Harcourt presentation "bombshell"

[tigerwill]

And where have I said that? Just wondering why Yaco is a month behind is all.

Probably was searching for 10 articles somewhere.

 

[DapperDon]

ANd you'd know that how?

Really?

 

[jenny61_99]

Really?

For one to make a comment on how long another spends on here, one must also spend similar amounts of time to know this, yes? Didn't think that through very well, did you!

 

[tesla1962]

For one to make a comment on how long another spends on here, one must also spend similar amounts of time to know this, yes? Didn't think that through very well, did you!

No. Not being a smart arse but it's easy to come in here and fairly quickly scan the threads to find out who is on here all day and who visits from time to time.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

For one to make a comment on how long another spends on here, one must also spend similar amounts of time to know this, yes? Didn't think that through very well, did you!

Hey, 'Jenny'. Haven't seen you around here much lately. What's happening?

 

[jenny61_99]

No. Not being a smart arse but it's easy to come in here and fairly quickly scan the threads to find out who is on here all day and who visits from time to time.

Assumptions are made that shouldn't be. It's possible to come in from time to time (in between meetings/projects etc) a quick response and off you go. not a lot of time is required - particularly recently when there's been not too much to talk about. Assumptions shouldn't be made.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No. Not being a smart arse but it's easy to come in here and fairly quickly scan the threads to find out who is on here all day and who visits from time to time.

Nah. Post in a thread. Check notifications on phone. Click, click, what a load of rubbish ... respond, over in 2 minutes. Back to real world.

 

[Gavstar]

From the Age

"Meanwhile, the AFL will begin monitoring the health of Essendon players. Testing led by the chief medical officer Dr Peter Harcourt will start next week.
The players were involved in the Bombers' controversial supplements program in 2011-12.
"It's a proper process being worked through with the club led by Peter Harcourt, and it's an appropriate response," McLachlan said"

 

[jenny61_99]

From the Age

"Meanwhile, the AFL will begin monitoring the health of Essendon players. Testing led by the chief medical officer Dr Peter Harcourt will start next week.
The players were involved in the Bombers' controversial supplements program in 2011-12.
"It's a proper process being worked through with the club led by Peter Harcourt, and it's an appropriate response," McLachlan said"

Shouldn't Essendon be doing that?

 

[Albert Ross]

Shouldn't Essendon be doing that?

Most of the players will not be Essendon players over the next few years. They will retire, be delisted, move to other clubs. In 5 years time the 36 will be closer to 6. AFL makes more sense.

 

[The 747]

From the Age

"Meanwhile, the AFL will begin monitoring the health of Essendon players. Testing led by the chief medical officer Dr Peter Harcourt will start next week.
The players were involved in the Bombers' controversial supplements program in 2011-12.
"It's a proper process being worked through with the club led by Peter Harcourt, and it's an appropriate response," McLachlan said"

Would like to know if EFC are picking up the tab.

 

[BomberBro2]

From the Age

"Meanwhile, the AFL will begin monitoring the health of Essendon players. Testing led by the chief medical officer Dr Peter Harcourt will start next week.
The players were involved in the Bombers' controversial supplements program in 2011-12.
"It's a proper process being worked through with the club led by Peter Harcourt, and it's an appropriate response," McLachlan said"

I think most people recognise the healthcare provisions are a bit of a PR stunt for the image of the game.

It's like how on a panadol packet it says 'may cause severe headaches and nausea' - healthcare is deliberately extremely precautionary above and beyond statistically significant possibilities. It does not mean there is a realistic chance that our players may have health issues as a result of our program.

 

[Laphroaig]

It's like how on a panadol packet it says 'may cause severe headaches and nausea' - healthcare is deliberately extremely precautionary above and beyond statistically significant possibilities. It does not mean there is a realistic chance that our players may have health issues as a result of our program.

You simply don't know that.

The warnings on the back of approved drugs are the result of testing. The test data shows that some people may suffer the listed side effects, and it means that the small risk has been weighed up and deemed worthwhile.

The data on the shit Essendon gave it's players doesn't say anything. Because there is either no data, or insufficient data to make a considered judgement.

So the hypothetical label on the back says

Risks: Nobody has any **** ing idea.

 

[The Scales]

You simply don't know that.

The warnings on the back of approved drugs are the result of testing. The test data shows that some people may suffer the listed side effects, and it means that the small risk has been weighed up and deemed worthwhile.

