Coach John Longmire - Part III

[RW]

It is not the Rules. All teams face the same. We just have a crap style.

It is the rules - footy now rewards the player who doesn't take possession. Which is the opposite to what it should be and how we have been coached under Roos and now Longmire.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It is not the Rules. All teams face the same. We just have a crap style.

And a coach that won't change with the times. Most other coaches have got the memo, even Ross Lyon is having Freo playing more attractive footy.

 

[caesar88]

And only moments later, when the ball was in our forward half, all the players had pushed up and Richmond had an almost empty forward half.

It’s called a forward press and it is modern footy. Teams do it to us regularly as we are so poor at combating it. We used to be pretty good at doing it to opposition teams.

It’s modern footy, I don’t like it really, but it is what it is. You see empty forward lines all the time, it isn’t just us. Other teams just seem to spread harder than us enabling them to break through.

But it's been probably the trademark of the Longmire tenure, even when we were a dominant team. Winning the ball in the back half and looking up with no one afield. For all his strengths as a coach, I think he's never been much good at structuring a forward line, and now that the competition has kind of caught up and it's part of footy now as you say, our poor forward structures are finally being exposed and we can't paper over those cracks anymore. It's why we currently sit in the bottom four and haven't kicked over 100 in a long, long time.

 

[Tedeski]

Wallace just said on SEN that we went with a new game plan , go through the centre at all times , but turned it over and after half time changed it , as we were no good at it.

He's spot on. We need to stick to what we are good at & what we've trained for in the off season but every now & then roll the dice & go through the middle when momentum is going our way as we can easily pile on a succession of goals, something we struggle to do now.

It definitely looked different but fell apart once we got to the middle of the ground with the kick into or just outside of our forward 50 arc.

We'll get the balance right but which ever phase or style of game we choose to play, we must stick our tackles, take our first instinctive option & hit our targets. This is our biggest problem, hence the lack of inside 50s for the amount of ball we win. This will automatically make Reid, Ronke & Buddy much better throughout the game due to amount of ball going in.

 

[Tedeski]

And a coach that won't change with the times. Most other coaches have got the memo, even Ross Lyon is having Freo playing more attractive footy.

I repeat!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

He's spot on. We need to stick to what we are good at & what we've trained for in the off season but every now & then roll the dice & go through the middle when momentum is going our way as we can easily pile on a succession of goals, something we struggle to do now.

It definitely looked different but fell apart once we got to the middle of the ground with the kick into or just outside of our forward 50 arc.

We'll get the balance right but which ever phase or style of game we choose to play, we must stick our tackles, take our first instinctive option & hit our targets. This is our biggest problem, hence the lack of inside 50s for the amount of ball we win. This will automatically make Reid, Ronke & Buddy much better throughout the game due to amount of ball going in.

You are clearly intent on reducing our Club to #lolliesforNorf status. Even Jose has moved on. Politely suggest you do too.

You in fact did a great thing at the weekend, going to four games was it?

Putting our game aside, which game did you enjoy the most and why?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

He's spot on. We need to stick to what we are good at & what we've trained for in the off season but every now & then roll the dice & go through the middle when momentum is going our way as we can easily pile on a succession of goals, something we struggle to do now.

It definitely looked different but fell apart once we got to the middle of the ground with the kick into or just outside of our forward 50 arc.

We'll get the balance right but which ever phase or style of game we choose to play, we must stick our tackles, take our first instinctive option & hit our targets. This is our biggest problem, hence the lack of inside 50s for the amount of ball we win. This will automatically make Reid, Ronke & Buddy much better throughout the game due to amount of ball going in.

Wallace and others also abhor Horsey's chippety chip game style as both as unwatchable and as self defeating.

Someone made the point Horse has no idea how to structure a forward line or entries from the centre line forward. I think this is spot on.

 

[TheMase]

But it's been probably the trademark of the Longmire tenure, even when we were a dominant team. Winning the ball in the back half and looking up with no one afield. For all his strengths as a coach, I think he's never been much good at structuring a forward line, and now that the competition has kind of caught up and it's part of footy now as you say, our poor forward structures are finally being exposed and we can't paper over those cracks anymore. It's why we currently sit in the bottom four and haven't kicked over 100 in a long, long time.

To a degree I agree.

When we were a much better team (seasoned) we were far more successful in employing our own forward half press and this meant most of the game was played on our terms. Thus we weren’t as exposed to falling onto the opposition trap. We also had guys like Shaw (speed) and Malceski who were able to break an opposition press.

Our forward line has been at its worst the last two seasons (2018 and now 2019) and that has coincided with Johnson being the forward line coach. Even in 2017 we averaged 95 points, down to 82 in 2018 and 73 in 2019. One has to question whether it is Horse, Johnson or likely a combination.

Re: competition catching up
Teams have finally worked out if they get an even pressure contribution from their players, they are in with a shot of winning games. This used to be a strength of ours that has fallen away whilst most other team have improved.

 

[Tedeski]

You are clearly intent on reducing our Club to #lolliesforNorf status. Even Jose has moved on. Politely suggest you do too.

You in fact did a great thing at the weekend, going to four games was it?

