Holdin' the ball

[Mr Ripper]

Has it been deleted from the rule book without anyone telling us?

Come to think of it, I reckon whilst the umpys have been paying more holding-the-mans, every other rule's gone out the window!


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Olmy knows best

 

[eagleskickass]

It's getting bloudy ridiculous. All that needed to happen before was the holding the mans being payed more often. Its gone from one extreme to the other and as you said, holding the balls gone out the window. Players can run up and down the field being tackled and not get pinged.

 

[Frodo]

Mr. Ripper, how dare you criticise the umpiring

 

[Bob_vic]

I lost count how many times a player blantently dropped the ball, without attempting to kick or handball, right in front to the umpire. It's unbelievable.

Bob

 

[Mr Ripper]

Frodo once again defended the evil forces of conservatism:
Mr. Ripper, how dare you criticise the umpiring

It's what I do best, Frodo!

Btw, I'm glad you said umpiring rather than umpires, as it's the umpiring department as a whole I have problems coming to terms with, rather than the maggots individually.

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Olmy knows best

 

[Phil Doyle]

Spot on. These interpretations by the Umpies are leading to a scrappy style of play. I watched the melbourne - Richmond game and even the Essendon South game tonight was another example.
On top of this the players seem to get a lot of latitude when running with the ball it seems.

Phil

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Remonstrating with the goal umpire

 

[oh_my_hat]

The umpiring is awful. We are only 3 weeks into the season and the focus on holding on in marking contests and jumpers being held has been relaxed, bloody typical.

Also in tonight's game McKernan was disgracefully penalised in a centre square ball up against A. Rocca when Rocca was the infringing player and to make it worse a 50 metre penalty was dished out tofcourse Rocca kicked the goal. BLOODY AWFUL!! I hope it picks up soon.

 

[Bob_vic]

Originally posted by oh_my_hat:
The umpiring is awful. We are only 3 weeks into the season and the focus on holding on in marking contests and jumpers being held has been relaxed, bloody typical.

Also in tonight's game McKernan was disgracefully penalised in a centre square ball up against A. Rocca when Rocca was the infringing player and to make it worse a 50 metre penalty was dished out tofcourse Rocca kicked the goal. BLOODY AWFUL!! I hope it picks up soon.

If you're talking about the same decision, that was another absolute shocker by Hayden Kennedy. I don't believe it should have been a free kick to North though, it should've been play on. McKernan was only tring to protect himself and he paid pushing against him.

Bob

 

[oh_my_hat]

That right Bob. It should have been play on but if a free kick was going to be awarded then McKernan should have received it.

I'm sure most of these umpires have never played the game and don't have a 'feel' for what is going on.

 

[Guest]

Geez what are the umpies doing, the holding the ball rule has got to be the easiest decision to make on the field.

Player takes possesion of the ball gets tackled and doesn't dispose of it properly...........free kick!

How more simple can it get.

 

[Bob_vic]

Actually it's not as simple as that. Here's the holding the ball rule in it's entirity. (1 1/3 pages long!!!!!) Then you'll see it's not as easy as that.

In response to the earlier post, most umpires have played he game. I know I have.

Bob

15.2.3 Holding the Football – Prior Opportunity/No Prior Opportunity


Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession of the football:


(a) has had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if the Player does not Kick or Handball the football immediately when he or she is Correctly Tackled; or


(b) has not had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if, upon being Correctly Tackled, the Player does not Correctly Dispose or attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football after being given a reasonable opportunity to do so.


15.2.4 Application – Specific instances where play shall continue


For the avoidance of doubt, the field Umpire shall allow play to continue when:-


(a) a Player is bumped and the football falls from the Player’s hands;


(b) a Player’s arm is knocked which causes the Player to lose possession of the football;


(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to his or her side by an opponent which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3(a) shall apply;


(d) a Player, whilst in the act of Kicking or Handballing, is swung off balance and does not make contact with the football by either foot or hand, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3(a) shall apply; or


(e) a Player is pulled or swung by one arm which causes the football to fall from the Player’s hands, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3(a) shall apply.


15.2.5 Diving on Top of the Football


Where a Player is in possession of the football by reason of diving on top of or dragging the football underneath his or her body, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if he or she does not immediately knock the football clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Correctly Tackled.


15.2.6 Football held to the body of a Player


The field Umpire shall bounce the football when a Player, in the act of applying a Correct Tackle, holds the football to the body of the Player being Tackled or the football is otherwise pinned to the ground, unless the Player being Tackled has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3(a) shall apply.

then you have...

15.2 Free Kicks Relating to Possession of the Football


15.2.1 In Possession of the Football


A Player is in possession of the football if, in the opinion of the field Umpire:-

the Player is holding or otherwise has control of the football;


the Player is in the act of bouncing the football; or


the Player dives or lies on top of or drags the football underneath his or her body.

and....

