How good is Warren Tredrea?

[tribey]

Tredrea is a sensational minor round footballer who has yet to prove himself in September.

That's actually untrue, Tredrea's September output matches up favourably to his current day contempories, despite the infamous chokes and beltings his side has suffered excluding 2004.

 

[Fergus]

That's actually untrue, Tredrea's September output matches up favourably to his current day contempories, despite the infamous chokes and beltings his side has suffered excluding 2004.

I agree and the stats back you up, but Tredrea has yet to take a final by scruff of the neck and dominate it like a Carey has on occassions.

 

[outback jack]

Tredrea is a sensational minor round footballer who has yet to prove himself in September.

another strong point, his grandfinal performance showed a lack of faith by mark williams too. Only strong performance was the prelim against the saints, but it wasn’t a strong marking dominant physical type performance. In other yrs his output has been minimal and one of the reasons for the power numerous choking efforts.

 

[johnnypanther]

although carey wasnt a good overhead mark either, and only took overhead marks very early in his career. The fact that he didnt have this advantage shows how well he read the ball through the air, and his physical strength and presence to take pack marks was outstanding. Its amazing how quickly ppl forget how good he was. Unless you were a north supporter, absolutely everyone hated him, cause he was just so good. Tredrea doesnt even come in the class really.

sorry my error - i did actually mean "contested pack marks" as distinct from the pure overhead mark

my everlasting vision of Carey is of him bursting a pack to mark on his chest

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

That's actually untrue, Tredrea's September output matches up favourably to his current day contempories, despite the infamous chokes and beltings his side has suffered excluding 2004.

I think he has kicked roughly 24 goals ( maybe even less )from 14 finals (avg 1.7 ). Hardly what you would call dominating stats from your number 1 forward. Even if you look at the last 3 years, when Port was one of two dominant teams in the comp, his stats are not very flattering:

2002 - 3 finals - 4 goals,
2003 - 3 finals - 6 goals,
2004 - 3 finals - 6 goals.

Total - 9 finals - 16 goals ( avg 1.77)

 

[johnnypanther]

(Modra to Freo) For which we got draft picks 29 and 34 IIRC. We got shafted.

we certainly got shafted at the time - but fortunately at least out of it now we ended up with 100 games from Stenglein and hopefully about 200 games from Scott Thompson

in some ways the best trades appear to be obtaining a 1st rounder plus a 2nd rounder (or similar) for an aging player, providing those picks are then used successfully on picking up a younger player
eg Rehn for picks 12 & 48 (we could have got S Burgoyne or Kane Cornes)
Stenglein (although not aging) for 12 & 28 (Thompson & Gibson (fingers crossed))
Kangaroos - Carey for 4

However its not a good culture for clubs to trade away their aging stars

of course the other downside to that Modra trade was that in subsequent years we wasted so many draft picks/trades trying to find the extra marking forward we lacked - and arguably losing Modra may have cost us a 3rd premiership

 

[Crow-mosone]

u realise it was a joke? I still hold myself in high regard though.

you should try holding yourself a little less

 

[*PAF]

Fk me. Isn't it amazing how "old" players get better as the years go by?
Carey was a great player in his prime, but to say he performed in every single game means that you didn't really see him apart from highlight passages.
Do not let me start on Brereton. His kicking for goal ... well that's another story.
Ablett? Again great player, and made brilliant highlight packages, but miles and miles behind Dunstall as a complete team package, and if he played today with flooding etc, he wouldn't be anywhere the legend status he got to.
Fact is Tredrea is a brilliant player. Outback Jack (and whatever other aliases he has) is on a mission about Port and anything Port, so he only talks facts that he gets off the main board.
Want to talk about how Carey busted packs and Tredrea doesn't?
How about we talk how Tredrea can pick the ball up out of a pack 40-50m out and snap a goal with either foot with amazing accuracy better than Carey did. If his set shots were as accurate as his snaps on either foot he'd have a bucketload more by now.
Fact is that this type of cheap talk, by upping one trait and pretending other traits are not as important to suit an argument is crap.
Every generation has a dominant player, and that player atm is Tredrea. Riewoldt is the heir apparent, not Brown. Now we have to wait and see if he get there.

