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Heath Black

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I'm not as big a fan of Barry Brooks as some of our other supporters but as Savatage said there is no chance of the club entertaining such a lopsided trade for a player we gave so much up for. He'll be given plenty of time to develop. The club have already said that we will boosting our ruck stocks and at the moment we only have Knobel and Brooks. Even if Simmonds does come to the club that would still only leave us with 3 specialised ruckman which isn't a lot.

First round pick or go away.
 
sainter said:
I'm not as big a fan of Barry Brooks as some of our other supporters but as Savatage said there is no chance of the club entertaining such a lopsided trade for a player we gave so much up for. He'll be given plenty of time to develop. The club have already said that we will boosting our ruck stocks and at the moment we only have Knobel and Brooks. Even if Simmonds does come to the club that would still only leave us with 3 specialised ruckman which isn't a lot.

First round pick or go away.
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1st round pick - ...idiot

Freo don't want any picks, got enough young players....midfielders are a dime a dozen, whilst quality tall men who can actually mark are a needle in a hay stack.
 
Plugga said:
1st round pick - ...idiot

Freo don't want any picks, got enough young players....midfielders are a dime a dozen, whilst quality tall men who can actually mark are a needle in a hay stack.
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Well you don't get Heath Black, simple & goodbye.

Sainter is a top bloke I might add, so relax on the abuse.
 

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Savatage said:
Well you don't get Heath Black, simple & goodbye.

Sainter is a top bloke I might add, so relax on the abuse.
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Heath Black is in Perth now & will stay.....

"Idiot" was harsh...

....but a 1st round pick, will not get this deal done....u guys have salary cap issues, & Heath is on a truckload, unless he cuts his pay by half...c u later heath
 
Plugga said:
Heath Black is in Perth now & will stay.....

"Idiot" was harsh...

....but a 1st round pick, will not get this deal done....u guys have salary cap issues, & Heath is on a truckload, unless he cuts his pay by half...c u later heath
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I'm sorry but if you expect St.Kilda to just bend over & allow Fremantle to take Heath Black for less than he's worth, then you've got another thing coming!
 
Savatage said:
I'm sorry but if you expect St.Kilda to just bend over & allow Fremantle to take Heath Black for less than he's worth, then you've got another thing coming!
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Well if he's not contracted & Saints don't do a deal, he'll end up at Richmond for nothing.....wish is why he'll be in purple next season!
 
Plugga said:
Well if he's not contracted & Saints don't do a deal, he'll end up at Richmond for nothing.....wish is why he'll be in purple next season!
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He loves the St.Kilda football club, that's the thing you don't seem to understand- therefore if there's a situation where Fremantle cannot satisfy St.Kilda, Heath Black won't be going anywhere.
 
Savatage said:
He loves the St.Kilda football club, that's the thing you don't seem to understand- .
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Only just joining in here (second round) and not going to "get involved"... but I think you also need to understand that he has a genuine love of the FFC too, so that will be in his mind also in all of this.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay as a Saint if the right deal can not be done. If he leaves it will be for Freo, can't see him ending up a Tiger for the sake of
a. couldn't agree on a trade,
or
b. could't agree to terms for a new deal
 
ImperialPurple said:
Only just joining in here (second round) and not going to "get involved"... but I think you also need to understand that he has a genuine love of the FFC too, so that will be in his mind also in all of this.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay as a Saint if the right deal can not be done. If he leaves it will be for Freo, can't see him ending up a Tiger for the sake of
a. couldn't agree on a trade,
or
b. could't agree to terms for a new deal
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Plugger doesn't seem to understand that concept.

It's simple, HB loves both clubs & IF he's requested a trade, then it will have to be a fair arrangement for both clubs. Plugger tends to think that all we need to do is bend over & accept whatever insulting deal he comes up with. The fact remains if HB wants to go to Freo, if Freo wants HB, then there's going to have to be a deal to suit both parties. I'm not sure why this is a 3 page long thread, obviously you understand the concept Imperial- which is good to see!
 
Savatage said:
Plugger doesn't seem to understand that concept.

