Coach John Longmire - Part III

[zyzzbruh]

So why do we bother paying Longmire $800k per year, wouldn't it be prudent to let him walk to the Roos, install in a rookie coach and save the club $500k a year? It won't make any difference on game day

It does make a difference, just not in the way you think it does. Like I said, on GameDay he is almost irrelevant, it's all on the squad. Footy isn't a complicated game, the fundamentals are all the same, structures etc. There's no magic yearly formula, there's no genius coaches, Hardwick didn't just all of a sudden figure it all out, and in this so called fast running and pressure era west coast have come out and won it with the most stagnant game plan in recent years.

The coaches influence comes from motivating players, keeping the teams morale in check, building positive player relationships, building professional relationships with assistant coaches, stakeholders etc. All in all to build trust and gain respect so that the team you put out on the park week in week out, whether good or not, is a professional outfit. That's what you're paying for. Not a game plan. And that's what horse has delivered since day 1, it's given us our identity and culture that everyone sees as unmatchable. Not only is sacking one of the best coaches in recent times stupid, it's Russian roulette with the fabric of the club at stake.

 

[The Gong]

It does make a difference, just not in the way you think it does. Like I said, on GameDay he is almost irrelevant, it's all on the squad. Footy isn't a complicated game, the fundamentals are all the same, structures etc. There's no magic yearly formula, there's no genius coaches, Hardwick didn't just all of a sudden figure it all out, and in this so called fast running and pressure era west coast have come out and won it with the most stagnant game plan in recent years.

The coaches influence comes from motivating players, keeping the teams morale in check, building positive player relationships, building professional relationships with assistant coaches, stakeholders etc. All in all to build trust and gain respect so that the team you put out on the park week in week out, whether good or not, is a professional outfit. That's what you're paying for. Not a game plan. And that's what horse has delivered since day 1, it's given us our identity and culture that everyone sees as unmatchable. Not only is sacking one of the best coaches in recent times stupid, it's Russian roulette with the fabric of the club at stake.

Hardwick was a complete joke until he wasn't when they won the flag. Got the right cattle all singing from the same song sheet and he's a footy genius.

Same with Clarkson. He's a great coach for all the reasons you stated but he's not some mystical footy zen master. He developed a good footy system, recruited to be able to execute that system and had a bloody good list to boot.

 

[bedford]

We already know he will, even if we're premiers.
Carlton or the Saints from Bedder's info which I trust to be credible.

With now some at North exploring the option.

 

[bedford]

An attempt to do this more positively.........

Lloyd doesn't have great depth to his kicking, but he is very accurate (odd clanger aside). The move of Dawson to half back showed signs of what might be to come and what Longmire is looking for. But he also clanged one which hurt. Lloyd chips because there aren't options up the field. Now that is either work rate of the mids or it is the opposition keeping players in defence. That means we have to work the ball forward. It wasn't long ago we were complaining about bombing it.

Reid and Sinclair are out of marking form at the moment. Buddy has never been much of a mark. Should our targets be Cameron and McCartin? Maybe. But I don't think we're there yet. And Reid offers a bit at ground level, although I didn't see much of that against Richmond. Our mids have always worked back, which has been a big key to our success. For them to be able to work forward as well, they do need a bit of a chop out. Now that comes either with favourable ruckwork, and/or marks sticking up forward. Reid marks and the mids can stop running forward. They save a 200m sprint each time we take a mark up forward. Naismith rucks and we don't get smashed in stoppages by Gawn. And that saves mids legs as well (especially after a 5 day break).

We sit 13th for marks inside 50 and 15th for hit outs. Oddly, we're 4th for contested marks but I'd say that's people like Heeney up on the wing. We loved Sinclair last year but he's not been in form yet this year. 2 or 3 contested marks from him will make a world of difference. Reid finds his mojo up forward and that will make a world of difference too. Naismith giving us some ascendancy in the ruck will make a world of difference. Suddenly our mids won't look so knackered, Heeney won't need to spend so much time forward. If Grundy and Melican can find form and return from injury Mills won't be needed in defence and Allir can be more attacking.

But it's never one single reason. To counter my argument about rucks, Collingwood are going ok, Grundy is right up their for hit outs, but their clearance numbers are shocking. They must be doing other things well to make up for it.

We kick accurately for goal against Melbourne early and we win. Surely our game plan is to kick accurately, especially after a short break.
We get a decent run from the umps against Adelaide and we win. Yes, we have to factor in those uncontrollables but that was ridiculous.
We field kick accurately against Richmond and we win. Our game plan surely involves not turning the ball over.

None of these are the same. And none of them are issues of game plan. Some are experience. Some are form. Some even might be personnel management. But no coach has ever coached a half back to chip 20m sideways when there's a loose option at centre half forward.

At least i'm consistent , seen it coming since the GF of 16.

 

[The King!]

If Longmire gets the arse the best thread will die...would be a shame

Need the Tippett thread back

 

[Kirkswan]

Understand your sentiment mate.

We're all here supporting the club one way or another.

Some like to keep on the optimistic side while others are pessamists. Noone is right or wrong. We can all support the side however we see fit.

If a poster wants to shut the whole club down & start again as the Northern Beaches Sparrows then that is their opinion... They have every right to have it & express it here. In their mind they are trying to do what they think is best for the club. Who says they aren't any better/worst a supporter than the next poster?!

Likewise, if you feel they are overreacting then you can suggest that & the reasons why... telling them they aren't "real" supporters or how/what they post is "wrong" (how can an opinion be wrong?!) is something none of us want to see.

Of course there are posters who are upset, angry, frustrated & disillusioned. Just as there are supporters who are positive, optomistic & perhaps have those rose-coloured glasses you mentioned.

Neither are right or wrong.