 

[JohnK]

Fk me. Isn't it amazing how "old" players get better as the years go by?...Carey was a great player in his prime...Want to talk about how Carey busted packs and Tredrea doesn't? How about we talk how Tredrea can pick the ball up out of a pack 40-50m out and snap a goal with either foot with amazing accuracy... Every generation has a dominant player, and that player atm is Tredrea. Riewoldt is the heir apparent, not Brown...

Good post, PAF. I like you statement that every generation has a dominant player... In fact, that's a whole new line of enquiry.

How long exactly is a football generation. Is it getting shorter all the time as the game speeds up? Was a football generation once ten years? Is it now five? Are we entering the post-Brisbane generation, right now?

Is it even shorter than that? Is a generation now three years?

Glen Archer, for example, my favourite player in the comp, has straddled much change in the game over a very short period of time. As flooding and counter flooding has entered the fray, he plays the same courageous game, week in, week out. Backing into packs, putting his body over the ball, always trying to get value from his possessions. Archer stands against time, shows his value through the evolution of football styles, plays the same game when the coach changes, stands tall in his boots.

Riewoldt is the heir apparent, not Brown...

Don't know about that. Post injury, Riewoldt may never become that dominant player again. He will always be useful. With his skills and physique, he can't fail to be useful. But if his ability to mark overhead is restricted, his potential for dominance will go. Coaches and players will know how to counter him. His own teammates may start to avoid him as the go-to player.

The question about Tredrea, which I initially posed on this thread, was always about his future. How good can he become? Can he move through the generations like Archer, can he learn new aspects of the game, can he become a long term dominant figure in different roles? He is not a dominator at the moment. He's stuck in the top paddock staring at the play most of the time with a team that can't put the butter on his toast.

Will his coach keep him there? Waiting, waiting for the team's fortunes to turn around? Stuck, almost, in an already old Port generation, an already old premiership fuzz?

I don't know. Adelaide fans don't need to care, I guess. But if Williams bit this huge bullet, restructured his team and gave Tredrea a brand new role which somehow got Port into the 2005 grand final, not only would those people on this thread who say that I write a lot of **** have to look at themselves, most teams' game plans would have to be turned upside down.

If Williams does nothing over the next five to ten weeks, and just hopes that Plan A (get the ball to Tredrea for chestmarks) will eventually start working, my paranoia will have been wasted. I'll look stupid but I will be happy.

This will mean that Adelaide will win the second Showdown this year in Round 20 and probably ensure its place in the finals.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Glen Archer, for example, my favourite player in the comp, has straddled much change in the game over a very short period of time. As flooding and counter flooding has entered the fray, he plays the same courageous game, week in, week out. Backing into packs, putting his body over the ball, always trying to get value from his possessions. Archer stands against time, shows his value through the evolution of football styles, plays the same game when the coach changes, stands tall in his boots.



The question about Tredrea, which I initially posed on this thread, was always about his future. How good can he become? Can he move through the generations like Archer, can he learn new aspects of the game, can he become a long term dominant figure in different roles? He is not a dominator at the moment. He's stuck in the top paddock staring at the play most of the time with a team that can't put the butter on his toast.

According to you Archer has played the same game over his career and been a great player. But to be like him Tredrea has to change. Seems like a contradictory example to me.

I don't know. Adelaide fans don't need to care, I guess. But if Williams bit this huge bullet, restructured his team and gave Tredrea a brand new role which somehow got Port into the 2005 grand final, not only would those people on this thread who say that I write a lot of **** have to look at themselves, most teams' game plans would have to be turned upside down.

Did North Melbourne become the team of the 90s by building a team around Wayne Carey at CHB?

