Grundy

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Its official Heath Grundy is a sheep dog back and should be thrown foward to lessen his destruciton in the backline. He wouldn't put his head over the ball if he was playing with his kids in the lounge room.
He averages just 1.6 tackles per game, yet somehow has the second most marks for the swans all year behind Goodes (uncontested, thats why!).Even the little flash Lewis Jetta has made more tackles than Grundy. He's given away 26 free kicks 3rd behind Mumford (expected as a ruckman, and O'Keefe, less damaging context giving them away at 1/2 foward, tough year for ROK) and seeing as he is committed to sheep dogging out the back for the easy mark, you can only assume all of those free's were in the oppositions attacking 50. He is slow and often does not make a contest and gives away stupid free kicks that lead to goals because he is too slow and afraid to place body contact on the opposition, untill after the mark is taken, and only a free can transpire. Sack him Longmire. My father in law was offered a Bloods contract many moons ago before the professional age and has played over 250 firsts country footy games , and umpired over 300 games, coached you name it. He's followed the swans all his life, and he is absolutely at a loss at how this bloke continues to get a run. Its un-swans like and he is responsible for ruining momentum at key points multiple times....namely the final last year.

We are sick of the excuses, ' he's had a few good games', 'he gets good supercoach points', ' He's a talented back man'. Rubbish....sheep dog.

Either drop him, or throw him foward where he played when younger, or two swans supporters may reconsider their memberships next year.

 

[TheGoatBaron]

And people would like to question my loyalty to the club?

Think this thread is over the top....Not sure if we can afford to lose Grundy, don't think we have enough depth in key-position defenders.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

And people would like to question my loyalty to the club?

Think this thread is over the top....Not sure if we can afford to lose Grundy, don't think we have enough depth in key-position defenders.

Key-position........ the only key position grundy has been holding is on the tuckerbox.

We cant afford to play him at the moment, he's costing us dearly maybe 2+ goals a match due to his ineptitude. He just looks lost out there, not sure if he has a good tactical footy brain.

It highly unlikely we will recind our memberships, but we have penned a strong letter to the coaching staff at the club full of stats and examples demanding some answers.

 

[S120]

Certainly coming out of the wood work this week, aren't they?

I cannot imagine what this board would be like if Sydney was in the bottom 4.

We've got far more pressing issues to address than our KP defenders. Reg and Teddy have done good and very good jobs this year respectively IMO.

 

[TheGoatBaron]

And is he the only Swans player that has turned it over heaps? I don't think so....it's easy just to pick on one.

You would have thought the forward line would have been more of a concern than our backline at the moment.

 

[CAS79]

Deadly blood.

Convince me, cite examples and stop reading from the stat page.

Grundy's role is to "Sheep Dog". He works by taking the "Soft" mark by getting to the ball first. Exactly what he was supposed to do against Richmond while Richards played man to man. It failed because Richmond's midfield managed to run through unchecked.

This is the same shit people would scream at LRT for, exactly the same. They make mistakes because they attack the play. It's easy not to be blamed for an error if your watching.

Like much of our team Grundy is slow, granted, he's not asked to run down the man with the ball but I cant think of an example of where I thought Grundy should tackle and didn't.

Deadly blood you want Grundy gone. provide a restuctre plan of the back line for the game against St Kilda right now without Grundy.

 

[legend166]

Why does everyone always forget why Grundy is playing in the back line in the first place?

Hint: It's because he already played up forward, and was absolutely terrible at it.

I think Grundy, as a defender, is pretty good. At times he gets lost and every now and again a monster forward might tear him up (Cloke, Hall), but he's generally a good defender. It's his disposal that kills us more than anything. It's terrible and needs to be improved. The only one of our back 6 that has good disposal is Nick Smith.

 

[bedford]

Oh Cas, where do we find them

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Why does everyone always forget why Grundy is playing in the back line in the first place?

