Harcourt presentation "bombshell"

[Gavstar]

Interesting. The OP does provide a non-contradictory explanation of the behaviour of the AFL and ASADA over the last 17 months.

The players are safe (from infractions)*. AFL and ASADA are not - both at sometime will have to explain themselves at the eventual enquiry. ASADA can have no satisfactory explanation for not pursuing AOD. The AFL and ASADA have both proved themselves to be self-serving and incompetent.

*added qualification for clarity

Really the players are safe? Do you have evidence of this? Lack of a positive test for things for which a test is yet to be developed hmmm surprising is it. For a positive test for "peptide-hormones" ASADA would basically have to be co-located in the off-site clinic with Dank and the players.

ASADA may be focused on the TB4 administered in a specific week rather than the months of taking it why do you think that is. Was there something different about that week?

 

[nineteen eighty]

Just a question.

Do you honestly believe, that essendon was the only club on this type of program?

Using off-label, not approved for human use drugs...YES!

Using other forms of PED's including testo cream and other variants of HGH type PED's...no.

Your question is not relevant though to what you are going through. You got caught...plain and simple. If you copped your whack back when it all came out, this would all be done and dusted. The players would have copped six months (without admitting to guilt), 2013 would have been a write-off due to having to have to play your VFL team but at least it would have been done and dusted.

Only problem...for the above to have happened, certain coaches and staff would have had to put their hand up and admit the role they played and what exactly went down. No ethics. No morals amongst that lot.

 

[PoopingHindi]

so something dodgey is going on because an investigation was launched after the AFL suspected Essendon of cheating.
should the investigation have started before?

so sick of all this shit and the Bombers slimey attempts to get away with/justify cheating.
give the players 6 months, the club 4 years and be done with it

 

[Baldur]

Just a question.

Do you honestly believe, that essendon was the only club on this type of program?

Yes I do honestly believe that Essendon was the only club injecting drugs into their players dozens of times to improve performance. Drugs not approved for human use, or only approved to treat old folks with Mexico and some drugs Essendon is not even sure what they where. Yes I am certain that only Essendon in the AFL was doing this.

 

[QuietB]

Take drugs that cannot be detected by tests. So tests find nothing. Really, what a shocking revelation.

But the Aussie today has an interesting story from Chip Le Petit.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...975763998?nk=6c68cbdecadc659388f5f473d3ad204e

"AFL medical director Peter Harcourt told an international anti-doping conference...“We did have some wind of this during the course of the year — it was 2012 — and so we did arrange through ASADA to have a number of specimens sent to the Cologne laboratory rather than the Sydney laboratory but nothing came out of it,’’"

Which means I owe the AFL an apology, they did not just try to sweep it under the carpet in 2012 but attempted to discover the truth. Well done AFL.

But it appears that the AFL medical director Peter Harcourt is a foamer.

"Harcourt said the combined cost of the ASADA-AFL investigation into Essendon was “$5 million and counting’’. He described as “crazy’’ club staff who oversaw the program of peptide injections and took aim at a “fan syndrome’’ at work at Essendon, which resulted in retired players in leadership positions intimidating club management.

He also took aim at the willingness of Essendon players to submit themselves to the supplement program designed and administered by Dank."

Pretty much what us foamers have been saying about the crazies at Essendon and the fanboi worship of Hird.

If the AFL were genuinely trying to uncover this I owe an apology as well. Except to say that the guys at the coal face might have been diligent in their jobs but I think a fair bit got lost in translation and/or buried along the way by the time it got to the guys at the top who are running the whole show.

 

[QuietB]

Just a question.

Do you honestly believe, that essendon was the only club on this type of program?

Relevance?

 

[Anoncomment]

Harcourt's fears for player health as a consequence of the use of HGH related substances is just an AFL illusion, conjured up by an over reaction to ACC suspicions that have proven unfounded.

There are more growth factors than "HGH related substances" (that is a vague, inaccurate phrase, anyway), and a discussion of oncogenic growth factors generally centres more on things like VEGF, EGF and TGF-alpha.