It's simple, HB loves both clubs & IF he's requested a trade, then it will have to be a fair arrangement for both clubs. Plugger tends to think that all we need to do is bend over & accept whatever insulting deal he comes up with. The fact remains if HB wants to go to Freo, if Freo wants HB, then there's going to have to be a deal to suit both parties. I'm not sure why this is a 3 page long thread, obviously you understand the concept Imperial- which is good to see!
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So it can't be a possibility that the saints may be never the salary cap limit and might off load Black cheaply?

Sounds more than plausible to me. Your team will need massive salary restructuring for it to stay together for the next 4-5 years.

It is possible there will be some casualities from this.
 
raffrox said:
So it can't be a possibility that the saints may be never the salary cap limit and might off load Black cheaply?

Sounds more than plausible to me. Your team will need massive salary restructuring for it to stay together for the next 4-5 years.

It is possible there will be some casualities from this.
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We're not arguing about salary caps (which ours is being VERY well managed might I add). The point is simple, to get Heath Black to Fremantle - our two clubs will have to nut out a deal fair for each other. If you think you won't be trading a good player back to us in exchange for him, you are dreaming.
 
For some reason they wont understand we wont let go of heath UNLESS we get the best possible thing for our club. The Saints would now care about Fremantle but only themselves, i say a 1st round pick is in order or even Haselby
 

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Savatage said:
Yeah, no chance of a player like Haselby & what would be the point.

You get what I'm saying don't you Imperial though?
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Yeah I do, definitely. Was just thinking that neither club is really in a position to "bend the other over" really - and in this day and age I think clubs try to do what is fair anyway, while still trying to do the best for themselves in the process (if that makes sense). No-one really tries to screw anyone anymore (although Sheedy always manages to do it somehow... ;) ).

IF Heath still wants to come back to Freo, which AFAIK, he hasn't actually said so as yet, then I imagine that the clubs will try their best to do a deal that suits. I wouldn't have a clue what Freo would offer (we all think that 90% of our lists are required), but I would think it would have to be more than the 2nd rounder that was going to be the dela last year. If a deal can't be done by the end of trade week, Heath will have to decide whther he's going to walk out on the Saints and end up at Richmond or Hawthorn, or negotiate a contract that will see him stay a Saint - probably on less $$. You would think that he would almost undoubtedly choose that option!
 
ImperialPurple said:
Yeah I do, definitely. Was just thinking that neither club is really in a position to "bend the other over" really - and in this day and age I think clubs try to do what is fair anyway, while still trying to do the best for themselves in the process (if that makes sense). No-one really tries to screw anyone anymore (although Sheedy always manages to do it somehow... ;) ).

IF Heath still wants to come back to Freo, which AFAIK, he hasn't actually said so as yet, then I imagine that the clubs will try their best to do a deal that suits. I wouldn't have a clue what Freo would offer (we all think that 90% of our lists are required), but I would think it would have to be more than the 2nd rounder that was going to be the dela last year. If a deal can't be done by the end of trade week, Heath will have to decide whther he's going to walk out on the Saints and end up at Richmond or Hawthorn, or negotiate a contract that will see him stay a Saint - probably on less $$. You would think that he would almost undoubtedly choose that option!
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100% spot on in every way. A fair arrangement for both clubs is no doubt the way it will have to be, otherwise no deal will be done.
 
ImperialPurple said:
Yeah I do, definitely. Was just thinking that neither club is really in a position to "bend the other over" really - and in this day and age I think clubs try to do what is fair anyway, while still trying to do the best for themselves in the process (if that makes sense). No-one really tries to screw anyone anymore (although Sheedy always manages to do it somehow... ;) ).

IF Heath still wants to come back to Freo, which AFAIK, he hasn't actually said so as yet, then I imagine that the clubs will try their best to do a deal that suits. I wouldn't have a clue what Freo would offer (we all think that 90% of our lists are required), but I would think it would have to be more than the 2nd rounder that was going to be the dela last year. If a deal can't be done by the end of trade week, Heath will have to decide whther he's going to walk out on the Saints and end up at Richmond or Hawthorn, or negotiate a contract that will see him stay a Saint - probably on less $$. You would think that he would almost undoubtedly choose that option!
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Brilliantly and accurately summed up IP....and that should be the end of the discussion until the real story unfolds next week.
 