Hint: It's because he already played up forward, and was absolutely terrible at it.

I think Grundy, as a defender, is pretty good. At times he gets lost and every now and again a monster forward might tear him up (Cloke, Hall), but he's generally a good defender. It's his disposal that kills us more than anything. It's terrible and needs to be improved. The only one of our back 6 that has good disposal is Nick Smith.

Dont even start me on his disposal...

 

[BarneyBent]

Jesus. I like to think I'm pretty realistic about Grundy's worth, and I was the one championing a trade of him for Taylor Walker in the trade thread. But this is just ridiculous.

Firstly, Grundy is averaging 1.2 contested marks a game. Secondly, much like LRT, while prone to the occasional shocker which makes him look bad, his overall disposal is not nearly as bad as people make out. Finally, he's in the sde to spoil and negate in the air, not tackle.

Fact is, Grundy is an effective (if limited against some of the super-agile forwards like Franklin) key defender who is brilliant at peeling off and providing an option out of defence. He's one of the last players the finger should be pointed at.

 

[Swans_01]

Why does everyone always forget why Grundy is playing in the back line in the first place?

Hint: It's because he already played up forward, and was absolutely terrible at it.

I think Grundy, as a defender, is pretty good. At times he gets lost and every now and again a monster forward might tear him up (Cloke, Hall), but he's generally a good defender. It's his disposal that kills us more than anything. It's terrible and needs to be improved. The only one of our back 6 that has good disposal is Nick Smith.

Malceski should also be in the back 6, and has one of the best kicks in the league. Instead, Horse leaves Kennelly in!

 

[Dangas]

Oh Cas, where do we find them

 

[Wolfgang West]

Oh Cas, where do we find them

Who cares where we found him ? It says Australia so that will do me !
Please dont tell me you dont think his post has merit. Turns the ball over time and time again not to mention momentum in many instances as well.Spot on about semi final last year as well.Absoloutley sh## himself twice in marking contests against Hall which not only cost goals but momentum and ultimately the game. Amazing how playing as a spare man in defence can make a hack look like a star but try being responsible for an opponent and have to go 1 on 1 and the word embarrassing is the only word that comes to mind.

 

[Rhino5]

I still think he is a decent defender, but his disposal is shocking at times. Has to be close to the worst kick in the AFL. Seriously.

 

[CAS79]

Who cares where we found him ? It says Australia so that will do me !
Please dont tell me you dont think his post has merit. Turns the ball over time and time again not to mention momentum in many instances as well.Spot on about semi final last year as well.Absoloutley sh## himself twice in marking contests against Hall which not only cost goals but momentum and ultimately the game. Amazing how playing as a spare man in defence can make a hack look like a star but try being responsible for an opponent and have to go 1 on 1 and the word embarrassing is the only word that comes to mind.

Seeing the stat sheet has been brought into this game I've some news for the Stats lovers who love to talk about Grundy's turnover ratio.

It's a MYTH highleted by the position on the ground where he plays.
which one of our midfielders or Half Back Flankers leads the count for the most effective disposal per game for Sydney for the year do you think.

O'Keefe? McVeigh? Hannebry? Jack? Goodes, Malceski, Shaw, Kennedy, Mattner.

Bugger me our leader for the most effective possessions per game is Grundy. This is a stat that should be lead by our midfield or Heath Shaw style flanker, Not a tall marking defender. Proof with the link by the way.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2011&sp=SE&rt=TA&fc=D11&tid=114

But Grundy turns the ball over more than any other Swan... Not so Stat Lovers

Grundy is ranked 11 for turnovers, behind O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Shaw and wait for it, Ben McGlynn and his handful of possesions a match turns the ball over more than Grundy does... we don't notice because it doesn't appear to hurt us so much in the immediate frame but really for McGlynn to be on that list ahead of Grundy is truly saying something about where Grundy ranks. Leads our effective stat count and 11th for turnovers. Impressive figures for a backman I'd have thought
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2011&sp=SE&rt=TA&fc=F7&tid=114

I know he's no superstar and admit wolfgang he had a shocker that night against the bulldogs but this year he has been playing his role quite well.

