Society/Culture Gun's

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Moderator #76
The big problem with gun ownership is the incredibly difficult process of licensing and ensuring safe use?. How can you be sure that even if the gun owner is of sound mind and the most safety conscious human at the time of licensing this situation will not change in time? How can you ensure that no-one else can access the weapon?
And therein lies the problem. You cant.

Ive lost count of the number of times I have seen a domestic situation get ugly or escalate, and a usually 'normal' person snaps (and kills) in a moment of madness.

The problem is 'moments of madness' with guns can leave dozens dead, with no chance of stopping it, and often with little to no warning.

Lets not mix up the lethality of knives or clubs, with the lethality of firearms now.

The US Constitution has no relevance in 2010 Australia.
Wouldn't go that far, but I get your point.

Guns don't kill people true but in reality we cannot control the people who have access to guns or their circumstance.
And even when we do control people that access guns, terrible tragic accidents and killings still happen.

There simply isnt a place for guns in a civil society.

You want to own them (for a legitimate sporting or hunting reason) fine. You can keep them under lock and key at a central sporting shooting armory away from the community and your (and my) family when not in use.

It's a real conundrum as I can also see Brad Roo's point as a sporting shooter and despite a bit of internet bravado Hawkmania is probably very safe with his weapons and not as likely "pop a cap in your arse" as he would have you believe in a home invasion situation.
Then they wouldn't mind leaving their guns in an armory away from the rest of the community.

A responsible gun owner wouldn't balk at such a suggestion.
 

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Brad Roo

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#82
:)I doubt it's ever happened.
Quoted from 'Your will be done'. The bloke knows his sh!t.
Had 53 years of research and study into constitutional law + was a parliamentarian.
He advocates citizens rights?

Well, he's obviously a fruitcake.

I prefer whoever is running the Labor Party this week to do my thinking for me.
 

Brad Roo

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#83
Imagine arming every Australian?

Northbridge and Rockingham would turn into a warzone.
See..........why do you equate gun ownership with low education and low socio-economic status?

You are a seriously prejudiced individual. The very definition of a bigot.

If people like you are running the government then thank god we all have guns.
 
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See..........why do you equate gun ownership with low education and low socio-economic status?
Huh?

You advocate an armed population.

This also means arming those of low education and low socio economic status you realize? Unless you intend to prohibit guns to only the educated and the rich.

Poor people with low education, little hope for a future and automatic weapons. Works wonders in the US doesnt it?

Yet you want to create the same situation here.

To 'keep the government in check' and 'protect liberty'.

Pfft. Pass.
 

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#85
The problem I have with even legal gun ownership in Australia (excluding sports shooting etc) is that someone who is paranoid enough to aquire a gun for 'self defence' probably has the sort of mind that would use it without thinking.

I just don't understand how someone living in Australia could have such paranoid delusions and still be given access to a firearm!
 

vealesy

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#86
Malifice,

How many of these lone gunman 'nutters' have actually gone on rampages, killing 'hundreds of people'.

And how many were just semi ******ed kids with a higher 'hip shot' kill ratio than the average SAS trooper?

There are more effective ways of killing hundreds of people than any form of hand held gun.

If we can't own guns, why should we arm our military with weapons of mass destruction?

We are all entities under the control of the Crown.

Yet we did not elect the Crown.

There will always be guns, as there will always be a common enemy to a free society.

That enemy to some, is the Crown.
 

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Malifice,

How many of these lone gunman 'nutters' have actually gone on rampages, killing 'hundreds of people'.
One mass killing is one too many.

And its not just the mass killings. Its the solo ones as well. And the fear that goes with living in an armed society.

As a dude thats lived in both the States and here, that's a fear I could do without.

There are more effective ways of killing hundreds of people than any form of hand held gun.
And they're all illegal and tightly controlled as well.

If we can't own guns, why should we arm our military with weapons of mass destruction?
Private ownership of firearms is a little different from a Nations right to an Armed force for self defense from hostile nations.
 

Pie eyed

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#89
Malifice,

How many of these lone gunman 'nutters' have actually gone on rampages, killing 'hundreds of people'.

And how many were just semi ******ed kids with a higher 'hip shot' kill ratio than the average SAS trooper?

There are more effective ways of killing hundreds of people than any form of hand held gun.

If we can't own guns, why should we arm our military with weapons of mass destruction?

We are all entities under the control of the Crown.

Yet we did not elect the Crown.

There will always be guns, as there will always be a common enemy to a free society.

That enemy to some, is the Crown.

Hmmmmm?

Replace te word crown with the word state.

Budding McVie?

Is it really always about mass killings?
Don't the ones and two's added up count for anything?
 

vealesy

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#90
One mass killing is one too many.

And its not just the mass killings. Its the solo ones as well. And the fear that goes with living in an armed society.

