Roast Hislop = Wasted Pick

[Cathal Brugha]

Can you tell us when he was last fully fit when at Richmond?

His pre-patella issue days. And keep in mind GOOD footballers can carry form and injury. Most, as I'm sure you are aware, go into games with one chronic injury or another.

 

[CoggaRules]

The only accountability they have is on Board and Club level, they don't need to justify a rookie selection to a supporter or member, people in the club don't purposely try to make decisions to ruin the club.

So once again I will ask, who do you think you are that the club needs to be accountable for a rookie selection?

As far as I'm concerned you're a nobody sitting behind a desk taking potshots directly at the people in charge trying to bring this once great club off it's knees and to deliver it's 11th premiership and then some.

Also if you think you're so much better then the people in charge making the decisions then by all means lodge in your resume for head recruiting officer instead of making hindsight calls from the desk.

Because as we all know it's easier to criticize a decision made then it is to make a decision of your own.

EDIT: Ok I just saw your edited post and I will answer the last part.

As I answered last time if judging solely on past performances then the obvious thing to say is no, however he has never had a full preseason and has been injured for the most part of his career.

So if the Club thinks that he can improve his game by having a full preseason without injuries and can keep improving then I see no problem with the pick.

Also I would like to know what you think of Luke Ball, Premiership player with the Pies who was recruited for the sole purpose of being a pure extractor.

I will list some of Luke Balls deficiencies that I think are in his game.

Downside:

Can't kick
Slow
Injury Prone
Kicking Distance of about 35-40 Meters

Upside:

Can win a hardball
Clearance machine

another delusional comparison...dude..you need to understand that if we were the current flag holders we could carry 2 Hislops..and a Lounder to boot.
We are not within cooee of that..Ball was recruited for the upsides you suggest...nothing more and nothing less..to fill a requirement in the quest for the target..the flag.
We are not in the hunt for a flag, we are in the hunt for a list that can put us in a position to be able to recruit a Ball or a Jolly or a Brown when that is what we need to win the ****ing thing.

 

[MightyTiger]

another delusional comparison...dude..you need to understand that if we were the current flag holders we could carry 2 Hislops..and a Lounder to boot.
We are not within cooee of that..Ball was recruited for the upsides you suggest...nothing more and nothing less..to fill a requirement in the quest for the target..the flag.
We are not in the hunt for a flag, we are in the hunt for a list that can put us in a position to be able to recruit a Ball or a Jolly or a Brown when that is what we need to win the ****ing thing.

I know our position is totally different to Collingwoods, however in the same way they recruited Ball because of his upside you can't deny the fact that his downside also inhibits the team as a whole.

I would rather have Hislop/Tuck and Grigg doing all the in and under work feeding the ball out to the likes of Cotchin, Martin, Foley Conca and so on, no team has 22 star players who have no flaws, every player has flaws.

 

[CoggaRules]

I know our position is totally different to Collingwoods, however in the same way they recruited Ball because of his upside you can't deny the fact that his downside also inhibits the team as a whole.

I would rather have Hislop/Tuck and Grigg doing all the in and under work feeding the ball out to the likes of Cotchin, Martin, Foley Conca and so on, no team has 22 star players who have no flaws, every player has flaws.

so now you are putting Hislop and Tuck in the Ball dept? is that correct?
Ball's downside meant nothing to the pies it was all about what they needed..not to mention that from what i saw over the year and in the big ones..he was more of a link man anyway...and when it came to clearances anyone who was on the spot took that role...
FWIW if Grigg isnt a ruckman and he is an extractor, then our A team in my book for that kind of stuff should consist of Cotchin, Martin and Grigg, with Tuck offering breathers when required..Cotchin in particular needs to be in and under..if fit and stronger, his sense of where it should get to and how to get it there is deisel like..
If our engine room comes down to Hislop Tuck and Grigg then you can put your house on us finishing in the bottom 3.

