapointed i was when we didnt select Carlisle with our selection, Not totally dissapointed with Big Ben but Jake Carlisle was the player i was so hoping for atm

 

[This Is Anfield]

I clearly remember how extremely dissapointed i was when we didnt select Carlisle with our selection, Not totally dissapointed with Big Ben but Jake Carlisle was the player i was so hoping for atm

Ah yes, but if we picked Carlisle would he have "developed as rapidly" under Richmond's sports science program?
And the big Griff may have "developed more quickly" under Essendon's sports science program!

 

[captain cotch 9]

My gf went to school with Bens ex gf. They broke up at the start of the season...maybe it has released him

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

With his current rate of development Ben Griffiths wouldn't be let go for just a 2nd rounder, Carlton would of done well to ask for him in the trade for Hampson Ben is the exact type of player that would of been ideal for carlton tbh - But that boat has sailed and we will certainly keep him now

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Although, while he may have been a pretty handy addition to our line up right now I can see why our recruiters/football manager didn't raise his name as an option.

I know for a fact that our recruiters during the time of the draft (2009) thought that Griffiths lacked hunger/desire and that "his body was made of paper" (which is probably fair given his final year of TAC).

So given that - and our dramas with the durability of another KPF in Waite, they probably didn't see him as somebody who can add much value for return on Hampson, and given that the only other interest in Ben last year was from St. Kilda at Pick #48 (which they used for Josh Bruce) you can hardly gloat about Carlton missing the boat by not raising his name as an option. Although, Ben has been impressive so far this year.

We effectively traded Hampson for Docherty, which we're all pretty happy with anyway.

Astbury -I would rather see him stay as he has a very good football brain and is a good footballer with alot more upside to come and looks to be over his injuries and gaining confidence both players just 22/23 yo richmond would be mad to let go for a 3rd rounder.

I wouldnt take anything less than a mid 2nd rounder for astbury C4

I don't know much about Astbury aside from his performances vs. Carlton recently (he played well on Waite this year) and I may be biased but ....

When I think of KPP's being traded elsewhere during tradeweek such as Josh Bruce (Pick #48), Luke Delaney (Pick #72), Jesse White (Pick #44), Spangher (Pick #66, 2012) and Stefan Martin (Pick #53, 2012), I think that hoping for a pick in the mid 20's for Astbury is maybe a little too optimistic.

Don't forget that this year is said to be a KPP rich draft and most clubs will have their eyes on trying to pry away the disgruntled tall talent from north of the border (Schade, Jaksch, Tomlinson etc), so clubs may tie their early picks to these players, which would cause second tier players to become de-valued.

But this is just my opinion anyway, and I suppose every supporter overrates their players trade value slightly because they have been exposed to and witnessed the development of said player and their expectations of what he can evolve into.

Just a question How would you like the look of the Carlton team with both Astbury/Jamison in Defence & Henderson/Griffiths in the foward line

Both Astbury and Griffiths would certainly help straighten us up at the moment... and any Carlton supporter would be lying if they said that we didn't need a Griffiths/Astbury in our line up right now, but I'd also be happy with us sending Henderson to defence on a permanent basis and trying to either load up on a highly rated KPP in this years draft ... or try to pry a Jaksh/Tomlinson from GWS to send forward.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

My gf went to school with Bens ex gf. They broke up at the start of the season...maybe it has released him

You can't cage a sex monster

 

[Dr Tigris]

Er...no he doesn't/isn't. What do you think Jack riewoldt's role has been this year? pretty much to ensure this doesn't happen. Ty has been beaten far more times one on one this season than he has beaten his opponent or been double teamed. Watch the first game against GC again and see him get towled up by a 2nd tier defender.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is a fine line in the difference between benny's and ty's marking ability (so far this season anyway). Ty has shown that he has a disability when it comes to 'extending the dukes' as they say and is comfortable trying to take awkward chest marks. The post you responded to makes excellent points about why Ty has scored more than Ben, if their positions were reversed I'm confident that Benny would have kicked more than 8 based on his current form.

What I am saying is simply that people trashing TV may be fashionable right now, but on what they have done so far you'd be hard pressed to say Griff is better. Ty has kicked twice as many goals, and that is the core measure of a KPF. However Griff has done his role very well and is definitely in the top half of our performers this year. But Ty has played the main target role, and that is a very hard role to play. Griff has been a role player, getting on his bike up the ground and acting as a forward target inside 50 at times.