Did Geelong play in 3 GFs in 6 years by building a team around Gary Ablett on a HBF?

 

[tribey]

Well, he destroyed Scarlett and Harley tonight, the second best one/two defensive double act in the business behind Michael and Leppitsch, who he creamed in round 2.

Ask not what Tredders can do for you, but what you can do for Tredders - every round this year he's had bugger all help in that forward line. Unlike Riewoldt who has Hamill and Gehrig to help him, unlike Brown who has/d Lynch and Bradshaw, it's Tredders versus the world...

What more can he do?

 

[macca23]

Well, he destroyed Scarlett and Harley tonight, the second best one/two defensive double act in the business behind Michael and Leppitsch, who he creamed in round 2.

Ask not what Tredders can do for you, but what you can do for Tredders - every round this year he's had bugger all help in that forward line. Unlike Riewoldt who has Hamill and Gehrig to help him, unlike Brown who has/d Lynch and Bradshaw, it's Tredders versus the world...

What more can he do?

I went to the game tonight DT and IMO Warren was phenomenal against very classy opposition. He is the best forward going round in the comp at the moment.

Didn't have much support though and not much supply from a mid-field which is pretty poor at the moment.

Just imagine how well our forward line would be ttravelling with Tredders in it!!

 

[Truck Rutten]

Every generation has a dominant player, and that player atm is Tredrea. Riewoldt is the heir apparent, not Brown. Now we have to wait and see if he get there.

Says who? Many, many astute football judges rate Reiwoldt as the best player in the competition already (pre-injury). Many others would put Judd ahead of both St Nick and Tredders. Everyone is going to have their own opinion as to who the "best" player is, and of course when one of the guns in the comp comes from your team, you're going to be just a little biased aren't you? Personally I think it's Scott Thompson

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I went to the game tonight DT and IMO Warren was phenomenal against very classy opposition. He is the best forward going round in the comp at the moment.

Didn't have much support though and not much supply from a mid-field which is pretty poor at the moment.

Just imagine how well our forward line would be ttravelling with Tredders in it!!

Just imagine if we had Tredders in our side with our midfield players

 

[just maybe]

Fk me. Isn't it amazing how "old" players get better as the years go by?
Carey was a great player in his prime, but to say he performed in every single game means that you didn't really see him apart from highlight passages.
Do not let me start on Brereton. His kicking for goal ... well that's another story.
Ablett? Again great player, and made brilliant highlight packages, but miles and miles behind Dunstall as a complete team package, and if he played today with flooding etc, he wouldn't be anywhere the legend status he got to.
Fact is Tredrea is a brilliant player. Outback Jack (and whatever other aliases he has) is on a mission about Port and anything Port, so he only talks facts that he gets off the main board.
Want to talk about how Carey busted packs and Tredrea doesn't?
How about we talk how Tredrea can pick the ball up out of a pack 40-50m out and snap a goal with either foot with amazing accuracy better than Carey did. If his set shots were as accurate as his snaps on either foot he'd have a bucketload more by now.
Fact is that this type of cheap talk, by upping one trait and pretending other traits are not as important to suit an argument is crap.
Every generation has a dominant player, and that player atm is Tredrea. Riewoldt is the heir apparent, not Brown. Now we have to wait and see if he get there.

You seem to be suggesting that Tredrea is worthy of being talked about in the same class as Carey. He isn't and never will be. Don't even try that line, it's ridiculous.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You seem to be suggesting that Tredrea is worthy of being talked about in the same class as Carey. He isn't and never will be. Don't even try that line, it's ridiculous.

Your kidding
I do not think that argument is unwarranted particularly as the style of footy today (not wanting to kick to contests) means Carey had the advantage in his era of players kicking to the contest thus Carey was dominant due to his great one on one skills.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Your kidding
I do not think that argument is unwarranted particularly as the style of footy today (not wanting to kick to contests) means Carey had the advantage in his era of players kicking to the contest thus Carey was dominant due to his great one on one skills.