As a dude thats lived in both the States and here, that's a fear I could do without.



And they're all illegal and tightly controlled as well.



Private ownership of firearms is a little different from a Nations right to an Armed force for self defense from hostile nations.
One questionable mass killing.

And I disagree on the 'fear' in living in an armed society, even though you have more experience.

I don't reside in my home in any sort of fear, nor would I if there were nutters running around with guns (other than coppers) as I would have a bigger one.

And as for mass killing tools, they're not all regulated, many can be purchased and built from Bunnings' products. Replica guns can also be reworked.

On a side note, a mate of mine went to prison for a short stay due to a firearm offence (shot a street light). A few years later he was sent the forms from the government to aquire a gun license. He lives in the suburbs, not in the country.

I can't figure out the logic in that.

I also can't figure out the logic behind people supporting a gun buyback while also supporting a more armed, tactical and powerful police force and military.

One rule for some, other rules for others, it appears.
 

J_Moore

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#91
Christ, the Port Arthur conspiracy theory is the worst one I have ever heard.
 

Brad Roo

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#92
I also can't figure out the logic behind people supporting a gun buyback while also supporting a more armed, tactical and powerful police force and military.
The herd mentality of a certain demographic of this nation, and their will to impose their own ideals upon others is the single biggest threat to civil liberties in this nation.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that these "herd people" are the most vulnerable people in this nation when it comes to hypnotic suggestion.

In fact, studies have confirmed my suspicions:

Neurocognitive correlates of liberalism and conservatism

David M Amodio1, John T Jost1, Sarah L Master2 & Cindy M Yee2

Political scientists and psychologists have noted that, on average, conservatives show more structured and persistent cognitive styles, whereas liberals are more responsive to informational complexity, ambiguity and novelty. We tested the hypothesis that these profiles relate to differences in general neurocognitive functioning using event-related potentials, and found that greater liberalism was associated with stronger conflict-related anterior cingulate activity, suggesting greater neurocognitive sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern.


http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v10/n10/abs/nn1979.html
 

vealesy

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#93
The herd mentality of a certain demographic of this nation, and their will to impose their own ideals upon others is the single biggest threat to civil liberties in this nation.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that these "herd people" are the most vulnerable people in this nation when it comes to hypnotic suggestion.

In fact, studies have confirmed my suspicions:
Whoa whoa slow down.

English please.

Fwiw I'm a 'liberal lefty'. But I support an armed nation.
 
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#94
Silly argument.

A little hard to go on a mass killing spree when armed with a knife now isnt it.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

In 2008 a man killed 7 people and injured 10 (2 were killed by driving a truck into them and 5 were killed by stabbing) in a shopping precinct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

In 2001 a man killed 8 children with a kitchen knife at a school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

In March eight children were killed by a rampage killer using a knife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanping_school_massacre
 
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One questionable mass killing.
Questionable?

You think dozens of eye witnesses and the families of the 30 odd people slain are making it up?

Call the families of these people and let them know know your concerns:

* Winifred Joyce Aplin, 58
* Walter John Bennett, 66
* Nicole Louise Burgess, 17
* Sou Leng Chung, 32
* Elva Rhonda Gaylard, 48
* Zoe Anne Hall, 28
* Elizabeth Jayne Howard, 26
* Mary Elizabeth Howard, 57
* Mervyn John Howard, 55
* Ronald Noel Jary, 71
* Tony Vadivelu Kistan, 51
* Leslie Dennis Lever, 53
* Sarah Kate Loughton, 15
* David Martin, 72
* Noelene Joyce Martin, 69
* Pauline Virjeana Masters, 49
* Alannah Louise Mikac, 6
* Madeline Grace Mikac, 3
* Nanette Patricia Mikac, 36
* Andrew Bruce Mills, 49
* Peter Brenton Nash, 32
* Gwenda Joan Neander, 67
* Moh Yee Willing Ng, 48
* Anthony Nightingale, 44
* Mary Rose Nixon, 60
* Glen Roy Pears, 35
* Russell James Pollard, 72
* Janette Kathleen Quin, 50
* Helene Maria Salzmann, 50
* Robert Graham Salzmann, 58
* Kate Elizabeth Scott, 21
* Kevin Vincent Sharp, 68
* Raymond John Sharp, 67
* Royce William Thompson, 59

Amongst the victims is a whole ****ing family, newlyweds, retirees married for their whole life, a six and three year old (and their young mother), a mother and daughter.

Im anti capital punishment, but by **** I would NOT shed a tear if something terrible happened to that prick in Prison.

Something both fatal and really really terrible.
I don't reside in my home in any sort of fear, nor would I if there were nutters running around with guns (other than coppers) as I would have a bigger one.
It doesn't work that way!

