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Hamilton says Lance Doped

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What you also have to remember. Everyone says Hamilton has no credibility etc. He had no choice to confess. He was called in front of the grand jury. He was never going to talk but when he was there he had to. If he lied he would go to jail because eventually the grit would have come out and it did come out via hincapie and landis. So to say these people have no credibility is misguided and proves people are brainwashed by Armstrong. What would you do? Would you lie in front of a grand jury?
 

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Sasquatch said:
What you also have to remember. Everyone says Hamilton has no credibility etc. He had no choice to confess. He was called in front of the grand jury. He was never going to talk but when he was there he had to. If he lied he would go to jail because eventually the grit would have come out and it did come out via hincapie and landis. So to say these people have no credibility is misguided and proves people are brainwashed by Armstrong. What would you do? Would you lie in front of a grand jury?
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The only information I have on the American legal system comes from that of Hollywood flicks and The Good Wife, but can't you plead the "5th" under the premise that if you testify you may incriminate yourself? And if that's the case, why are any of them saying anything?
 
blackcat said:
that is a myth, Armstrong has actually never one, sorry, won, a libel suit, and he has only used the courts to get his insurance payout, and to keep David Walsh from publishing in the UK.

The US wont have a bar of exposure, until the dams burst, around 18 months back. Cos he is the feedstock that fits the US mythology and dreamscapes of Today (show on NBC), Letterman, Leno, et al. The opium of the masses that can keep consuming Nike product, and keep buying "awareness" as a public good charity.

NB. see the advent in Aus of a niche Armstrong was key to making business from charity, not just rich art networking charity dinners in Manhattan.

Movemeber, Jane McGrath cricket day. Pink Ribbon, Jeans for Genes, Daffodil day, lots of awareness going round eh?
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:rolleyes: or! it'd just be very bad for the sport for a 7-time winner to come up as a cheater.

there is either conclusive evidence, or there isn't. This is becoming a farce.
 
At the moment they are only after Armstrong and as the others have cooperated they will be fine.

Put it to you bluntly.

Andreau's, Hamilton, Landis, Hincapie and everyone that testified are going to spend a long time in Jail.

or

Armstrong is going to spend a long time in Jail.

If Armstrong wins the case then the law will state that they lied under oath and therefore they will get punished.

If Armstrong loses the case it's him that is going to be punished.

If Hamilton, Hincapie etc lied under oath saying they didn't dope and Armstrong goes down and it's proven they were involved, then they are up shit creek.

So they had a calculated decision to make. Lie in the hope that Armstrong gets off or tell the truth knowing that there's a good chance he won't get off. So they told the truth. Nothing will happen to them unless Armstrong wins the case as it's Armstrong they are after.

And I'll also add that any legal action against them if Armstrong is proven guilty will be dependent on if they want to pursue action against those who testified. And I highly doubt action will be taken as they have cooperated and they haven't laundered money etc like Armstrong has done. Speaking of money laundering if investigators took a decent look at Livestrong, they will find it's not above board there.

Armstrong is up shit creek without a paddle. He is gone for good and it's about time. If he gets off then they may as well legalise doping.
 
Sasquatch said:
What you also have to remember. Everyone says Hamilton has no credibility etc. He had no choice to confess. He was called in front of the grand jury. He was never going to talk but when he was there he had to. If he lied he would go to jail because eventually the grit would have come out and it did come out via hincapie and landis. So to say these people have no credibility is misguided and proves people are brainwashed by Armstrong. What would you do? Would you lie in front of a grand jury?
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i assume you mean in addition to having no credibility, he had no choice but to confess. Hamilton got done twice, the 2nd time leading to his retirement. And dont forget the Athens A-sample positive he got away with because the B-sample was destroyed, that is, until now.

It seems to me that the ultimate result for you here would be the downfall of Armstrong.........are you making this personal? Im hoping that if there is conclusive evidence that there was in fact a UCI cover up, then it will finally bring the demise of the body in it's current guise. A fish rots from the proverbial head. The way Pat McQuad & the UCI have introduced the new World Tour and criteria for awarding licenses to teams is just an example of the coniving way they go about their work with a total lack of transparency. There is a culture of governance in the organising body that needs to change.
 
It's not personal.

The sport of cycling needs Armstrong to come clean or get found guilty and the UCI to get shown up as the frauds they are. That's the only way the sport can move forward.
 
Sasquatch said:
At the moment they are only after Armstrong and as the others have cooperated they will be fine.

Put it to you bluntly.

Andreau's, Hamilton, Landis, Hincapie and everyone that testified are going to spend a long time in Jail.

or

Armstrong is going to spend a long time in Jail.

If Armstrong wins the case then the law will state that they lied under oath and therefore they will get punished.

If Armstrong loses the case it's him that is going to be punished.

If Hamilton, Hincapie etc lied under oath saying they didn't dope and Armstrong goes down and it's proven they were involved, then they are up shit creek.

So they had a calculated decision to make. Lie in the hope that Armstrong gets off or tell the truth knowing that there's a good chance he won't get off. So they told the truth. Nothing will happen to them unless Armstrong wins the case as it's Armstrong they are after.

And I'll also add that any legal action against them if Armstrong is proven guilty will be dependent on if they want to pursue action against those who testified. And I highly doubt action will be taken as they have cooperated and they haven't laundered money etc like Armstrong has done. Speaking of money laundering if investigators took a decent look at Livestrong, they will find it's not above board there.

Armstrong is up shit creek without a paddle. He is gone for good and it's about time. If he gets off then they may as well legalise doping.
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In regards to the jail time, are you positive this is what will happen?
 

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how painful did it look for Hamilton in that 60 minutes interview. His eyes were darting around everywhere his forehead would line up and his expression would freeze whenever he responded. In regards to questioning re Armstrong, he kept qualifying his responses at the end by adding "but we all did it." Really tried to make a point of not seeming to leave Armstrong swinging in the breeze.

He looked as though he was regretting undertaking the interview, while doing it.
 
mcgarnacle said:
how painful did it look for Hamilton in that 60 minutes interview. His eyes were darting around everywhere his forehead would line up and his expression would freeze whenever he responded. In regards to questioning re Armstrong, he kept qualifying his responses at the end by adding "but we all did it." Really tried to make a point of not seeming to leave Armstrong swinging in the breeze.

He looked as though he was regretting undertaking the interview, while doing it.
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I guess it was partly that feeling of throwing a mate (former mate? Im not sure nowadays) under a bus, while at the same time getting the weight of the world of his shoulders. I think there was a bit of both there.
 
New ashenden interview: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ashendens-view-on-armstrong-doping-allegations

another person i thought of recently who never failed a drug test (yet everyone knew HE was guilty), ben cousins

oh and marion jones, she even went to jail.

i think if anything this whole saga goes to show is that drug testing is pretty inadequate against sports teams with highly trained (and highly paid, dr ferrari anyone?) doctors on their books.
 
Sasquatch said:
It's not personal.

The sport of cycling needs Armstrong to come clean or get found guilty and the UCI to get shown up as the frauds they are. That's the only way the sport can move forward.
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This. Especially the UCI. I have no sympathy for Armstrong, because of the shitty human being he's proven himself to be, but the most important target in this whole saga are the corrupt UCI, directeur sportifs, doctors, etc.

All the rot needs to be cut out before the healing can really begin.
 
Armstrong is a filthy human being. He intimidates everyone. Everyone that stood up to him during his Tour de France years, he shat on. People are/were scared to go against him. Not anymore.
 

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