Half Back Flank Heaven

[gandaal]

Here's a list of Carlton player from our current list that play alot, if not all, of their footy on a half back flank:

Dennis Armfield
Paul Bower: Doesn't play like a KPD unfortunately
Andrew Carrazzo
Marcus Davies
Nicholas Duigan
Bryce Gibbs
Ryan Houlihan
Aaron Joseph
Jeremy Laidler
Patrick McCarthy: Yeah he's tall but until he fills out he's a HBF.
Andrew McInnes
Jordan Russell
Heath Scotland
Bret Thornton
Andrew Walker
Simon White
Chris Yarran: Debate is still up about whether he's better suited to FP or HBF

Oh and we just delisted HBFlankers:
Chris Johnson
Joe Anderson
Steven Brown
Rhys O'Keefe

While I'm not having a real crack at Hughes and co I just want to point out that I think we have the role covered guys. Yay!

 

[dumb]

have been wondering whether the propensity to pick up hbf'ers is actually just the recruiters picking up midfielders with a defensive side to their game ready-made before they come to the afl, depending on how you'd define a back-flanks role... which more or less looks like an extension of the midfield sometimes.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Wow. Bet you rip the heads off flies too.

Because a bloke has been played in a position it dont make him that.

I recall Fev having a stint at Full Back one day, dont make him a KPD does it.

 

[gandaal]

Wow. Bet you rip the heads off flies too.

Because a bloke has been played in a position it dont make him that.

I recall Fev having a stint at Full Back one day, dont make him a KPD does it.

95% of those above are HBFs born and bred. That makes them HBFs.

 

[DarkTint]

Carrazzo and Heath played midfield for most of the year from what i saw. AJ is a back pocket, so is Army. Houlihan was our defensive forward till he was injured. No matter what you think of Bower he actually was our CHB for the handful of games he played. I think Simon White filled in at CHB when Bower was out. T-Bird is done. Yaz has never played a senior afl game out of the forward line, he may have drifted down back but that would've been from following his opponent. Walker wanted to leave so he could play his preferred positions, midfield/forward. 4 guys are new to the club so maybe just wait and see where they end up. If you haven't heard we are going to release Gibbs into the midfield next year.

 

[Silvagnis]

HBF heaven would be a team full of players as tall as Murphy, Ellard, Joseph and Betts.

Oh, you meant half back flankers.

I feel better for having read this thread.

 

[40yearBLUE]

95% of those above are HBFs born and bred. That makes them HBFs.

You listed 21 players, by sheer percentages (surely you understand what 95% actually means) thats 19.95 of them. I will cut you some slack and round down to 19 of them. Care to reassess?

You really think Yazz is a hbfer? Tex? Bower? AJ come on mate. It was a nice try at an argument and you are right that we have started a few players through the position but Yazz, come on. Way to ruin what could have been an interesting observation, that we start a few players through HBF these days, but no, way off beam and way exaggerated.

 

[gandaal]

HBF heaven would be a team full of players as tall as Murphy, Ellard, Joseph and Betts.

Oh, you meant half back flankers.

I feel better for having read this thread.

And what a grand contribution you made.

Moving away from all the angst above, it's fairly clear that Carlton's recruiters have a policy to draft medium defenders who run and carry ahead of others. dumb (unfortunate name btw) may have hit the nail on the head, maybe we see it as a indicator of a strong defensive side to their game. After all a tank can be built after a few good preseasons, while some players never really grasp the need to watch their opponent.

 

[gandaal]

You listed 21 players, by sheer percentages (surely you understand what 95% actually means) thats 19.95 of them. I will cut you some slack and round down to 19 of them. Care to reassess?

You really think Yazz is a hbfer? Tex? Bower? AJ come on mate. It was a nice try at an argument and you are right that we have started a few players through the position but Yazz, come on. Way to ruin what could have been an interesting observation, that we start a few players through HBF these days, but no, way off beam and way exaggerated.

I'd argue with you but really it's irrelevent and pointless. A blind man could see that we have a strong tendency to draft HBFs and that's really the point of the thread.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I'd argue with you but really it's irrelevent and pointless. A blind man could see that we have a strong tendency to draft HBFs and that's really the point of the thread.