At best you would say they are about even so far this year. That is awesome as Griff is still maturing into his role, and TV should be about a mature AFL player. Yes, I think TV is too on and off. But then so is Jack so far, much more off than on in 2014. Griff has done a lot of work in making the forward line function. If the midfield can start to play decent footy and give them service then I reckon our three talls line up could be very dangerous.

Let's celebrate having three good talented tall forwards, not trash the highest goal kicker because there is a new kid on the block. It's strange I've goen from beign one of the few Griff supporters to trying to get people to chill a little. Right now he is a good B grade KPF, and no more. But given his experience and the new forward set up, I expect to see him improve considerably. I also expect Ty to start turning his good games into hsi typical games. And I damn well want Jack to turn the clock back to what we all know he is capable of. Right now I am more down on JR than either Griff and TV. But JR is a proven star, and will turn it around.

Be happy that we might just have three very good tall forwards, and you can build a premiership out of feeding something like that.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

My gf went to school with Bens ex gf. They broke up at the start of the season...maybe it has released him

I think having a program in place where his manager now handles his money and gives him an "allowance" has released him

 

[Dr Tigris]

If I remember correctly Griff was touted as a top 10 based pick on talent, but slipped due to the very real concerns surrounding his shoulders. Was considered the 2nd best KPF in the draft after John Butcher.

The general opinion was that he and Butcher were the two potential 'A grade' KPFs that year. Butcher had/has a very strange kicking style and Griff was seen as injury prone and with a poor attitude. We had a very good look at Griff and needed more tall depth so we took the gamble that he would recover from shoulder injuries and we could get his attitude to being AFL quality.

Looks like everyone was right. He had more injuries, but has recovered and seems sound physically now. And he didn't deal well with the AFL until Chocco got on his case. Now we see a potential top quality KPF well worth the 20 draft pick. Imagine if Melbourne picked him - out of the game by now most likely (sorry Demons, but your record with problem youngsters isn't good). A story of everyone knowing the reality and our club backing the footy department to fix obvious problems in a very talented player. I reckon the hardest issues are attitude ones, and making Griff work harder is easier than turning a ratbag into a professional (Not that I am looking at a former tiger sacked for multiple unprofessional acts)

 

[Tigers_fan24]

What I am saying is simply that people trashing TV may be fashionable right now, but on what they have done so far you'd be hard pressed to say Griff is better. Ty has kicked twice as many goals, and that is the core measure of a KPF. However Griff has done his role very well and is definitely in the top half of our performers this year. But Ty has played the main target role, and that is a very hard role to play. Griff has been a role player, getting on his bike up the ground and acting as a forward target inside 50 at times.

At best you would say they are about even so far this year. That is awesome as Griff is still maturing into his role, and TV should be about a mature AFL player. Yes, I think TV is too on and off. But then so is Jack so far, much more off than on in 2014. Griff has done a lot of work in making the forward line function. If the midfield can start to play decent footy and give them service then I reckon our three talls line up could be very dangerous.

Let's celebrate having three good talented tall forwards, not trash the highest goal kicker because there is a new kid on the block. It's strange I've goen from beign one of the few Griff supporters to trying to get people to chill a little. Right now he is a good B grade KPF, and no more. But given his experience and the new forward set up, I expect to see him improve considerably. I also expect Ty to start turning his good games into hsi typical games. And I damn well want Jack to turn the clock back to what we all know he is capable of. Right now I am more down on JR than either Griff and TV. But JR is a proven star, and will turn it around.

Be happy that we might just have three very good tall forwards, and you can build a premiership out of feeding something like that.

I think people are trash talking Vickery because of his on-field demeanor rather than because it's fashionable. He just looks like he doesn't attack contests consistently and gives up too easily and wants to settle for 50/50 contests rather than lead, which is frustrating to watch because he is more than capable. Griff is also more than just a new kid on the block. He has been around for awhile and is just now starting to find some form as a forward/ruck, which is what he was drafted as and is flourishing in the role and people are excited about it. If Vickery had the same attack when going for a mark and the same defensive pressure as what Griffiths is producing right now, we might be in a better situation..

 

[Dr Tigris]

I think people are trash talking Vickery because of his on-field demeanor rather than because it's fashionable. He just looks like he doesn't attack contests consistently and gives up too easily and wants to settle for 50/50 contests rather than lead, which is frustrating to watch because he is more than capable. Griff is also more than just a new kid on the block. He has been around for awhile and is just now starting to find some form as a forward/ruck, which is what he was drafted as and is flourishing in the role and people are excited about it. If Vickery had the same attack when going for a mark and the same defensive pressure as what Griffiths is producing right now, we might be in a better situation..

