Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

[RussellEbertHandball]

The presidents are meeting tomorrow to go thru the charges

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-21/afl-reveals-charges

THE AFL has released details of the charges it has laid against Essendon in regards to its supplement program.
The League's chairman, Mike Fitzpatrick, has also called a meeting of all 18 club presidents, which will be held at AFL house at 3pm on Thursday.
Fitzpatrick will brief the president on the extent of the charges at the meeting.
The cover page of the document released on Wednesday states that Essendon has been charged with engaging in "conduct unbecoming or likely to prejudice the interests or reputation of the Australian Football League or to bring the game of football into disrepute".
In a statement released along with the charges on Wednesday afternoon, the League stated that:
"In light of the importance of the AFL’s investigation and the legitimate interest of the public in matters pertaining to the integrity of the AFL competition, in the interests of transparency and so that the public can have an understanding of the nature of the charges relating to these matters, the AFL has decided to publish the Statement of Grounds for Essendon Football Club.
"The AFL notes that certain confidential parts of the Statement of Grounds have been redacted.
"The AFL highlights that the Statement of Grounds contains the charges only and their correctness or otherwise remains to be determined.
"The Essendon Football Club and all other parties will be given every reasonable opportunity to answer these charges."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-21/afl-reveals-charges

 

[*PAF]

You would think there is no coming back from that....I don't think it's safe for James to even go to the football on Saturday... much less coach a side.

The Bombers gave the responsibility of coaching a side to these clowns ....it doesn't surprise me in a way because I genuinely believed that this is the character that James has been hiding....I'm just shocked that I was right.

The Weapon when interviewed said that the biggest issue he had at Essendon was that what Hird wanted Hird had to get.
That quote plus

"I am very frustrated by this and now feel I am letting the club down by not automatically approving of these things."

from Reid's letter seem to give his statement some weight.

 

[It Just Is]

I presume the blacked out sections are in relation to the players and as such can't be released until ASADA has concluded its investigation?

In any case there's probably more than enough there to suggest that the players are in real trouble and will likely receive infraction notices at some stage.

 

[manureid]

Geez, that letter!!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I presume the blacked out sections are in relation to the players and as such can't be released until ASADA has concluded its investigation?

In any case there's probably more than enough there to suggest that the players are in real trouble and will likely receive infraction notices at some stage.

Players plus other stuff. From the statement

"The AFL notes that certain confidential parts of the Statement of Grounds have been redacted.

 

[philthy05]

that letter from reid is damning.

basically warns the club that the drugs are a huge grey area legally wise , and would be bad for the sports/ clubs reputation and the long term effects of the drugs are not known.

a) this confirms other evidence pointing that the club knew it wasnt legal. goes against their early claims they were told it was.

b) knew of the danger to the games reputation and still went ahead. what ever the maximum penalty for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute are they should be hit with them.

c) were warned that the long term effects are not known by their own medical professional. still went ahead.

now it's entirely possible that there will be no actual ill effects, but when it comes to the health of people you are responsible for you dont take a gamble.

 

[philthy05]

it seems like it was a win at all costs mindset and that framed everything they did.

hideous. absolutely hideous.

the one thing that must come out of this is that the afl must fine essendon a large sum of money then put that money directly into campaigning heavily against this type of behaviour at all levels from counseling and meetings with afl staff and players in the off-season through to grass-roots footy. funded by the fine from essendon, even if the sum is so huge they pay it back in installments whatever it costs to send counsellors and medical experts and some good old fashioned role models to every bloody football club in australia slamming essendons behaviour and talking about the merits of having a good old crack and the honor of the game. whether it be $10 million or $40mill do it and make essendon pay for it. would also consider depending on what the players knew of if they get off scott free (i dont hold them as accountable as a lot above them was shady) i would think passing around a hat and asking them to contribute 4% of that years earnings as a fine into the education funds would be a good idea.

this type of behaviour must be abolutely shamed, slammed, and destroyed into oblivion so completely and utterly right now.

cycling lived in denial for so long and so slow to do anything its long beyond help. squash it like a bug.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Geez, that letter!!

Yep but why did Reid stick around from January last year when he wrote the letter, whilst Dank continued with his program until August or September???

Turning a blind eye isn't a great defence when he is fighting the AFL charges against him.

 

[Steve Dore]

34 pages of details and charges, with a few black texta black outs at

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

Having read that I can see why Hird's lawyers are hoping to get him off on a technicality. If the contents of that document are factual Hird is seriously @#$%ed.

 

[Phhht]

Yep but why did Reid stick around from January last year when he wrote the letter, whilst Dank continued with his program until August or September???

Turning a blind eye isn't a great defence when he is fighting the AFL charges against him.

Yup, its one thing to raise concerns (big tick for that at least) its another to then 'authorise' the use of AOD without following the very protocols brought in as a direct result of those raised concerns.

Going by Hirdy's suggestion of "united nations" diplomacy, sounds like Hirdy got someone to convince Reidy to bend to his (Hird's) wishes.

And as far as the players are concerned, they should be punished. I still dont subscribe to the theory of 'they didnt really know it was illegal'. They allowed these unknown (and known) substances to be administered to themselves, it isnt hard to ask exactly what the substances were and do some due diligence yourself. I'll say it again, how many effing seminars do you need to sit thru' before it sinks in that you are responsible for what goes in your body. No body else, YOU!