 

[MightyTiger]

so now you are putting Hislop and Tuck in the Ball dept? is that correct?
Ball's downside meant nothing to the pies it was all about what they needed..not to mention that from what i saw over the year and in the big ones..he was more of a link man anyway...and when it came to clearances anyone who was on the spot took that role...
FWIW if Grigg isnt a ruckman and he is an extractor, then our A team in my book for that kind of stuff should consist of Cotchin, Martin and Grigg, with Tuck offering breathers when required..Cotchin in particular needs to be in and under..if fit and stronger, his sense of where it should get to and how to get it there is deisel like..
If our engine room comes down to Hislop Tuck and Grigg then you can put your house on us finishing in the bottom 3.

So it's ok for the Pies to target needs but we can't somehow?

Tuck, Hislop and Ball are all basically the same players, all 3 cant kick and are slow, but they all do the same thing well, which is to extract the ball to the better uses of it.

IMO if Cotchin being used in the same role as Tuck then we would not be utilizing his strengths to the fullest, every club needs the players like Tuck, Hislop, Ball, Watson and so on these players release the better outside players to use the ball.

Perhaps lets just wait and see how his injuries turn out to see if he can overcome them and come into a season with a strong pre season without judging to much.

 

[CoggaRules]

So it's ok for the Pies to target needs but we can't somehow?

Tuck, Hislop and Ball are all basically the same players, all 3 cant kick and are slow, but they all do the same thing well, which is to extract the ball to the better uses of it.

IMO if Cotchin being used in the same role as Tuck then we would not be utilizing his strengths to the fullest, every club needs the players like Tuck, Hislop, Ball, Watson and so on these players release the better outside players to use the ball.

Perhaps lets just wait and see how his injuries turn out to see if he can overcome them and come into a season with a strong pre season without judging to much.

I am waiting to see what unfolds before making forming any opinions on with the tigers..as i said in another thread, so far the brains trust has delivered on what they promoted to us, so, so far so good. We were shit, they kept telling us it will come together, it did with some bloody good footy at last, then we died out as young lists do..
DO we need to be reminded of the spin doctor and the shit we were being fed for 5 years and the shit we were watching for those 5 years?
Having said that, the Hislop desicion is kinda baffling to say the least, from where i sit and my opinion of his ability at this level. But its a rookie spot..its not the end of the world.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

I am waiting to see what unfolds before making forming any opinions on with the tigers..as i said in another thread, so far the brains trust has delivered on what they promoted to us, so, so far so good. We were shit, they kept telling us it will come together, it did with some bloody good footy at last, then we died out as young lists do..
DO we need to be reminded of the spin doctor and the shit we were being fed for 5 years and the shit we were watching for those 5 years?
Having said that, the Hislop desicion is kinda baffling to say the least, from where i sit and my opinion of his ability at this level. But its a rookie spot..its not the end of the world.

Could this be a message to the playing group about loyalty from the club (i.e. moving Hislop to the rookie list rather than discarding him)?

Come free agency the club has demonstrated loyalty to the playing group to engender that loyalty reciprocated.

 

[CoggaRules]

Could this be a message to the playing group about loyalty from the club (i.e. moving Hislop to the rookie list rather than discarding him)?

Come free agency the club has demonstrated loyalty to the playing group to engender that loyalty reciprocated.

give you the tip dude, when free agency comes then loyalty is toast....$$$$ will rule, the end,

 

[santa claws]

So it's ok for the Pies to target needs but we can't somehow?

Tuck, Hislop and Ball are all basically the same players, all 3 cant kick and are slow, but they all do the same thing well, which is to extract the ball to the better uses of it.

IMO if Cotchin being used in the same role as Tuck then we would not be utilizing his strengths to the fullest, every club needs the players like Tuck, Hislop, Ball, Watson and so on these players release the better outside players to use the ball.