I have acknowledged it is an interesting observation, one not too hard to rationalize as we have already fleshed out in what 7 posts.

So why the need to exaggerate then. The moment you named Yarran and AJ as hbf's you lost all credence for your argument, when you didnt need to. Its not that devious or cunning a plan to draft defensive ball users, as dumb has pointed out or to instill in ball users a defensive nature by making them play in......wait for it.........defense, give that man a cigar.

Lucas was not recruited last year as a back flanker but he started there. So what? Long after he is tearing it up in the middle do you think people will label him just a glorified hbfer? And the irony is you didnt name him in your list yet thats the only position he has played for the club, but you did name Yarran and he has never ever played there for the club. Ever!

Yep, this ones done and dusted already. Shame really, could have been an interesting discussion.

 

[Claypigeon]

The problem with your assessment is that HBFers like HFFers don't play the traditional position any more. .. Plus positions are more broken down now. .. Even saying that positions of the players listed are (Preferred Position / Current Role):

Dennis Armfield - BP / Overlapping BP
Paul Bower - HBF / 3rd tall
Andrew Carrazzo - Midfield / Shadow fwd or tagger
Marcus Davies - HBF / traditional
Nicholas Duigan - HBF / unknown
Bryce Gibbs - Midfield / Quarterback (may continue this role in the midfield)
Ryan Houlihan - HFF / Defensive fwd (once played as a HBFer)
Aaron Joseph - Midfield or BP / Shadow or Tagger
Jeremy Laidler - N/A will start on a flank (fwd/back)
Patrick McCarthy - N/A most likely a KPP or 3rd tall
Andrew McInnes - N/A drafted as a flanker
Jordan Russell - Back Pocket / 2nd man up or floating defence
Heath Scotland - Wing / Link man
Bret Thornton - KPD / Depth floating defence
Andrew Walker - BP / Overlapping BP and cover defence (future midfield fwd)
Simon White - Unknown played as a CHB
Chris Yarran - HFF future Wing / link man

I understand that some might disagree with a few there. .. So even been generous you'll be lucky to find 5-6 true HBFers, hardly an abundance but clearly not a shortage. ..

 

[The Edukator]

I have acknowledged it is an interesting observation, one not too hard to rationalize as we have already fleshed out in what 7 posts.

So why the need to exaggerate then. The moment you named Yarran and AJ as hbf's you lost all credence for your argument, when you didnt need to. Its not that devious or cunning a plan to draft defensive ball users, as dumb has pointed out or to instill in ball users a defensive nature by making them play in......wait for it.........defense, give that man a cigar.

Lucas was not recruited last year as a back flanker but he started there. So what? Long after he is tearing it up in the middle do you think people will label him just a glorified hbfer? And the irony is you didnt name him in your list yet thats the only position he has played for the club, but you did name Yarran and he has never ever played there for the club. Ever!



Yep, this ones done and dusted already. Shame really, could have been an interesting discussion.

This pretty much hits the nail on thehead. +1

 

[HARKER]

Dennis Armfield
Paul Bower:
Andrew Carrazzo
Marcus Davies
Nicholas Duigan
Bryce Gibbs
Ryan Houlihan
Aaron Joseph
Jeremy Laidler
Patrick McCarthy
Andrew McInnes
Jordan Russell
Heath Scotland
Bret Thornton
Andrew Walker
Simon White
Chris Yarran: Debate is still up about whether he's better suited to FP or HBF



I know where you are coming from gandaal, but I feel the above highlighteds are really the more likely to play HBF.
I'd also add O'Keefe (He'll be back) and Lucas amongst that lot.

Even though HBF may not be the first thought for Lucas, I just feel he has the tools to make a smart re-bounding back.
Wouldn't be surprised for him to take up this position next year.


Addendum: No matter who we may have tried and used here before, the aim would be to settle a back six largely in the vein of a Geelong (at their best) and St.Kilda
I also don't think we explicitly set out to drfat HB Flankers unless we saw a need there to further the cause of the CFC

 

[Monkey King]

A blind man could see that we have a strong tendency to draft HBFs and that's really the point of the thread.