You think you'll be fine simply because you have a 'big' gun?

This isn't a movie you realize. And your not McBain.

You would feel perfectly happy living in a war zone just because you had an AR 15 assault rifle and everyone else 'only' had Glock 19's?

How absurd.

And as for mass killing tools, they're not all regulated, many can be purchased and built from Bunnings' products. Replica guns can also be reworked.
Replica guns are controlled for just such a reason. If you are insinuating making explosives, well guess what - also illegal and with tight controls and regulation.

I also can't figure out the logic behind people supporting a gun buyback while also supporting a more armed, tactical and powerful police force and military.
Why? Been oppressed by the police or Army lately?

One rule for some, other rules for others, it appears.
Of course. Welcome to society.

Its the only way to be fair.

Unless you think private ownership of Tanks, Missiles, Bombs and Nukes is OK?
 
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Moderator #96
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

In 2008 a man killed 7 people and injured 10 (2 were killed by driving a truck into them and 5 were killed by stabbing) in a shopping precinct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

In 2001 a man killed 8 children with a kitchen knife at a school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

In March eight children were killed by a rampage killer using a knife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanping_school_massacre
Firstly nearly all those killed were children. Secondly, imagine if any of those idiots had a semi automatic firearm?

Recent killings from the USA alone:

  • Nov. 5, 2009: The Army says 13 people were killed and 30 wounded in a shooting rampage at its Fort Hood base in Texas. The suspected lone gunman has been identified as Army psychiatrist Major Nidal Malik Hasan, one of the 30 injured.
  • April 3, 2009: A 41-year-old man opened fire at an immigrant community center in Binghamton, N.Y., killing 11 immigrants and two workers. Jiverly Wong, a Vietnamese immigrant and a former student at the center, killed himself as police rushed to the scene.
  • March 29, 2009: Robert Stewart, 45, shot and killed eight people at Pinelake Health and Rehab in Carthage, N.C. before a police officer shot him and ended the rampage.
  • March 29, 2009: Devan Kalathat, 42, shot and killed his two children and three other relatives, then killed himself in an upscale neighborhood of Santa Clara, Calif. Kalathat's wife was critically injured.
  • March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people • including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.
  • Feb. 14, 2008: Former student Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, fatally shooting five students and wounding 18 others before committing suicide.
  • Dec. 5, 2007: Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire with a rifle at a Von Maur store in an Omaha, Neb., mall, killing eight people before taking his own life. Five more people were wounded, two critically.
  • April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, 23, fatally shot 32 people in a dorm and a classroom at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, then killed himself in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
  • Oct. 2, 2006: Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, shot to death five girls at West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania, then killed himself.
  • March 21, 2005: Student Jeffrey Weise, 16, killed nine people, including his grandfather and his grandfather's companion at home. Also included were five fellow students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minn. He then killed himself. Seven students were wounded.
  • March 12, 2005: Terry Ratzmann, 44, gunned down members of his congregation as they worshipped at the Brookfield Sheraton in Brookfield, Wisconsin, slaying seven and wounding four before killing himself.
  • March 5, 2001: Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, Calif
  • Nov. 2, 1999: Copier repairman Byran Uyesugi, 40, fatally shoots seven people at Xerox Corp. in Honolulu. He is convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
  • July 29, 1999: Former day trader Mark Barton, 44, killed nine people in shootings at two Atlanta brokerage offices, then killed himself.
  • April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.
  • May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when Kip Kinkel, 17, opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents.
  • March 24, 1998: Andrew Golden, 11, and Mitchell Johnson, 13, killed four girls and a teacher at a Jonesboro, Ark., middle school. Ten others were wounded in the shooting.
  • Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.
  • June 18, 1990: James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.
  • July 12, 1976: Edward Charles Allaway, a custodian in the library of California State University, Fullerton, fatally shot seven fellow employees and wounded two others.
  • Aug. 20, 1986: Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.
  • July 18, 1984: James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty.
It goes on and on and on.

And these are just the Mass killings.

The unreported shooting murders in the inner suburbs outnumber these killings by hundreds of thousands over the same time period.
 

Brad Roo

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#97
Are many people familiar with the famous psychological experiments of Stanley Milgram?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Human beings are inherently stupid. The more susceptible they are to "credible" authority, the stupider they become.

This is why I am such a staunch civil rights advocate and why you can't have my guns.
 
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Nope.

I want to let them choose for themselves.
Have you met people?

Like actual real people.

Arming people is just really stupid.

If I understand your position, you beleive in an armed society to protect from the government turning tyrannical, and for reasons of personal liberty (that everyone should have a choice or a 'right' for the liberty to own a gun).

Where do you draw the line? What weapons should we be given access to? Should any weapons be banned or restricted?

Bombs? Nerve gas? Tanks? Nukes?
 
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