The data on the shit Essendon gave it's players doesn't say anything. Because there is either no data, or insufficient data to make a considered judgement.

So the hypothetical label on the back saysa
Risks: Nobody has any **** ing idea.

Ho hum, all the soft **** pharmaceutical companies provide a litany of disclaimers of potential side-effects of all products on the market to save themselves from potential litigation. The AFL/ASADA target testing from 2011/12 should provide evidentiary basis for health risks, based on ingested compounds/drugs.

Not evident? Then nothing to see here. But please maintain your AFL/ASADA based faux outrage. Mathematically, you can still qualify to play finals, if the EFC is again expunged. Live in hope.

 

[the conch]

Absolutely agree - they have nothing at all. Essendon's injunction to block the use of player testimony is just a bit of fun and an interesting academic exercise which benefits us all.
You know what - I would love to see how this plays out properly where players can respond to show cause notices but the club is too busy being worried about self incrimination.
Maybe you're right - they're not guilty - who knows. So why don't we find out sooner than later?

It took like 10-15 years to get Armstrong. I don't think the players would know all of what they were getting. They were cocktails anyway... compounding chemist. But their was quite a few in on this conspiracy to cheat.

 

[the conch]

The contents of AFL Medical Officer Peter Harcourt's presentation in Zurich in late 2013 is indeed a "bombshell".

It sheds light on what led to the ASADA investigation into the EFC supplement program and, even more significantly, it helps us understand some aspects of the way the investigation has evolved.

It reveals that in 2012 the AFL, for reasons not explained, suspected EFC of using banned substances. Combine this with the revelation of the contents of a letter provided to Essendon players and officials prior to their ASADA interviews, which states that the investigation was aimed at the suspected use of 3 growth hormone related peptides (GRHP-2 GRHP-6 & CJC1295), and we start to understand what the AFL & ASADA expected to find when the EFC was pushed into "self reporting" in Feb 2013.

Harcourt's presentation shows the fears that the AFL & ASADA had about player safety and cancer risks etc were a major concern, and underlay the dramatic nature of what the AFL leaked to Fairfax during the investigation.

However, after an investigation lasting 16 months, the expected outcome of EFC being found to have given growth hormone related peptides to its players has failed to emerge.

Despite their best attempts, the combined efforts of ASADA & the AFL have produced absolutely no evidence to support the original suspicion!

In July 2013, the AFL, having carefully laid the groundwork by selective leaks of damning tidbits of "evidence" via its Fairfax mouthpiece, is left in an awkward position. Essendon is winning enough games to make it a likely finals participant. The AFL has convinced the public that EFC has used illegal performance enhancing supplements. But there is still no sign of any damning evidence to support the original suspicion.

What can the AFL do? It solicits an interim report from ASADA with enough bits & pieces of emails & texts to make it look like something bad has happened (eventhough they can't find any evidence of it). They take strong action against the club, excluding them from the finals & imposing a ban on golden boy James Hird, who has threatened to upset the whole master plan by exposing the AFL manipulation of the investigation to its own chosen agenda. It then hopes the whole thing will fade away, with no further action against the players.

However, ASADA has a different need. Having been thrust into the role of prosecuting the case following the ACC "darkest day" press event, it can't just let the whole thing fade away.

The presumption of growth hormone use has proved to be a fallacy. Blood tests of the entire playing group have shown no sign of its use. No evidence of its use at EFC can found. But the whole investigation was founded on the belief it had been used.

ASADA is desperate to find something........anything, to justify its investigation, and not look like a lame duck pursuing something that doesn't exist.

AOD use is established, but ASADA can't prosecute it without looking incompetent for giving wrong advice.

What is left?
There is plenty of evidence that Dank used "thymosin", one form of which is banned. ASADA have enough in texts and emails involving Dank to be able to make a circumstantial case that it might have been the illegal TB4.

They have evidence from Charter that he ordered TB4 for Dank, and a non committal statement from Alavi that he could possibly have made up either the legal or the illegal form of "thymosin" for Dank from the raw materials provided by Charter.

The trouble is it is only a pathetically inadequate amount for the purpose it is supposed to have served. No matter, it is the best ASADA can come up with. Let's ignore that it might have been for use by Dank's customers other than EFC, let's ignore that there was only one invoice for this small amount of whichever form of thymosin it was, and that that invoice was withdrawn, presumably because the thymosin never reached the club.

TB4 it is then.