 

[Tazmania]

Really the players are safe? Do you have evidence of this? Lack of a positive test for things for which a test is yet to be developed hmmm surprising is it. For a positive test for "peptide-hormones" ASADA would basically have to be co-located in the off-site clinic with Dank and the players.

ASADA may be focused on the TB4 administered in a specific week rather than the months of taking it why do you think that is. Was there something different about that week?

Someone sung like a canary? I wonder if Essendon suspect this and this explains why they are so very keen to get access to the evidence prior to the ADVRP.

 

[Oneiros]

Just a question.

Do you honestly believe, that essendon was the only club on this type of program?

In this scale and manner? Yes, I honestly do.

 

[IanW]

The article also talks about indididuals trying to exlpoit the nuances of the WADA list and having knowledge that some of the substances were so new, that laboratories couldn't deal with them.
Not sure if TB4 is that new it couldn't be tested for. Also is the investigation ongoing and possibly more substances could be added to SC notices.
The real issue this article points to IMO is the experimental environment the players were placed in and how the long term effects could be quiet significant.

There is a test for TB4, but it was designed by the Hong Kong Jockey Club for use on horse urine.

For some strange reason, it doesnt seem that reliable on humans.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

It reveals that in 2012 the AFL, for reasons not explained, suspected EFC of using banned substances. Combine this with the revelation of the contents of a letter provided to Essendon players and officials prior to their ASADA interviews, which states that the investigation was aimed at the suspected use of 3 growth hormone related peptides (GRHP-2 GRHP-6 & CJC1295), and we start to understand what the AFL & ASADA expected to find when the EFC was pushed into "self reporting" in Feb 2013.

So because the AFL suspected Essendon were using a different drug to what ASADA have found, that makes it all OK?

 

[IanW]

So because the AFL suspected Essendon were using a different drug to what ASADA have found, that makes it all OK?

To what ASADA think they can prove, thank you.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

The good news just keeps on rolling in for the EFC. I'm surprised ASADA are now persisting with he case in light of several developments which indicate our exoneration is not a matter of if, but only when. The exposure and embarrassment for the government employees involved right up to the politicians who've dirtied their hands in this corrupt and shambolic investigator will be a beautiful thing to watch. Heads will roll.

#cleanAFL
#StandbytheDaw

 

[ziad]

I have posed elsewhere on the expansive site that I have previously trained with people using PED.

Two things stick out:

1. They work brilliantly - it is cheating - in fact they work so well that if not policed their use would be compulsory to even get drafted etc.
2. The health side effect over time are massive - the individuals are either dead prematurely of quite ill. A review of the ranks of elite athletes who have used PED corroborates this.

Thus they must be policed with great vigour.

Go ASADA

 

[Jam123]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...975763998?nk=b4b6602bddd18424fa5b7041fa37e0e5

"It is understood that lawyers acting for the players have not been told of the tests or seen the results. Thymosin Beta 4, the banned peptide at the centre of the Essendon doping case, is renowned for being difficult to detect through drug-testing."

"At the time of last year’s so-called “blackest day in Australian sport’’, the Cologne laboratory was one of only two in the world capable of testing for the presence of peptides."

"AFL medical director Peter Harcourt told an international anti-doping conference that when ASADA became suspicious of Essendon’s unorthodox supplements program run by sports scientist Stephen Dank, it sent blood samples for analysis at the Institute of Biochemistry at the Germany Sport University.

The samples were found to be clean."

So on what basis have they come to the conclusion that TB4 was taken if it came back negative? They sent it to the Cologne laboratory because it was able to detect peptides.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

After the AFL and ASADA warned Hird not to use peptides, perhaps he shouldn't have. Instead he went "black ops".

All of our supplements were legal, the infamous warning is non event. It's akin to us feeding the players 9 Pollywaffles each day after being told it's a bad idea by a dietician, it may not be best practice, but it ain't illegal, old china.

