Hong Kong protests

[medusala]

Doesn't get much coverage but this has been on low simmer for a number of years. There are also frequent allegations of mass protests on the mainland happening on a regular basis. The Chinese authorities seem to have been very patient so far re Hong Kong. Interesting to see what will happen from here.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/02/hong-kong-police-detain-hundreds-protest

Hong Kong police have arrested more than 500 protesters for illegally "occupying" a street in the city's central business district, hours after hundreds of thousands of residents gathered for the city's biggest pro-democracy demonstration in recent history.

On Sunday night, OCLP wrapped up an unofficial "referendum" in which nearly 800,000 people – more than 10% of Hong Kong's population – votesd. The vast majority of them requested the ability to choose their own top leader by a process of public nomination, a possibility which Beijing categorically rejects

 

[blackcat]

macau

 

[blackcat]

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Was onto this before travelling. Beijing has been slow on promised reforms and looks like going back on it's word. No surprises.

One wonders if one day we will see tanks on the streets of HK, before we see them on the streets of Taipei.

 

[blackcat]

medusala iteration deux F I L T H im a fan ov acronym

 

[medusala]

medusala iteration deux F I L T H im a fan ov acronym

FISSTA

Failed in Smith St try Armadale.

#Chasin Jason

 

[tandino]

Was onto this before travelling. Beijing has been slow on promised reforms and looks like going back on it's word. No surprises.

One wonders if one day we will see tanks on the streets of HK, before we see them on the streets of Taipei.

Status quo won't last until 2047, that much I am sure. Quite sad really. Hong Kong is a special place.

 

[blackcat]

Status quo won't last until 2047, that much I am sure. Quite sad really. Hong Kong is a special place.

christopher doyle

 

[Juddism]

Wouldn't be betting on Macau. I was there last week and it was very quiet, there are casinos everywhere but nothing else, no restaurants, nothing. It was very odd. Far different from when I was there a few years back.

 

[mottrain]

Think they see it as a big block to starting progression. Considering how different day to day things are in Hong Kong compared with China completely shows such relationship won't work. Think there'll be either independence from Hong Kong or otherwise a change in the stance of Beijing as already has been seen. I have heard first hand their views on China.

 

[blackcat]

Think they see it as a big block to starting progression. Considering how different day to day things are in Hong Kong compared with China completely shows such relationship won't work. Think there'll be either independence from Hong Kong or otherwise a change in the stance of Beijing as already has been seen. I have heard first hand their views on China.

China wont lose face. The best the Hongkers will hope for is status quo ante.

Wong Kar-Wai the Hong Kongese film auteur riffs on this in his 2042 trilogy.

 

[mottrain]

China wont lose face. The best the Hongkers will hope for is status quo ante.

Wong Kar-Wai the Hong Kongese film auteur riffs on this in his 2042 trilogy.

Correct exactly the likely outcome. One's kinda getting given the impression that they are already annoyed with what was about faced on by them in terms of direction and policies.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

A few observations about this, from a former resident.

HK people know how to protest. There is a very active and passionate student movement on the big campuses, and it won't go away any time soon.

A lot of the prodemocracy sentiment is mixed up with the rather less nice antimainlander sentiment, which is driven by the reality that HK is now the destination of choice for lower to middle class Chinese people who want to see a bit of the world but can't afford a visa to anywhere else. The result is rampant overcrowding any place touristy, and some very ugly cultural clashes which just fuels HK nationalism. I went back recently after six years away and was amazed how the demographics had changed and how openly bitter a lot of HK people were about it- what that means is that outside the idealists there are a lot of ordinary people who want proper autonomy to avoid getting swamped.

HK would be a nightmare to try and suppress in a tiananmen type sense, partly due to economics and partly due to geography. A lot of the multinationals would GTFO to Singapore (or ironically Shanghai) at the first sign of trouble, which would hammer the economy, causing mass unemployment and more unrest, and military force would be extraordinarily hard to deploy there, it's one of the steepest, most complicated, most three dimensional, most stupidly crowded first world cities in the world-with plenty of angry young people, violence would drag on forever.

I don't know how it will all pan out but for the Chinese government it's actually a really difficult problem to resolve. There best bet is to make token concessions and drag it out over a long period of time until the demographics change, because a strong hand would create a huge mess.

 

[mottrain]

A few observations about this, from a former resident.

HK people know how to protest. There is a very active and passionate student movement on the big campuses, and it won't go away any time soon.

A lot of the prodemocracy sentiment is mixed up with the rather less nice antimainlander sentiment, which is driven by the reality that HK is now the destination of choice for lower to middle class Chinese people who want to see a bit of the world but can't afford a visa to anywhere else. The result is rampant overcrowding any place touristy, and some very ugly cultural clashes which just fuels HK nationalism. I went back recently after six years away and was amazed how the demographics had changed and how openly bitter a lot of HK people were about it- what that means is that outside the idealists there are a lot of ordinary people who want proper autonomy to avoid getting swamped.

HK would be a nightmare to try and suppress in a tiananmen type sense, partly due to economics and partly due to geography. A lot of the multinationals would GTFO to Singapore (or ironically Shanghai) at the first sign of trouble, which would hammer the economy, causing mass unemployment and more unrest, and military force would be extraordinarily hard to deploy there, it's one of the steepest, most complicated, most three dimensional, most stupidly crowded first world cities in the world-with plenty of angry young people, violence would drag on forever.