Plugga said:
1st round pick - ...idiot

Freo don't want any picks, got enough young players....midfielders are a dime a dozen, whilst quality tall men who can actually mark are a needle in a hay stack.
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All I was saying was that given we gave up selections #8 and #35 to get Brooks to the club we would have no interest in letting him go cheaply unless a club was to foolishly offer something like a first round pick. I wasn't suggesting Freo should do that. We've shown a lot of faith in Brooks and we'll be keen to give him another season or two to show his wares.
 

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ImperialPurple said:
Yeah I do, definitely. Was just thinking that neither club is really in a position to "bend the other over" really - and in this day and age I think clubs try to do what is fair anyway, while still trying to do the best for themselves in the process (if that makes sense). No-one really tries to screw anyone anymore (although Sheedy always manages to do it somehow... ;) ).

IF Heath still wants to come back to Freo, which AFAIK, he hasn't actually said so as yet, then I imagine that the clubs will try their best to do a deal that suits. I wouldn't have a clue what Freo would offer (we all think that 90% of our lists are required), but I would think it would have to be more than the 2nd rounder that was going to be the dela last year. If a deal can't be done by the end of trade week, Heath will have to decide whther he's going to walk out on the Saints and end up at Richmond or Hawthorn, or negotiate a contract that will see him stay a Saint - probably on less $$. You would think that he would almost undoubtedly choose that option!
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Well said

I really think it will come down to where he and his partner want to live. We do require him to take a pay cut but I couldn't see him walking out over financial arrangments. From all reports his partner seems to be much more settled in Melbourne than she was at this time last year but a failure to move back to WA now would mean that they would be committed to staying in Melbourne until at least the end of the 2006 season. Therefore you can pretty much say that a move back to WA is either going to take place now or never (Freo would be unlikely to try and get him back a third time when his next contract expires).

The way Heath stepped up to our leadership group and taken it upon himself to do more has won him a lot of respect and if he does decide to leave I don't think there will be a lot of acrimony involved. Because of that I couldn't see the club forcing him into the draft and ending up at another Victorian club but at the same time it will require a bit of goodwill from both the Saints and Dockers.
 
sainter said:
Well said

I really think it will come down to where he and his partner want to live. We do require him to take a pay cut but I couldn't see him walking out over financial arrangments. From all reports his partner seems to be much more settled in Melbourne than she was at this time last year but a failure to move back to WA now would mean that they would be committed to staying in Melbourne until at least the end of the 2006 season. Therefore you can pretty much say that a move back to WA is either going to take place now or never (Freo would be unlikely to try and get him back a third time when his next contract expires).

The way Heath stepped up to our leadership group and taken it upon himself to do more has won him a lot of respect and if he does decide to leave I don't think there will be a lot of acrimony involved. Because of that I couldn't see the club forcing him into the draft and ending up at another Victorian club but at the same time it will require a bit of goodwill from both the Saints and Dockers.
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Agree, it's pretty much now or never. He's also entering his 8th season next year, so in another 2 years he'll be entering "veteran" status, so if it doesn't happen now it won't happen.
I'd love to see him back at Freo - without doubt at our B&F tonight he and Schwabby and CC would have had an "off the record chat" about possibilities for next year, so you'd think that an announcement will come over the weekend if he does want to come back.
Also, as supporters we can only speculate on salary cap issues, player movements and all that stuff, but I would guess that younger guys like Ball, Dal Santo, etc would be higher priorities for you guys for your midfield, and of course your awesome young KPPs, so that if someone has to go, then Blacky might be the one. It may be that something less than his "real worth" will be enough to satisfy your powers that be... or maybe not. They might think - well he wants to go, we don't have to force anyone out, it eases the TPP for us; or they may say, nah bugger it, he's a good player worth "x" and we won't take anything less. Who knows. Us lot can only make guesses from where we sit!!
Cheers. :)
 
I like the idea of a clean trade of Simmonds for Heath. As much as i like heath black i think Simmonds could do big things at our club. We have one of the strongest Midfields in the league and we have more players coming into that group ie Leigh Montagna and Raphael Clarke
 
i dont like simmonds. i honestly wouldnt like him. i would prefer heath black. Anyone see the paper today? in melbourne (herald sun) heath black said to grant thomas he wants to stay at st.kilda.
 

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