 

[ziad]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...975763998?nk=b4b6602bddd18424fa5b7041fa37e0e5

"It is understood that lawyers acting for the players have not been told of the tests or seen the results. Thymosin Beta 4, the banned peptide at the centre of the Essendon doping case, is renowned for being difficult to detect through drug-testing."

"At the time of last year’s so-called “blackest day in Australian sport’’, the Cologne laboratory was one of only two in the world capable of testing for the presence of peptides."

"AFL medical director Peter Harcourt told an international anti-doping conference that when ASADA became suspicious of Essendon’s unorthodox supplements program run by sports scientist Stephen Dank, it sent blood samples for analysis at the Institute of Biochemistry at the Germany Sport University.

The samples were found to be clean."

So on what basis have they come to the conclusion that TB4 was taken if it came back negative? They sent it to the Cologne laboratory because it was able to detect peptides.

OR to be more precise:
Thymosin Beta 4 was used because it is renowned for being difficult to detect through drug-testing.
So ASADA have gathered evidence that is not underpinned by testing as WADA have used world wide to prosecute cheats.

 

[Big Sim]

Like many other self confessed drug cheats. Despite any bias surely thus isn't the only thing you gave gleaned out of this and other similar articles today.

Article points out Bomber players in health danger but club yet to sign up to health scheme - discuss

".....but it's all about the players"

Good post. That Essendon apologists use this article as ammunition against ASADA instead of as a source of outrage against those who used their players as lab rats says something about their perspective. Or lack thereof.

 

[markm106]

There is a test for TB4, but it was designed by the Hong Kong Jockey Club for use on horse urine.

For some strange reason, it doesnt seem that reliable on humans.

So I assume they didn't test for TB4.

 

[Big Sim]

All of our supplements were legal, the infamous warning is non event. It's akin to us feeding the players 9 Pollywaffles each day after being told it's a bad idea by a dietician, it may not be best practice, but it ain't illegal, old china.

So it being dangerous to their health is of no matter? Sheesh you guys.

 

[Mutt]

Just a question.

Do you honestly believe, that essendon was the only club on this type of program?

That's as weak as piss - smearing everyone else in your excrement in an attempt to draw attention away from what your club did to its' players.

Or do you think if you can suggest that others might be doing it, then it justifies EFC's pharmacological experiments on its human guinea pigs?

 

[Blueyboy74]

All of our supplements were legal, the infamous warning is non event. It's akin to us feeding the players 9 Pollywaffles each day after being told it's a bad idea by a dietician, it may not be best practice, but it ain't illegal, old china.

The club doesn't even know what they were given so how do you know they weren't illegal. Because Dank said so?

 

[andrevich]

Tests found nothing.

Discuss

I Suppose Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods are your favourite athletes of all time , chuck in the HGH fuelled Lebron James and Dwayne Wade in your list of admired sportsmen also .

 

[Jam123]

OR to be more precise:
Thymosin Beta 4 was used because it is renowned for being difficult to detect through drug-testing.
So ASADA have gathered evidence that is not underpinned by testing as WADA have used world wide to prosecute cheats.

It would be interesting to see the evidence. I'm assuming that the evidence of use must be stronger than the negative tests that came back after testing for illegal peptides in a laboratory that is able to detect peptides. Of course I know they are able to charge someone with doping without positive tests, but this seems pretty strong to me.

 

[andrevich]

Using off-label, not approved for human use drugs...YES!

Using other forms of PED's including testo cream and other variants of HGH type PED's...no.

Your question is not relevant though to what you are going through. You got caught...plain and simple. If you copped your whack back when it all came out, this would all be done and dusted. The players would have copped six months (without admitting to guilt), 2013 would have been a write-off due to having to have to play your VFL team but at least it would have been done and dusted.

Only problem...for the above to have happened, certain coaches and staff would have had to put their hand up and admit the role they played and what exactly went down. No ethics. No morals amongst that lot.

Don't think that no AFL players have used test patches and HGH plus EPO . It would scare most fans to know the numbers .