I don't know how it will all pan out but for the Chinese government it's actually a really difficult problem to resolve. There best bet is to make token concessions and drag it out over a long period of time until the demographics change, because a strong hand would create a huge mess.

Saw the mainlander meltdowns in the airport where one of them spoke to the cashier in Chinese Madarin and not in Canto. The result was an almighty amazingly public outburst telling them to speak in English or Cantonese and a few other ont very nice comments as well also. Think the thing that you miss also how highly dependent they have become on HK for their own business and trade sense. Considering Guangdong is the top place for business and manufacturing and Hong Kong is the major main airport for west business people planning to visit to fly into, as well as the base for all the MNCs really doesn't do a lot of positives for China annoying that relationship.

 

[The Coup]

His joint is routinely empty in Macau. Worst Casino there by far and doesn't even allow smoking. In Macau! That's Portugal and China mixed, everyone smokes there.

 

[The Coup]

And to be fair a lot of the mainland Chinese in HK have some really poor hygeine and manners. It isn't about poverty alone though, you'll never see a Thai or Filipino hocking up loogies in the street or in a restaurant, but those Mandarin speakers just do not give a f. Massive cultural clash.

Even in Melbourne a lot of the Chinese that have been here for generations are starting to really resent the mainland middle class types that have come into the country in the past few years.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

This is really reaching genuine crisis proportions.

Some mad vision from around Connaught road tonight, with about 80000 people on the streets including 3000 secondary students, and what looks like fairly indiscriminate use of pepper spray and tear gas.

http://www.scmp.com/article/1603331...tudents-demand-cy-leungs-resignation#comments

I really worry how this is going to end, I get the feeling china is pushing its hk government puppets to take a more robust approach, the students have massive numbers behind them and genuinely believe it is now or never and there is potential for all kinds of showdowns as PRC coercion and government thuggery collides with the westminsterian institutions the poms left behind. the high court ordering the immediate release of the student leader being preemptively held without charge was a neat example of the two worlds colliding.

 

[The Coup]

number one rule of running a despotic regime is to never give people anything then take it away. You're better off keeping people under your boots until you're ready to bring them up to where you are comfortable.

China has an issue with HK, they are used to certain freedoms above and beyond that of standard chinese nationals. They can (accurately) see their unique way of life and culture being destroyed (the economic side is fine for now, of course) by the mainstream masses and they're cracking the shits about it. There's been a spate of acid attacks in recent years too.

Out of all the cities I've been to, a mass civil disobedience/riot in HK would have to be one of the most dangerous just from the layout of the city etc. You'd have some insane running battles through the streets, and if the cops really wanted to put the hurt on people it would get very nasty very quickly. The place would grind to a halt.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Out of all the cities I've been to, a mass civil disobedience/riot in HK would have to be one of the most dangerous just from the layout of the city etc. You'd have some insane running battles through the streets, and if the cops really wanted to put the hurt on people it would get very nasty very quickly. The place would grind to a halt.

Agree about this, it's something you can only appreciate if you've been there, it is ridiculously crowded, complicated and three dimensional, every road seems to have a flyover, an underpass, a six story shopping mall built on top of the underpass and a pedestrian bridge under the flyover, as long as the MTR is operating people can move from place to place super fast, and on the island, all those tiny, windy roads and back streets are impassable to anything APC sized.

 

[mottrain]

Agree about this, it's something you can only appreciate if you've been there, it is ridiculously crowded, complicated and three dimensional, every road seems to have a flyover, an underpass, a six story shopping mall built on top of the underpass and a pedestrian bridge under the flyover, as long as the MTR is operating people can move from place to place super fast, and on the island, all those tiny, windy roads and back streets are impassable to anything APC sized.

Iy is also amazingly rare. There has to be serious support for the non choosing of candidates for this to happen.

 

[szhengd]

HK Police have received a lot of criticism for the way the rather inept way they handled yesterdays protest, especially with the tear gassing of unarmed and essentially peaceful protestors. Really a lot of ill feeling towards them in HK towards them this morning. They have also annouced they are going to pull back from the protests, leaving them unpoliced.

I don't see China allowing this to contine for much longer, for fear that it may spread across the border into Shenzhen or Guangzhou, so lets see how the next 2 days play out in the lead up to national day

 

[The Coup]

Iy is also amazingly rare. There has to be serious support for the non choosing of candidates for this to happen.

Yes and no, there's a pretty significant counter cultural movement in HK. Its a global thing at this point, the younger generations are broadly sick of entrenched authority.

 

[LennyStarkiller]

As bad as it is I can't see China backing down. The Chinese government wouldn't want to be seen as weak to places they lay claim to or areas within China where there might be unrest and to Taiwan.

 

[peternorth]

watching coverage of this is extremely depressing and saddening. as a frequent traveler to the isle, i have on occasions felt a tear roll down my face.

will be back there in some 2 weeks, spending much time in central and wan chai, and i hope the protests can continue without any more issues.

i agree about culture clashes between mainlanders and HKers. i never had a problem with mainlanders in china, its the way they live and behave. however, when viewing them in HK i can see how it irks locals.

 

[peternorth]

Wouldn't be betting on Macau. I was there last week and it was very quiet, there are casinos everywhere but nothing else, no restaurants, nothing. It was very odd. Far different from when I was there a few years back.

there are restaurants, however they are in alleyways and off the beaten track so to speak