Opinion How to use Round 23

[DangerSloane]

Before.

Well... we didnt cop any of the punishment until after he arrived at the club.
He also had nothing to do with it.

 

[Wright Away]

Whilst this is true, Geelong stuck by Bomber when their culture was down the tube and had load of underperforming stars. It took a complete overhaul of the football department and a massive reality check for the players. Did pretty well for them.

I dont know whether Sando is the right man for the job but sacking him probably isnt the answer.

The key thing being complete overhaul of the football department and a massive reality check for the players. Nothing approaching this has occured at the Crows, nothing in the same universe.

Then there is the unknown (sort of unknown) of the competence of Sando compared to Bomber, though going on the available evidence of Geelong pre 2007 Bomber made effective selection decisions for the development of the list, something Sando has arguably failed to do.

 

[Wright Away]

Well... we didnt cop any of the punishment until after he arrived at the club.
He also had nothing to do with it.

Yes, but the major impacts of the lost draft picks will not begin to show for a couple more years. Unless the Crows were intended to trade all the first round picks.

 

[DangerSloane]

What you dont think that any of the 4 players we could've drafted in the past 2 years could have made any difference to our depth or team at all?

I know the draft strike rate isnt exactly high, but surely at least 1 out of the 4 players would be heavily contributing by now.

 

[Wright Away]

What you dont think that any of the 4 players we could've drafted in the past 2 years could have made any difference to our depth or team at all?

I know the draft strike rate isnt exactly high, but surely at least 1 out of the 4 players would be heavily contributing by now.

18-19 year olds, no not really. Likely only one of them would be in the team most weeks.

Have you been watching the Crows since Sando has been here and been observing his selection policies. Depth in development players isn't really useful depth in terms of winning football games, it is only useful if the club is actively engaged in redeveloping the profile of the playing list, which just hasn't been the case under Sando.

So no, I do not that under the current coach that too many of the potential draftees would have made a big impact, unless they were absolute standouts or fit some pressing need in the side, and given our drafting and the finishing positions (i.e not top 5 pick) its pretty much a lottery whether that would happen anyway.

Edit:

It would really only be after 2-3 years of development that these players would have the opportunity to make an impact, that is if they even lasted that long. This is why the sanction will only truly begin to hurt in a couple more years, the gap in the list's age/talent profile will be damaging likely in much the same way as the recruitment and selection policies of Gary Ayers (old people only), perhaps more damaging, only time will tell.

Now is this Sando's fault, no, but he should be making the most of what he has at his disposal which I do not think he is doing, (just my opinion) I do not think the structures, instructions and selections on game day are conducive with this club playing to the best of its ability now and into the future.

 

[DangerSloane]

At 18-19 year olds, no not really. Likely only one of them would be in the team most weeks.

Have you been watching the Crows since Sando has been here and been observing his selection policies. Depth in development players isn't really useful dept in terms of winning football games, it is only useful if the club is actively engaged in redeveloping the profile of the playing list, which just hasn't been the case under Sando.

So no, I do not that under the current coach that too many of the potential draftees would have made a big impact, unless they were absolute standouts or fit some pressing need in the side, and given our drafting and the finishing positions (i.e not top 5 pick) its pretty much a lottery whether that would happen anyway.

Its all conjecture.
Its just that I can imagine how much better it would be with 4 youngsters replacing the spots of 4 list cloggers.
The future would look brighter and IMO so would the present.

 

[Wright Away]

Its all conjecture.
Its just that I can imagine how much better it would be with 4 youngsters replacing the spots of 4 list cloggers.
The future would look brighter and IMO so would the present.

Oh yeah no doubt, plenty of unknowns and speculation. In every world it would be much better to have 4 1st/2nd round players in the list, we likely wouldn't have Porps or Graham on the list stll if we had gotten those picks. (Likely wouldn't have gotten Graham at all).

 

[hey shorty]

The key thing being complete overhaul of the football department and a massive reality check for the players. Nothing approaching this has occured at the Crows, nothing in the same universe.