What started out as a hunt for human growth hormone related GRHP-2, GRHP-6 & CJC1295 ends up as a prosecution of an unlikely and trumped up case for the use of TB4.

Harcourt's fears for player health as a consequence of the use of HGH related substances is just an AFL illusion, conjured up by an over reaction to ACC suspicions that have proven unfounded.

Loveable Caroline's slanderous condemnation of James Hird and the EFC hierarchy turns out to be gutter journalism of award winning grandeur.

The heart wrenching story of "Sarah" remains a mystery to all those naive enough to doubt the depth to which the AFL is willing to stoop to manipulate public opinion.

Discuss.

Ironically, it would be better now for EFC if footy dept 2012 were convicted as cheats, Hird gone and club could move on.
The investigation is not the thing ... the health of the players, the fairness of the comp is... and at least Caro has got that right.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think most people recognise the healthcare provisions are a bit of a PR stunt for the image of the game.

It's like how on a panadol packet it says 'may cause severe headaches and nausea' - healthcare is deliberately extremely precautionary above and beyond statistically significant possibilities. It does not mean there is a realistic chance that our players may have health issues as a result of our program.

Crystal Ball?

 

[Laphroaig]

Ho hum, all the soft **** pharmaceutical companies provide a litany of disclaimers of potential side-effects of all products on the market to save themselves from potential litigation. The AFL/ASADA target testing from 2011/12 should provide evidentiary basis for health risks, based on ingested compounds/drugs.

Leaving aside for a moment the gaping holes in that logic, what you're championing there is the use of healthy young men as guinea pigs.

Give em the shit and see what happens.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Ho hum, all the soft **** pharmaceutical companies provide a litany of disclaimers of potential side-effects of all products on the market to save themselves from potential litigation. The AFL/ASADA target testing from 2011/12 should provide evidentiary basis for health risks, based on ingested compounds/drugs.

Can you or Essendon tell us what those drugs were?

It might be a really good starting point

 

[hirdylloydy1]

Can you or Essendon tell us what those drugs were?

It might be a really good starting point

Essendon probably dont think your important enough to tell. essendon however, have told asada and the only one they disagree on is tb4. Does that set your mind at ease?

 

[Argy]

Essendon probably dont think your important enough to tell. essendon however, have told asada and the only one they disagree on is tb4. Does that set your mind at ease?

Lie.

 

[IanW]

I think most people recognise the healthcare provisions are a bit of a PR stunt for the image of the game.

It's like how on a panadol packet it says 'may cause severe headaches and nausea' - healthcare is deliberately extremely precautionary above and beyond statistically significant possibilities. It does not mean there is a realistic chance that our players may have health issues as a result of our program.

It is posts like this that reinforce the point that the Essendon Football Club nor it's supporters care about the health of their players.

Remember, Jon Mannah is dead, and he died soon after he was given growth promotants by the Chief Sports Scientist of the Essendon Football Club.

Monitoring the health of the poor misled bastards who made the mistake of trusting the Essendon Football Club is the least we can do.

 

[tesla1962]

It is posts like this that reinforce the point that the Essendon Football Club nor it's supporters care about the health of their players.

Remember, Jon Mannah is dead, and he died soon after he was given growth promotants by the Chief Sports Scientist of the Essendon Football Club.

Monitoring the health of the poor misled bastards who made the mistake of trusting the Essendon Football Club is the least we can do.

Crikey! Is this the article you are talking about? Some of the comments beneath the article are interesting.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8648732

1. There is no evidence that EFC were administered CJC or GHRP

2. Dank says he didn't administer anything banned at Cronulla

You are implying in your post that this guy died due to what he was given by Dank (otherwise you wouldn't have linked them in the one sentence). That is a very serious accusation you are making there IanW - heavy stuff mate

 

[Argy]

Crikey! Is this the article you are talking about? Some of the comments beneath the article are interesting.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8648732

1. There is no evidence that EFC were administered CJC or GHRP

2. Dank says he didn't administer anything banned at Cronulla

You are implying in your post that this guy died due to what he was given by Dank (otherwise you wouldn't have linked them in the one sentence). That is a very serious accusation you are making there IanW - heavy stuff mate

See what happens when you start playing loose with drugs? It opens you up to all sorts of accusations. Once you get labelled a cheat you have to live with the consequences.

 

[tesla1962]

See what happens when you start playing loose with drugs? It opens you up to all sorts of accusations. Once you get labelled a cheat you have to live with the consequences.

You really are a fool