But hold this, if your going to use stats to show how poor Grundy is, you would hope they would back up your story wouldn't you

 

[AlibiMonday]

Seeing the stat sheet has been brought into this game I've some news for the Stats lovers who love to talk about Grundy's turnover ratio.

It's a MYTH highleted by the position on the ground where he plays.
which one of our midfielders or Half Back Flankers leads the count for the most effective disposal per game for Sydney for the year do you think.

O'Keefe? McVeigh? Hannebry? Jack? Goodes, Malceski, Shaw, Kennedy, Mattner.

Bugger me our leader for the most effective possessions per game is Grundy. This is a stat that should be lead by our midfield or Heath Shaw style flanker, Not a tall marking defender. Proof with the link by the way.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2011&sp=SE&rt=TA&fc=D11&tid=114

But Grundy turns the ball over more than any other Swan... Not so Stat Lovers

Grundy is ranked 11 for turnovers, behind O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Shaw and wait for it, Ben McGlynn and his handful of possesions a match turns the ball over more than Grundy does... we don't notice because it doesn't appear to hurt us so much in the immediate frame but really for McGlynn to be on that list ahead of Grundy is truly saying something about where Grundy ranks. Leads our effective stat count and 11th for turnovers. Impressive figures for a backman I'd have thought
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2011&sp=SE&rt=TA&fc=F7&tid=114

I know he's no superstar and admit wolfgang he had a shocker that night against the bulldogs but this year he has been playing his role quite well.

But hold this, if your going to use stats to show how poor Grundy is, you would hope they would back up your story wouldn't you

Consider this "Grundy has terrible disposal" theory completely debunked.

/end thread

 

[TheMase]

I have always thought the complaints about his disposal were overstated.

I would say he is actually a very good kick of the ball that is prone to 1 or 2 glaring kicking errors in a game, especially early in the opening quarter.

He also reads the play quite well. I have lost count of the times I have seen him make the decision to peel off his opponent to chase the ball. Almost always the right call.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

No one seems willing to touch on the outrageous free kicks he gives away because he is too slow to make it into the contest.

Effective possesions? Easy when your dropping back letting your mates take the damage then kicking it across the back line to be effective. Most of the other players named that are worse, are kicking under pressure to young fowards.....can tolerate that, but not from a 'key' defender.

 

[Costanza_]

I have always thought the complaints about his disposal were overstated.

I would say he is actually a very good kick of the ball that is prone to 1 or 2 glaring kicking errors in a game, especially early in the opening quarter.

I must admit I cringe every time he gets hold of it in the back half, expecting a turnover, but it´s probably more a case of this. When he makes an error by foot, it always seems to be a grievous one. He doesn't just fail to put it to our advantage, he seems to hit an opposition player on the chest in 20m of space. Those are the ones that stick in your mind.

Overall though a decent defender. He's been shown up against some of the gun forward but he's not alone. Reads the play well and (unless I'm missing something every week) I've never felt cause to question his tackling.

 

[magic.merkin]

Like all Key defenders he is at the mercy of the ball control from the mids and forwards. Odds are the more the ball comes in the higher the chances for opposition goals scored. The easier it comes in the worse it's going to be.

I have never seen him shirk a contest, and what key defender doesn't give away free kicks? The nature of their position is they trail defenders in more often than not. As the forward is the intended target and Reg is playing on the best in the business.

I think his turnovers have been addressed.

And someone has to play the swing man, hanging back.

 

[Dangas]

No one seems willing to touch on the outrageous free kicks he gives away because he is too slow to make it into the contest.

Effective possesions? Easy when your dropping back letting your mates take the damage then kicking it across the back line to be effective. Most of the other players named that are worse, are kicking under pressure to young fowards.....can tolerate that, but not from a 'key' defender.