Then there is the unknown (sort of unknown) of the competence of Sando compared to Bomber, though going on the available evidence of Geelong pre 2007 Bomber made effective selection decisions for the development of the list, something Sando has arguably failed to do.

The football overhaul IMO will happen this off season, nothing concrete to go on but the fact that there hasnt been this much discontent in supporters and media since Ayres suggests it will happen. That then provides the reality check. Our list isnt as talented as theres was/is but back then they were very talented, lazy, and ill disciplined. A strong CEO and football GM together with a new board member/chairman in waiting who has a media presence will push things along.

As for the 4 draft picks, they make a HUGE difference in terms of list profile. Ben Kennedy, Horlin-Smith and Christian Salem are handy ins and who knows we may have upgraded one of those picks.

The pressure is on Sando, start like this year and we will interviewing new coaches.

 

[BobaFett]

If richmond win on saturday, make 10 late changes.

 

[hey shorty]

The 22 wont be decided until that result IMO. If they lose go flat out, if they win go flat out and make 3 late changes.

 

[King Elvis]

There's already a number of Sando threads so I don't want to go too far down that path here, but I couldn't stomach the suggestion that Lyon has been given credit for Harvey's latent genius.

I think Sando has to go, not because we lost on the weekend, or because he left Luke Thompson on Jack Ziebell, or because we're going to miss the finals, or because we've given up leads in 5 last quarters this year, although those things are symptoms of what I perceive to be the problem with him.

It's because there is no structure to our game.

It's because our forward line movement and entries are such that we can get 17 consecutive inside 50s without taking a mark inside 50 or particularly looking like taking one.

It's because we have no apparent defensive system that goes beyond running at the ball carrier, resulting in a defence including the AA full back, an AA half back and two small defenders having career years shipping nearly 100 points per game.

It's because there is no apparent system for our kick ins from full back, which has resulted in us spending the last 2 last quarters pinned in defence to the point where it's a relief when the opposition finally kicks a goal so we can get back to the centre and try again.

It's because there is no apparent system from opposition kick ins resulting in momentum sapping coast to coast plays with the opposition given the freedom of the centre square when we are 2 goals up in the last quarter of the most important game of the season.

It's because whenever an opponent is able to get their hands on the ball in a contest, they are one clean handball away from having all the time in the world to find a target, whereas we are limited to hacking it forward, because there is no structure to our attack or defense coming out of a contest.

I could live with being where Melbourne are if there appeared to be some sort of plan that players were not good enough or not experienced enough to implement, or if it looked like the players were learning something.

But all I see every week is the same completely directionless footy, with the same players making the mistakes and the team's overall structure falling down in the same places.

I honestly believe that with a better coach we would be at least competing for a top 4 spot with the Geelongs, Freos and Ports of the world.

I stood up and applauded this post; fantastic, and exactly why I want Sando gone (there are a lot of other reasons, but this is the damning one).

Bassett's Norwood was a better structured, better drilled and more disciplined side than Sando's Crows.

By a mile.

 

[King Elvis]

Its all conjecture.
Its just that I can imagine how much better it would be with 4 youngsters replacing the spots of 4 list cloggers.
The future would look brighter and IMO so would the present.

Lyons, Kerridge and M Crouch struggle to get a game, it wouldn't have mattered.

It would've stopped our SANFL side from being such a shambles, but would've had minimal impact upon our AFL side; that hurt will really start to become apparent in the next two seasons

 

[Sanders]

The way they did it was ruthless and cruel. And some could say that Lyon is living off the proceeds of all the hard work completed by Harvey. The jury has to be out on his appointment until he brings them a flag.

Sure and Craig was living off Ayres and Blight off Shaw.

The jury is most certainly not out on the move, not in any shape or form.

It was a masterstroke

 

[Sanders]

Whilst this is true, Geelong stuck by Bomber when their culture was down the tube and had load of underperforming stars. It took a complete overhaul of the football department and a massive reality check for the players. Did pretty well for them.