Perhaps lets just wait and see how his injuries turn out to see if he can overcome them and come into a season with a strong pre season without judging to much.

so why didnt the pies go get tuck who was available and hislop who was delisted for nix.
the simple answer to that is collingwood like most supporters who use just a bit of common sense with a lack of bias, rated ball a far better player.

imo cogga is right we have no need to chase after 26 yr olds. build the list first thru the draft and youth. giving up decent picks for blokes around balls age is what we have always done. in the past blokes like ball have got us to 9th because we have failed to put the right building blocks in place first.
ffs get into a position where we can at least make the bloody 8 first then fill in the pieces with the balls of this world. un fortunately this takes patience.
by the time we are in a position to challenge luke balls best will be well behind him.

for the moment we keep our decent picks build a list and if we lack things like experience we do what we have been doing the last 2 drafts we take experienced players who cost little maintaining our nd picks and thus catering to the long term rather than foregoing it.
yep it is okay for collingwood to target needs with much older players and early picks us well we need to target players just a bit younger. surely you have learnt this lesson over the yrs.

again on hislop 4 yrs for a medium sized player is ample time to make a decision on. his 4 yrs at 2 clubs to put it in a positive light have been underwhelming regardless of injuries. just how long do we persevere with chronic weakness and lack of performance. geez sometimes i wonder if they have learnt anything at that club. i wonder do we have some sort of scale or process in place where performance and weakness is measured.
one thing for sure without dramatic improvement this will or should be hislops last. the thing is one has to ask can he overcome his weaknesses. kicking and pace well i doubt it. perhaps if he can build a motor there might be a slim chance. i dont think anyone can argue one of the major problems at the club has been our inability to turn over underperforming players quickly enough.

 

[MightyTiger]

so why didnt the pies go get tuck who was available and hislop who was delisted for nix.
the simple answer to that is collingwood like most supporters who use just a bit of common sense with a lack of bias, rated ball a far better player.

imo cogga is right we have no need to chase after 26 yr olds. build the list first thru the draft and youth. giving up decent picks for blokes around balls age is what we have always done. in the past blokes like ball have got us to 9th because we have failed to put the right building blocks in place first.
ffs get into a position where we can at least make the bloody 8 first then fill in the pieces with the balls of this world. un fortunately this takes patience.
by the time we are in a position to challenge luke balls best will be well behind him.

for the moment we keep our decent picks build a list and if we lack things like experience we do what we have been doing the last 2 drafts we take experienced players who cost little maintaining our nd picks and thus catering to the long term rather than foregoing it.
yep it is okay for collingwood to target needs with much older players and early picks us well we need to target players just a bit younger. surely you have learnt this lesson over the yrs.

again on hislop 4 yrs for a medium sized player is ample time to make a decision on. his 4 yrs at 2 clubs to put it in a positive light have been underwhelming regardless of injuries. just how long do we persevere with chronic weakness and lack of performance. geez sometimes i wonder if they have learnt anything at that club. i wonder do we have some sort of scale or process in place where performance and weakness is measured.
one thing for sure without dramatic improvement this will or should be hislops last. the thing is one has to ask can he overcome his weaknesses. kicking and pace well i doubt it. perhaps if he can build a motor there might be a slim chance. i dont think anyone can argue one of the major problems at the club has been our inability to turn over underperforming players quickly enough.

Ok so I didn't read the whole thing as it just looked like your usual stuff, however I think you have missed my point, in no way was I saying we need to go after a player of balls age and give up quality draft picks what I was saying that all 3 players I mentioned are pretty much the same player.

They can't kick and are slow, but there one main attribute that they all excel at is clearances, Hislop is yet to be proven at AFL level but as a junior that's what he excelled at.

Once again I'm not advocating going out and using pick30 on a ready made player like Ball, what I was saying is that we have our own younger version of him in Hislop, and if he can get his injuries right then just maybe he can play some ok footy and play a team role.

Also I'm pretty sure the reason why Collingwood didn't pick up Tuck was because at the time we put him up for trade they had already committed to Ball and were going to pick him up in the ND.