Are you serious WW? Carey is universally regarded as one of the best players ever to pull on a boot. Tredders is a great player, but he's not in the same league as that occupied by the King at the peak of his powers. Get hold of some footage from Carey's halcyon days.....it's scary how good that man was.

 

[just maybe]

Your kidding
I do not think that argument is unwarranted particularly as the style of footy today (not wanting to kick to contests) means Carey had the advantage in his era of players kicking to the contest thus Carey was dominant due to his great one on one skills.

You're on crack.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Are you serious WW? Carey is universally regarded as one of the best players ever to pull on a boot. Tredders is a great player, but he's not in the same league as that occupied by the King at the peak of his powers. Get hold of some footage from Carey's halcyon days.....it's scary how good that man was.

Absolutely serious:

1. Your judging Carey's whole career against Tredders who still has not peaked
2. The game style is completely different now V in the 90's - listen to Carey on TV and listen to him complain about the style and how hard it is for forwards now.
3. The comment was whether in fact Tredders V Carey comparison should be argued - I have suggested yes - not that he is as good as Carey now or ever will be, but just that you could debate the merits of Tredrae

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You're on crack.

Given your feelings the great thing is we don't have to communicate with each other as we obviously have a massive difference in intellectual ability to debate

 

[*PAF]

Are you serious WW? Carey is universally regarded as one of the best players ever to pull on a boot. Tredders is a great player, but he's not in the same league as that occupied by the King at the peak of his powers. Get hold of some footage from Carey's halcyon days.....it's scary how good that man was.

What WW and I put forward is that you cannot debate players from very different eras. All you can really say is how they rate with respect to their peers.
Tredrea has not quite reached the level wrt his peers that Carey did, not sure if he ever will. Nobody is debating that. However that is all that can be compared.

Tredrea IS the dominant player of the last few years. He has not won a Brownlow like Judd, and probably never will, but that is saying that Harvey was more dominant than Carey.


As far as "old" players go, unless you followed them when they were around, then all you get to see is highlight packages. They can give a very skewed version of history if one allows it to.

 

[Bentleigh]

Good average player.

 

[Total Power]

Good average player.

Tredrea>Brown>Coughlan>Johnson>Richo

 

[just maybe]

Given your feelings the great thing is we don't have to communicate with each other as we obviously have a massive difference in intellectual ability to debate

I have no doubt I am intellectually superior to you, but there's no point in arguing with you because you'll beat me into submission with your stupidity.

But it's funny you overlook the fact that the reason the Kangaroos were happy to kick to a contest is...because Carey was there, and they knew he could mark it.

 

[tribey]

Ask not what Tredders can do for you, but what you can do for Tredders - every round this year he's had bugger all help in that forward line. Unlike Riewoldt who has Hamill and Gehrig to help him, unlike Brown who has/d Lynch and Bradshaw, it's Tredders versus the world...

Further to this point I made and applying it to the respective arguments of the likes of WW and JM who have brought Carey into the equation, it is worth noting that Carey had first a Coleman Medallist in Longmire and then a would-be Brownlow Medallist in McKernan to work with for the bulk of his time at the top.

When you have someone of a similar quality to work with the job at hand is that much easier - at the very least the opposition coach has two massive headaches instead of just the one, which inturn makes sure that the two best defenders well and truly have their hands full at all times, and can't just concentrate on double-teaming the one focal point.

While it's far too early to say that Tredrea is or isn't in Carey's class (or Kernahan's or Brereton's or anyone else's - come on, he's still got 6 or 7 years left in the game to write his legacy either way), even the greatest had quality help. As said above, Carey had Longmire and McKernan, and Brereton had some of the greatest players of alltime sharing his forward-line - Dunstall and Lethal for starters.

Tredrea is still waiting for some real support, unless we're counting Paul Evans, Che Cockatoo-Collins, Toby Thurstans, Bowen Lockwood...

Food for thought.