Could have thought from this post you'd be talking about Mattner

 

[S120]

We're on Mattner now?

He and Shaw have copped plenty of criticism before 2011 about their horrible turnovers and silly free kicks. And that was warranted IMO, I concede that.

But anyone bashing them this year is just ignoring their form IMO. They're both having career best years in terms of pure defending (Grundy's defending has been not quite as consistent in my mind, but still very strong). Be it inside 50 with Mattner or tagging for Shaw. They aren't getting as much of the ball but given how inconsistent their disposal can be, that's not that big a loss really.

At the start of 2011, I would have had both of them barely hanging on to their spots in the 22. But they have been as consistently solid as anyone (aside from Goodes maybe).

 

[Dangas]

In others words, why single out Grundy?

 

[Jack2Jack]

absolutely laughable thread, Grundy is one of the least of Sydney's problems, has the odd shocking kick here and there....who in this current side doesn't?
Grundy has actually probably been on of the most consistant players this season, and wouldn't be suprised if he finished top 10 in the B&F.
Don't know why he's suddenly gained whipping boy status, others deserve it much more. It's even more hilarious considering what people used to bag LRT for and now aparantly he's the saviour to go back into defence.

 

[CAS79]

No one seems willing to touch on the outrageous free kicks he gives away because he is too slow to make it into the contest. .

Indeed, lets touch on the free kicks that you want to talk about.

lets look atthe stat of free kicks against in defensive acts of play

Grundy has given away 17 for the year, Mumford, Mattner and O'Keefe are ahead of him. Now remember this stat is not just about free kicks given away but in a defensive action. Grundy should be high on that list, but he's only 3 ahead of McGlynn and McVeigh for the entire season. High, but given his role expected. The figure is hardly reckless.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2011&sp=SE&rt=TT&fc=F2&tid=114

Yet this stat tells me in fact that he is not just playing uncontested sheep dogging football, he's putting himself in defensive acts of play that you are in fact accusing him of avoiding. Nick Malceski, who usually fronts in the back line has only given away 2, why is this, because he is not tackling or playing the hard play. A criticism that you have labelled Grundy for but the stats just don’t seem to back this theory up either.

Effective possesions? Easy when your dropping back letting your mates take the damage then kicking it across the back line to be effective. Most of the other players named that are worse, are kicking under pressure to young fowards.....can tolerate that, but not from a 'key' defender.

if you want to know an intriguing stat the major ball winners at the other clubs still lead the effective disposal count and play midfield flank based roles.

from the other teams in the top eight

Carlton are led by:Murphy, Scotland and Judd
Essendon: Stanton, Watson, Heppell
Geelong, Selwood, Enright, Corey
Eagles: Priddis, Kerr and Rosa
Hawks: Mitchell, Birchall and Suckling
Collingwood: Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas
St Kilda: Dalsanto, Goddard and Fisher


For whatever the reason our midfielders/flankers don’t lead our effective disposal count to continue to criticise Grundy for poor disposal when he does lead that count is just laughable.

We live in age of forward press. If we have a player of Grundy's height taking as many uncontested marks and effectively disposing of it through the back line we ought to be encouraged that somebody is playing the role needed.

But is he avoiding the contested possession count. I don’t particularly want Grundy high up that list and fortunately Im glad to see the names of Kennedy, O'Keefe, Bolton and Jack lead the count for average possessions. But strangely we find Grundy averaging almost 7 contested possessions a game. Ahead of his running flankers in Mattner, Malceski and Shaw. by the way Grundy is 4th for contested marks for the Swans for the year.

Grundy is not Andrew Dunkly or Craig Bolton

Yet every accusation Grundy has been accused of just doesn’t seem to stack up. In fact it looks like Grundy is playing a healthy balanced role and playing the role the team wants him to be doing.