We love this club & we all want success. One way or the other. Discuss. Debate. Listen. Learn. Dispute. Comment... Engage constructively & you will be rewarded. Attack posters & their "worth" & you will be dealt the same in all likelihood (& in the process continue the same back & forth attacks you have picked up on as displeasurable).

GotTheGoodes, I like you and respect you, but you just remember this post next time someone calls me a 'bleeding heart' or one of the other derogative group names they have got going for those of us that disagree with them. I'll be watching for you or one of the others to pull them up publicly.

 

[The King!]

GotTheGoodes, I like you and respect you, but you just remember this post next time someone calls me a 'bleeding heart' or one of the other derogative group names they have got going for those of us that disagree with them. I'll be watching for you or one of the others to pull them up publicly.

Or dogs, bad supporters , spoiled. Negative etc etc?

 

[Kirkswan]

I think we should relocate and become the north beaches sparrows

Sorry, but its Northern Beaches Sparrows, not North... very important for hash tags!

 

[Kirkswan]

Or dogs, bad supporters , spoiled. Negative etc etc?

Who called you a dog or a bad supporter? I'm sure your wife will agree that you can be a tad spoiled and/or negative, but you don't generally call people names.

Hmmm... this all sounds familiar! Haven't we already had this conversation?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Sorry, but its Northern Beaches Sparrows, not North... very important for hash tags!

Why not Northern Beaches StarLings.

 

[Kirkswan]

Why not Northern Beaches StarLings.

Very clever! But really, anything you like just not North...

 

[The King!]

Who called you a dog or a bad supporter? I'm sure your wife will agree that you can be a tad spoiled and/or negative, but you don't generally call people names.

Hmmm... this all sounds familiar! Haven't we already had this conversation?

Just saying there’s been a shitload of insults from people who perceive others as negative

My wife says I’m too one eyed swan

 

[Kirkswan]

Just saying there’s been a shitload of insults from people who perceive others as negative

My wife says I’m too one eyed swan

All I was really saying is that he pulled one post out of the pack and took it to task.

Very true about the negative insults, but this is what happens when you try to bridge the generation gap with a common denominator. Each generation expresses itself differently, and is offended by the traits of the next or the last... Just how it goes. Doesn't mean that I will put up with being called names though...

So, do you think we can blame Johns rapidly receding hairline on the losing streak at the SCG?

 

[The King!]

All I was really saying is that he pulled one post out of the pack and took it to task.

Very true about the negative insults, but this is what happens when you try to bridge the generation gap with a common denominator. Each generation expresses itself differently, and is offended by the traits of the next or the last... Just how it goes. Doesn't mean that I will put up with being called names though...

So, do you think we can blame Johns rapidly receding hairline on the losing streak at the SCG?

I think Johns been in the job past the period of time anyone can’t expect much

Either he goes or you shake things up. Put a footy manager in, change assistants, whatever, just strong fresh ideas, change Johns role if he is staying

 

[The Gong]

If Longmire gets the arse the best thread will die...would be a shame

Need the Tippett thread back

Tippett to replace Longmire. Confirmed.

 

[The Gong]

I think Johns been in the job past the period of time anyone can’t expect much

Either he goes or you shake things up. Put a footy manager in, change assistants, whatever, just strong fresh ideas, change Johns role if he is staying

That old classic...."Director of Coaching"

 

[RW]

Tippett to replace Longmire. Confirmed.

Reported.

 

[The King!]

That old classic...."Director of Coaching"

Get blame he seems lucky

 

[Kirkswan]

I think Johns been in the job past the period of time anyone can’t expect much

Either he goes or you shake things up. Put a footy manager in, change assistants, whatever, just strong fresh ideas, change Johns role if he is staying

What does any of that have to do with his hairline? I was looking for common ground here...

 

[The King!]

What does any of that have to do with his hairline? I was looking for common ground here...

I dunno,

ill tell you one thing we might agree on

Longmires 2012 coaching was more entertaining than 2005 Roos swans

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Horse is not balding. It is erosion from smacking his noggin on game day.

 

[The King!]

Why do they call him horse

 

[Mick Oxlong]

If Longmire gets the arse the best thread will die...would be a shame

Need the Tippett thread back

He’s still on the list, we could talk about Tom Mitchell in there?

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Who called you a dog or a bad supporter? I'm sure your wife will agree that you can be a tad spoiled and/or negative, but you don't generally call people names.

Hmmm... this all sounds familiar! Haven't we already had this conversation?

It’s been dealt with by mods

 

[Wolfgang West]

Excuse me you're not allowed to speak logic on here. Coaches are Gods! They control everything, and doesn't matter if they're the most successful of those Gods, if they can't make finals in any given year they must be culled for 'not adjusting to the times'. They are also allowed to go from shit coaches over mnay years to 'geniuses' within a single year! It has nothing to do with the players out there, you can put our grandmothers out there, a good coach will win them the game! We need Brad Scott! a change of direction will give us immediate success!

What 99% of this board and supporters in general prove with their simplistic logic, is exactly why only 1% of the population are the only ones actually capable of coaching. It is the difference between the rubbish logic of someone behind a keyboard, vs someone who has experienced the game and is actually doing it.

As someone who has played football at a decent level, i can tell you that the second the ball is in a players hands, the last thing on their mind is what the coach wants. The coach has shit all to do with game day. The only area they have a big affect on is morale and motivation. If players have shit skills and lack natural footy smarts, then the team is a write off. Other than Clarkson, not a single coach in past 2 decades has more credibility than Horse. So if you want him out for a russian roulette roll of the dice on an untried coach, then i'm sorry but you're cooked. Then again Hawthorn aren't doing too well now, Clarko must be a shit coach aswell then aye.

What's a decent level ?