And this is Serge's lemon twist. Are you talking about where the coaches have been playing these guys, or for what position they were drafted?

If, as you've alluded to in bold, you are talking about positional drafting, then you've started way off course listing Gibbs and Bower, who were never drafted with an eye to filling the HBF role.

Dennis Armfield (drafted as a BP/Utility AFAIC)
Paul Bower (drafted as AA CHB)
Andrew Carrazzo
Marcus Davies
Nicholas Duigan
Bryce Gibbs
Ryan Houlihan
Aaron Joseph
Jeremy Laidler
Patrick McCarthy (drafted in the hope of developing as a KPD)
Andrew McInnes
Jordan Russell (was a mid/defender at Westies, drafted as a utility)
Heath Scotland
Bret Thornton
Andrew Walker (played there at U18 champs, but not drafted for a HBF role)
Simon White (more third tall than HBF)
Chris Yarran


So out of the five listed to be actually drafted as HBF's, three were acquired this year and one last year; the fifth was drafted more as a utility, but HBF he is, so I'll concede him. Sounds like they're trying to free up those currently locked this role who weren't intended to be, if you ask me.

I don't want to have a shot at your premise, as there has been more focus on these roles at the draft table than has ever been on snapping up KPP's; so there is merit in your point. I just think listing all these guys as "drafted HBF's" is fairly misleading.

 

[fbfpf]

You missed Joe Dare.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Cant agree Harks, Lucas is a mid and played off hb in his first season and will only play there in future when giving the actual hbf a rest. Often mids are eased in from the hb line, but he wont live there from now on, he is of far to much value around the ground.

We have been recruiting HBF this year in order to free these players (Gibbs, Lucas and IMO Russell) to play on ball roles as the need for ever deeper mid rotations with a smaller bench kicks in. If Laidler, Duigan and McInnes come on then these 3 (Gibbs, Lucas, Russel) will rotate with them and the onballers through the middle but the HB's go to the bench and back on to the hb line freeing up the aforementioned mid relief player back onto the ball so the actual (first line) onballers get their bench time, then finally the aforementioned get their bench time.

I expect both Laidler and Duigan to play this role next year and McInnes the development depth replacement for them. Competition for places is getting tight, but the days of specialist HBF is near an end, and they (and HFF) will also have to be mids. The game wont get slower. Eventually there will only be 3 types of players, smalls, talls and in and unders. And all will be expected to be able to play somewhere else when required or to ease rotations through the bench including ruckmen, that is why athletic rucks with huge motors and great second efforts are so valuable now, and they must also have the ability to go forward or back when needed, the days of the lumbering tap ruck is well and truly over. Thats my take.

 

[Amers]

You missed Joe Dare.

had to laugh at this.

 

[HARKER]

I just don't think HBF should be a dirty term. It isn't for Hodge who started out as a mid and if we have an abundance of excellent mids they need to go somewhere. Watch Lucas for his ball reading and it isn't hard to understand why he may just end up there and coupled with his dash and line breaking, you just don't know.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I just don't think HBF should be a dirty term. It isn't for Hodge who started out as a mid and if we have an abundance of excellent mids they need to go somewhere. Watch Lucas for his ball reading and it isn't hard to understand why he may just end up there and coupled with his dash and line breaking, you just don't know.

Its not, a hbf either defends his man, their attacking half forward or he is an attacking rebounder that their defensive half forward has to defend. But in future the half forwards and half backs will also be rotating on ballers. Thats all.

In the past there was some stigma about mids that couldnt cut it playing back pocket on their resting rover. Some say Adrian Whitehead fitted this description. I remember it being a sledge that a player was hidden in the back pocket if he was having a dirty day. Regardless of the accuracy of that notion nothing could be further from the truth these days.

 

[gandaal]

I have acknowledged it is an interesting observation, one not too hard to rationalize as we have already fleshed out in what 7 posts.