The way I see it is TV has 8 goals and has earnt his wages. He had one very good game and 2 * 2 goal Meh games. That is not good enough given his talent. But as far as our forward line goes he has been more effective than Griff. That is largely because Griff is playing further from goal and isn't the main target. As they work out how to play the three talls and Griff shows his talents more I expect Griff to get more time in the hot spot and to be the target more often. But people are trashign Tv and saying he should be dropped. Right now the raw figures would suggest a 0-3 start if we did that. Unless someone else came in a kicked 8 goals and held down that key spot. Yeah Ty frustrates me a lot, but his is still earning his pay. When Griff is kicking 4 goals a game and Ty is doing 1 1/2 then drop him. But until the second half of the last game it was Jack that was underperforming.

All I am saying is take a good hard look at where we are at. Then think what woudl be the situation without Ty or Griff. Both have been capable so far this year. Ty can be much better overall, yes I agree. But he is among the leading goal kickers in the league and that is the core measure of how good a KPF is. Our forward problems IMHO are 70% the midfield. If our talls got good service more regularly then we'd see. But suggestions of dropping our leading goal scorer because another young guy is playing OK just seems stupid to me.

 

[theflea]

Since when did we become a top side? I'm sure players are more understanding at clubs that have guns playing their position. When you've got a spud ahead of u and you get scapegoated for one loss then I reckon you're entitled to feel aggrieved. And if there is an offer there from your home state with game time then I can't blame someone if they left.

For all I know he could come in this week and play 20 games and sign a 2-3 year deal.

We are at the point when we will transfer roles from vets to the new players. If you cant see that Newy and King are ready to retire, and you bide your time, then you are clueless(as players). The same could be said for those players who are only really for depth, come when required, but go out when the regulars come back yet stay anyway, why do they stay and accept it? Because they understand the process. We may not be a top just yet, but we do have a lot of players that their positions in the team are set. I understand your point but geez, I hate when players leave after not even finishing their initial contract and crack the shits.

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

I hate when players leave after not even finishing their initial contract and crack the shits.

not sure if he's cracking the shits, just that there will be a nice bag of carrots on the table for a 19 year old to consider at the end of the year, so he's a flight risk until dan richardson gets him to extend his contract. that's the reality.

 

[tigs2010]

We are at the point when we will transfer roles from vets to the new players. If you cant see that Newy and King are ready to retire, and you bide your time, then you are clueless(as players). The same could be said for those players who are only really for depth, come when required, but go out when the regulars come back yet stay anyway, why do they stay and accept it? Because they understand the process. We may not be a top just yet, but we do have a lot of players that their positions in the team are set. I understand your point but geez, I hate when players leave after not even finishing their initial contract and crack the shits.

I can understand King because he was still playing decent footy and I'm holding out slim hope he's only looking done because of preseason injury. Newy on the other hand was done last year IMO but obviously he got to get through a final otherwise that would have been brutal to culture but now it's time to move on. From what I've heard this week this is about to happen. It will have to be gradual though or we will get smashed. 1 or 2 at a time.

I'm not saying I'd be happy about it but I can certainly understand someone going home for more opportunity. I don't McDonough from a bar of soap but just saying there is interest in him. He may be more than happy playing ressies for all I know...

Griff was close last year but ultimately stayed.

 

[RichoLedio]

What exactly have you heard this week tigs2010? Are we about to see some phasing out of the older players?

 

[tigs2010]

What exactly have you heard this week tigs2010? Are we about to see some phasing out of the older players?

Just that we should see some changes start to happen. No idea what it actually means. Could just be omitting some of the guys that are underdone. Could be some of the older blokes are replaced by younger blokes or maybe a shit load got injured this week.

 

[theflea]

not sure if he's cracking the shits, just that there will be a nice bag of carrots on the table for a 19 year old to consider at the end of the year, so he's a flight risk until dan richardson gets him to extend his contract. that's the reality.

That's not what he said though. Tigs said he wasn't happy here and cracking the shits. I can understand if he is poached for top dollar that is a different story.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

I think having a program in place where his manager now handles his money and gives him an "allowance" has released him

Financial ineptitude seems to be in the water at punt rd.

If Griffiths form holds through to mid season the media train will be right on him, in those circumstances I could see his value being a pick 13-18 depending on the depth of the draft. While I understand Carlton's recruiters didn't rate him at the time, since then most of them have been shown the door. Astbury's the curly one, pick outside 50 would be all we could hope for unless he shows more between now and then.

 

[DrMike]

Value will depend on what they need and when they need it. If they're planning for 4 years time, Griffiths isn't worth much to them now.