 

[philthy05]

to be honest i would throw a life ban on any leader at the club who knew and didnt speak up.

set up a program i mentioned above (awareness afl and grass-roots footy) and see it funded by essendons coffers for the next 5 years.

if there was enough there for the players to have known something was wrong match suspensions for the leadership group (not long, for instance 2-3 games, would also allow the club to spread those over the beginning of the season ie not all players at once) of the bombers unless they can show (evidence) they made a reasonable attempt to speak out. these are the guys that lead the group , they are the ones that should have been representing the groups interests here and spoken out protecting their group.

fine essendon players some small amount, to put towards funding the awareness campaigns. or ask them to be involved community service style visiting grass-roots footy clubs and speaking out about the dangers etc etc.

removal of premiership points , ideally this year and next but likely too late for this year. would not remove more than 6 points as that is quite a difference.

removal of draft picks. would not go to heavily here. no use killing the future of the club for past indiscretions. something like no first round pick for 2 years or maybe all draft picks moved to the end of the round for the next 2 years.

the main thing that should come out of any action the afl takes is

a) removal of the instigators of the programs for life from the sport

b) huge money and effort put into stamping this stuff from the game completely all the way from afl level to grass-roots footy.

 

[Steve Dore]

Yep but why did Reid stick around from January last year when he wrote the letter, whilst Dank continued with his program until August or September???

Turning a blind eye isn't a great defence when he is fighting the AFL charges against him.

After writing that letter he really dug himself a hole by continuing to turn a blind eye. It seems he couldn't bring himself to have a confrontation with living legend James Hird.

 

[Rexie J]

Regardless of the final outcome, very doubtful if Hird and Thompson's football coaching careers will survive.

The continual regurgitating of this shambles will continue to plague them for many years.

Difficult to comprehend how such a cavalier approach to player welfare could apparently permeate the entire football department.

Doubtful if points will be stripped but suspect the penalty will be severe if the club is found guilty - which hasn't happened as yet.

 

[western royboy]

Gents

I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

 

[Rexie J]

Gents

I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

Clearly this is not going to end in the next few days.

Uglier and messier.

 

[Alberton Proud]

Gents

I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

Just listened to the Hird Presser - sounds like this is what they are going to at least try !

 

[Steve Dore]

Players plus other stuff. From the statement

"The AFL notes that certain confidential parts of the Statement of Grounds have been redacted.

In this list of drugs at point 124 drug (h) (which I assume is not H) is redacted. What is confidential about the name of a drug?

 

[b0ydman]

Knew "not prohibited" still does not mean approved for use.

Gone, gone and gone.

Players too. They knew. What did they think they were doing off site and signing forms for.

Robbo last night needs to be called out.

NOT PROHIBITED DOES NOT MEAN APPROVED

Robbo and Whatley either know this, or are morons.

Probably both

Goodbye essendon

 

[Steve Dore]

..... I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

Not sure how that will save Hird.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Having read that I can see why Hird's lawyers are hoping to get him off on a technicality. If the contents of that document are factual Hird is seriously @#$%ed.

This is all about legal technicalities for Hird and co. and Essendon. If you have followed the BALCO case, the baseballers, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Roger Clements etc and the BALCO track and field athletes Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, now with Alex Rodriguez, Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens and Armstrong, its all about pit bull lawyers going after legal technicalities to get their client off. They have no respect for common sense and fairness. If a signature on a doping sample form is missing, they will use that as a reason to get their client off and avoid answering the real questions.

Shit some of baseballers have perjured themselves in testimony and Clemens got off because the jury couldn't render a verdict despite 11 hours of deliberation after the lawyers muddied the waters. Hird and Essendon's lawyers would be speaking to the lawyers in the USA for the above sports stars or others that got off.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...emens-verdict/1?csp=breakingnews#.UhRfdpJgfLE

Clemens will be eligible for baseball's Hall of Fame ballot for the first time in December, along with Barry Bonds, the game's all-time home run leader who was convicted on one count of obstruction of justice at his own federal perjury trial in April 2011.
That jury, however, could not render a verdict on three counts of perjury relating to Bonds' statements to a federal grand jury investigating the BALCO steroids ring.
....
The panel of eight women and four men deliberated for roughly 11 hours in U.S. District Court, including less than four hours over two days last week. The complex trial, which began April 16, was in its 10th week and included 26 days of testimony by 46 witnesses.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...emens-verdict/1?csp=breakingnews#.UhRfdpJgfLE

 

[BornPort]

Gents

I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

I think it's odd Hird is trying to make it about AD. He's a desperate and delusion man.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Gents

I have a link to the Essendon legal team - The mail from them is that they are going to nail Vlad to the wall.

What for - ie what specific charge will they make against him?

 

[Phhht]

Not sure how that will save Hird.

Its like they think that if they throw enough muck at AD it will get them off. Do they really believe that AD is responsible for the shoddy 'supplements program' at Essendon? If not how will nailing him to the wall get them to escape their punishment for basically being morons?

 

[Steve Dore]

Its like they think that if they throw enough muck at AD it will get them off. Do they really believe that AD is responsible for the shoddy 'supplements program' at Essendon? If not how will nailing him to the wall get them to escape their punishment for basically being morons?

Yeah, I didn't see any mention of AD in the evidence against Hird et al in that charge sheet released by the AFL. Hird's lawyers can discredit AD all they like but it is not as if he is a material witness in the case against Hird.

I'm not saying that AD or the AFL have managed this whole saga well.

 

[Stromageddon]

Imagine if this was our club. I'd be absolutely filthy and ashamed.