So why the need to exaggerate then. The moment you named Yarran and AJ as hbf's you lost all credence for your argument, when you didnt need to. Its not that devious or cunning a plan to draft defensive ball users, as dumb has pointed out or to instill in ball users a defensive nature by making them play in......wait for it.........defense, give that man a cigar.

Lucas was not recruited last year as a back flanker but he started there. So what? Long after he is tearing it up in the middle do you think people will label him just a glorified hbfer? And the irony is you didnt name him in your list yet thats the only position he has played for the club, but you did name Yarran and he has never ever played there for the club. Ever!

Yep, this ones done and dusted already. Shame really, could have been an interesting discussion.

Blues recruits show promise
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/blues-recruits-show-promise/story-e6frf9jf-1225996609649

Chris Yarran took up an unfamiliar role across half back and gave his team plenty of drive.

Yep, he's not a half back flank at all

Yarran was always going to be a HBF.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gandaal, Yarran will not be a HBF as such. He may play there on occasion depending on needs but there are reasons for that. Firstly, think about the coach. What was Ratten known for? One of the best in and under midfielders in the game. Yet he spent a couple of seasons in a back pocket learning to be accountable and honing his reading of the ball and his disposal.

Any time Yarran is back, the following tactics are in play.

1. Keeping him on the field while Garlett and Betts are doing their job up forward.
2. Getting him into the play if he is getting starved elsewhere.
3. Developing his accountability.
4. Using his kicking skills if our backline is turning it over too much and we need a safe outlet.

This is no way makes him a HBF.

I remember SOS playing an awful lot at CHB one year. What do you reckon he was?

You have quality players and you rotate them around the field as needed in order to fit them in. Let's not pigeon hole those players as proof of a recruiting oversight.

 

[Silvagnis]

Yarran was always going to be a HBF.

Racist.

 

[TNBT]

Its not, a hbf either defends his man, their attacking half forward or he is an attacking rebounder that their defensive half forward has to defend. But in future the half forwards and half backs will also be rotating on ballers. Thats all.

In the past there was some stigma about mids that couldnt cut it playing back pocket on their resting rover. Some say Adrian Whitehead fitted this description. I remember it being a sledge that a player was hidden in the back pocket if he was having a dirty day. Regardless of the accuracy of that notion nothing could be further from the truth these days.

I have only ever played one game of footy, and that was for my primary school back in the day. I have always loved footy, but I never really wanted to play it. Anyway, I was only in the team because I was a big kid and played sports (basketball mainly), so the coach put me in the back-pocket. I didn't get a touch all game. Maybe that explains why the coach put me back there!

 

[TNBT]

Blues recruits show promise
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/blues-recruits-show-promise/story-e6frf9jf-1225996609649



Yep, he's not a half back flank at all

Yarran was always going to be a HBF.

Just curious mate, but did you actually read that quote? If so, did you notice the word "unfamiliar" in there? That word was there because, as 30year has said all along, Yarran hasn't played there, and has always played as a forward who can drift into the midfield. Will different players get a run at HBF at some point? Sure. Does that make them all HBF's? Nope.

As was said, Fev played in the unfamiliar role of full-back one day. Does that mean the Voss should have Fev's name on his list of full-back options for this season?

 

[gandaal]

Just curious mate, but did you actually read that quote? If so, did you notice the word "unfamiliar" in there? That word was there because, as 30year has said all along, Yarran hasn't played there, and has always played as a forward who can drift into the midfield. Will different players get a run at HBF at some point? Sure. Does that make them all HBF's? Nope.

As was said, Fev played in the unfamiliar role of full-back one day. Does that mean the Voss should have Fev's name on his list of full-back options for this season?

Unfamiliar to the journalist prehaps but not to Yarran. It's not the first time he's played there.

Yarran was always going to be a HBF but The Old Dark Navy's is hopefully correct too (although I have to wonder about the logic of a statement that playing half back flank doesn't make someone a half back flank ). Here's hoping it's just a stepping stone to greater things down the road when he moves into the midfield, although in the modern game the HBF is a vital position.

General I don't know if you're trying to be funny but that's pretty offensive.