Putting our game aside, which game did you enjoy the most and why?

Cats v Hawks.
Because more often than not they hit their targets & stuck their tackles. Doesn't matter what game style though because I also saw the supposed exciting Lions' gamestyle...........................which looked worse than ours because they missed targets & couldn't stick their tackles & didn't have as defensive a mindset that we at least do when the time comes for a grind.
You watch it change the closer teams get to finals.

 

[Tedeski]

Lions I was not at the game obviously though. Dees were terrible, quite terrible.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Cats v Hawks.
Because more often than not they hit their targets & stuck their tackles. Doesn't matter what game style though because I also saw the supposed exciting Lions' gamestyle...........................which looked worse than ours because they missed targets & couldn't stick their tackles & didn't have as defensive a mindset that we at least do when the time comes for a grind.
You watch it change the closer teams get to finals.

Thanks for that

 

[bedford]

And a coach that won't change with the times. Most other coaches have got the memo, even Ross Lyon is having Freo playing more attractive footy.

They have kicked over 100 points twice this year, we will struggle to do it once.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

They have kicked over 100 points twice this year, we will struggle to do it once.

Agreed even GC look more likely to do it

 

[bedford]

You need to watch the game B52. Kizza was one of the cleaner ball users and often his possies led to goals.

He had 11 possies champ

 

[kickthething]

I still struggle to agree we turned over most when we tried to play fast footy. We never really committed to fast footy at any real point as when we got half way up field we decided to take a minute to regroup and look for other options ... perhaps a perfect one... instead of pulling the trigger and keeping it going fast with a fast entry...that's predominately when we turned it over...now if it was on account as there was no forward structure...well...you do the math.

We are not committed to any particular method right now...we are potentially the deer in the headlights of the AFL.

 

[Kirkswan]

He butchered half his dozen possies

What about when he hit Buddies lead, and Buddy scored?

 

[Tedeski]

Agreed even GC look more likely to do it

They were terrific up to half time with 1.3.
Very attacking game style.

 

[bedford]

What about when he hit Buddies lead, and Buddy scored?

1

 

[SwansProudly]

That to me is one of the main causes of this board's complaints with the coaching IMO - I feel we are fast becoming a casualty of the AFL shifting the goalposts to favour certain styles of play adopted by certain clubs, as that is what the powers that be consider to be the most "attractive" brand of football to watch. I'm with Mase - I don't like it, but it is what it is.

Isn't this the style that some of the TV commentators referred to as "dirty footy" with Richmond and Geelong?

 

[The King!]

Norf and Melbourne taking all the heat anyway

Rightly so really

 

[The King!]

Surprised buddy is top 10 for contested marks

 

[scaryness]

Surprised buddy is top 10 for contested marks

Indictment on the rest of the comp if a half-fit 32 year old who was never good at marking is top 10.

Footy this year has been rough to watch, Swans being bad just makes it worse.

 

[The King!]

Indictment on the rest of the comp if a half-fit 32 year old who was never good at marking is top 10.

Footy this year has been rough to watch, Swans being bad just makes it worse.

Agree with that

I know I sound grumpy old man but there some awful footy generally at the moment

I mean it’s already so bloody commercial and the product on field blergh

I know scoring isn’t the be all end all but damn there were some great clashes where teams had shootouts back in the daY

Rules of the week

Rules to fix rules that were fixing the rules

Coaches manipulating rules

What’s this thread again? Building Rome that’s right

 

[TheMase]

Indictment on the rest of the comp if a half-fit 32 year old who was never good at marking is top 10.

Footy this year has been rough to watch, Swans being bad just makes it worse.

Yes and no. His marking has been up and down from a contested point of view across his career but statistically speaking his current average would be around the normal mark for 7th, if not higher across a season compared to many seasons, albeit off a small sample.

A statistic of the % of contested marks a player takes with reference to the amount of ball is kicked to a player might be a better measure given the amount we kick to Buddy (but I would imagine you’d need to pay for that $$$).

Probably the frustrating thing about his marking isn’t that he doesn’t take enough contested marks, that he just so often has his opponent absolutely beat but fails to take the mark. Oh well, good thing the rest of his game is out of this world!

So far in 2019:
Equal 7th with 2.40 per game
Statistical leader is on 4.4 but that is most likely statistical anomaly as you’ll see there has only been one season that was close and it was the only one over 3 per game (and it was one player).

2018:
Equal 9th with 2.00 per game (min 5 games)
2.79 the highest

2017
23rd with 1.67 per game
2.75 the highest
(Reid was 12th with 1.82)

2016
28th with 1.62
2.82 highest

2015
70th with 1.0
2.55 highest

2014
2nd with 2.32
2.33 highest
(Tippett 12th with 1.79)

2013
50th with 1.24
2.64 highest
(Special mention Mike Pyke 5th with 2.08)

2012
8th with 2.05
2.92 highest
(Tippett 3rd with Crows at 2.38)

2011
21st with 1.77
3.80 highest (Cloke nearly one per game more than the next player)
(Tippett 9th with Crows at 2.28)

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Norf and Melbourne taking all the heat anyway

Rightly so really

North not sure why Melbourne absolutely they have been beyond woeful.