Except they didn't "stand by bomber". They had a full review, took away everything but game day responsibility and gave him a new boss.

They made huge changes, not doubling down in hope

 

[FR0GGY]

If richmond win on saturday, make 10 late changes.

Out: Pods, Pods, Pods, JPod, Pods, J Podsiadly, JPOD, James Podsiadly, JPod and Pods

 

[hey shorty]

Except they didn't "stand by bomber". They had a full review, took away everything but game day responsibility and gave him a new boss.

They made huge changes, not doubling down in hope

I would have no issues if we did the same, with a senior assistant to keep him on his toes.

 

[headache1]

You don't give up in professional sport. In cycling there might be a rider with only a few seconds gap on the main field after being out in front all day but they'll still ride as hard as they can until they're caught because they know that anything can happen. How stupid would we look if all the results fell our way and we lose to st kilda because we rest players or experiment.

There's also this guy called Steven Bradbury.

Get into the 8, and anything can happen!

Hmm, that sounds familiar for some reason.

 

[headache1]

Out: Pods, Pods, Pods, JPod, Pods, J Podsiadly, JPOD, James Podsiadly, JPod and Pods

Podra a likely game time scratch too.

 

[Tex200]

Sure and Craig was living off Ayres and Blight off Shaw.

The jury is most certainly not out on the move, not in any shape or form.

It was a masterstroke

I think that overstates it somewhat as things stand. If they win a flag then yes, clearly it was.

However if they dont, well, they are an ageing list who could fall off the cliff pretty quickly and end up in the wilderness for 5-8 years . Just like StKilda.

 

[Sanders]

I think that overstates it somewhat as things stand. If they win a flag then yes, clearly it was.

However if they dont, well, they are an ageing list who could fall off the cliff pretty quickly and end up in the wilderness for 5-8 years . Just like StKilda.

You mean they could go back to where they were when Lyon came in? Not sure they're too concerned by that

They have a first class operation these days, they'll be fine

 

[AFC979810]

Sure and Craig was living off Ayres and Blight off Shaw.

The jury is most certainly not out on the move, not in any shape or form.

It was a masterstroke

Disagree here.

They brought in Ross Lyon to win a flag. If he doesn't then his tenure was a failure. He has recruited along these lines - bringing in Dawson, Pearce, Sylvia, Gumbleton.

They have a tremendous spine containing McPharlin, Sandilands, Pavlich - who have all been All Australians but are 32,31,32 respectively. If they don't win a flag in 2014/2015 I don't think they will one for a while.

There must be a question mark about Ross Lyon. 4 Grand Finals and zero wins.

 

[Sanders]

There must be a question mark about Ross Lyon. 4 Grand Finals and zero wins.

C'mon. You're better than that

 

[AFC979810]

C'mon. You're better than that

There absolutely is a question about whether his gameplan can win a flag. Every year this pressure is going to build.

Currently he is the Mark Levy of the AFL.

 

[weneverland]

I don't think it matters much how we approach this game. Our course has been set by Sando who has steadfastly not deviated from his beliefs. It's probably too late to change now anyway.

Looking into my crystal ball here are my predictions. Assuming West coast wins, we need to win by about 80 points more than West Coast. This is what we will try to do. I predict we will fall agonizingly short, nothing gained. Next year we will read that the players have never been fitter, Tex is ready to go and the rest of the squad have the fire in their bellies after a disappointing season. Come the season proper it will be more of the same. We might be a position or two higher or lower but the AFC board will be satisfied as we were competitive.

 

[bobshoby]

Good chance to exercise in the improving weather, maybe go for a nice picnic or a bbq somewhere. Guardians of the Galaxy is a fun movie if you haven't gotten around to seeing it (though i'd wait for the cheap monday tickets personally!)

Or the masochistic among us might tune into the pointless end to a woeful season as we canter to an easy victory against incredibly poor opposition.