15.3 Free Kicks Relating to Disposal of the Football


15.3.1 Correct Disposal


A Player Correctly disposes of the football if he or she Kicks or Handballs the football.

then, the spirit of the law that the umpires use...

Spirit of the Law: Tackling (Player in Possession of the Ball)

"The player who has possession of the ball and is held by an opponent shall be given a reasonable time to kick or handball the ball."

All illegal tackles are to penalised.

Legal tackle or bump causes dispossession – play on.

A player forfeits the benefits afforded by the spirit of the law if he:

Elects to dive on the ball, or when on the ground, elects to drag the ball in, and he is tackled legally.

Bounces the ball prior to being tackled.

Has had prior opportunity to dispose of the ball before being tackled. In such cases the player in possession is penalised if he fails to legally dispose of the ball by either kick or handball.

Not quite so easy, is it now.

 

[Bob_vic]

Oh yeah, and there's more.

15.4 Free Kick –Permitted and Prohibited Physical Contact


15.4.1 Correct Tackle or Correctly Tackled


(a) For the purposes of these Laws, a Player executes a tackle correctly if:-

the Player being held is in possession of the ball; and

(ii) that Player is held (either by the body or playing uniform) below the shoulders and above the knees.


(b) For the avoidance of doubt, a tackle may be executed correctly by holding a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from behind is not pushed in the back.

and..

1.1 Definitions

Unless the context requires otherwise, the following terms shall have the following meanings:

Handball: the act of holding the football in one hand and disposing of the football by hitting it with the clenched fist of the other hand.

Kick or Kicking: in relation to disposing of the football, means making contact with the football with any part of the Player’s leg below the knee.
Correct Disposal or Correctly Dispose: disposing of the football in a manner permitted under Rule 15.3.1.


Correct Tackle or Correctly Tackled: the conduct permitted under 15.4.1.

Bob

LOL!!!!!!!

 

[RogerC]

I still reckon we have one umpire too many. With three running around, the pressure is on each one to pay frees "by the book" instead of interpreting as he sees it. In most cases two umpires are adjudicating the same decision, and the one who is closest to the textbook interpretation is the one who's going to cop the least flak from Geischen. This turns the umpires into controllers of the action, rather than facilitators.

The problem is that the game evolves very quickly as players and coaches learn how to "work" each new rule to their advantage, and textbooks evolve slowly. So by forcing umpires to work within a strict code, and by restricting the code so as to make the job of umpires more clear cut, there are going to be a lot more literal interpretations of rules, even though these go against the spirit and flow of the game. It also turns umpires into the equivalent of traffic cops.

We need to allow the umpires the freedom to interpret the rules to suit the style of game they are umpiring. A free-flowing game needs less umpire-intervention. A bogged down, rough house game needs more, to prevent the entire game consisting of rugby type scrums.

Going back to two umpires reduces the number by a third, thus allowing the dickheads to be culled from the list. It also allows an umpire to be the undisputed arbiter of his half of the ground. Less inconsistency from umpire to umpire has to be a good thing, too.

This is just a suggestion, but most people I know think the game is over umpired, and that the standard of umpiring has deteriorated. This would solve it.

 

[Bob_vic]

And there's still more!!!!

11.3 Bouncing the Football


11.3.1 Centre Square and Bouncing the Ball


The field Umpire shall bounce the football on the occasions and at the position on the Playing Surface as set out in the following table:-

When a Player, who has claimed to have taken a Mark which is not awarded by the field Umpire, is Correctly Tackled by an opponent, provided the field Umpire is of the opinion that the Player did not hear or see the field Umpire’s signal of "Touched Play On" or "Play On".

(Bounce at) Where the Player is Correctly Tackled.

Bob

P.S. Bear in mind every single one of these rules is relevant to paying holding the ball.

 

[Bob_vic]

Originally posted by RogerC:
Going back to two umpires reduces the number by a third, thus allowing the dickheads to be culled from the list.

I agree. At the lower levels, when the two umpire system is done properly, it works perfectly well and there is less inconsistancy. Also, against what you said, the 2 umpire system doesn't strictly involve just patrolling halves of the ground.

Personally, I like umpiring a game by myself, because I feel like I have more control of the game, but, we could never go back to this at AFL level before the umpire would never be able to keep up.

Bob

 

[Mr Ripper]

RogerC reckons:
We need to allow the umpires the freedom to interpret the rules to suit the style of game they are umpiring. A free-flowing game needs less umpire-intervention. A bogged down, rough house game needs more, to prevent the entire game consisting of rugby type scrums.

Three cheers for RogerC! Absolutely spot-on!!

I don't know if it is Giesch's (or Schwab's, or Levens') policy to umpire all games as if they're played under identical circumstances, but it certainly appears that way.

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Olmy knows best

 

[Bob_vic]

My policy, as stated earlier:

1. Pay all obvious free kicks.
2. Don't play soft free kicks.
3. Always protect the player, playing the ball first. In the case of holding the ball, refer to No.1.

Bob