Opinion How will our back 6 evolve?

[Knightmare]

Knightmare

What are your thoughts on Freeman at pick 10 then? It sounds like he has a few too many cons at this point as a pick 10. Or is he worth it because of the speed he provides?

Freeman is someone different to what we have with his pace on another level which is the attraction and it seems he was evaluated by the club as the best available talent.

I consider Freeman a risk because I'm just not yet sure where he will find a position. But with his attributes he's someone certainly with the opportunity to make it.

Just looking at those others available I would have been more confident in going taller and taking Blake Acres as a midfielder with his game more suited to playing through the middle and I'd argue a better fit with what we've got as a tall, strong midfielder but with the versatility to play forward or back or even on a wing as required with his game better rounded.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Reid in 2011 was an All Australian down back thanks to be allowed to play with more freedom and being allowed to be more of an intercepter whereas under Nathan when played back he's been expected to be more of a shutdown key defender which as we've all noticed hasn't allowed him to impact games in the same way.

Give Reid the freedom down back as a loose defender and he's the most important player to winning on our list if he can recapture his 2011 form and kicking which I've found he's against that standard struggled with since.

As a forward Reid was effective this year but not best on our list good as I'd argue he was in the 2011 H+A season with what he was doing.

In actual fact, Reid had less freedom in 2011. He had a very specific role within a very structured gameplan, which dictated exactly where he needed to stand at every stoppage, and as a result he was the beneficiary of alot of poorly directed opposition kicks (until the competition figured it out). It was this that caused him to be the most prolific intercept marker in the competition for that year, not his own ability to read the play (which is still pretty good). This is why Reid has never been able to replicate his 2011 form.

People need to stop thinking we can get Reid of 2011 back. That Reid can come back when the gameplan does, and when the competition forget how to nulify it.

As has been mentioned previoulsy - yes, Reid is a better defender than forward. But this isn't about how to get the best out of Reid, it is how to get the best out of Collingwood. And we have more adequate cover in KPD (Keeffe and Frost) than we do for 2nd KPF. We need to play Reid where it is best for Collingwood, not for Reid. And that is what Buckley did late last year, and probably will do again next year (unless Lynch can capture some form).

 

[Knightmare]

In actual fact, Reid had less freedom in 2011. He had a very specific role within a very structured gameplan, which dictated exactly where he needed to stand at every stoppage, and as a result he was the beneficiary of alot of poorly directed opposition kicks (until the competition figured it out). It was this that caused him to be the most prolific intercept marker in the competition for that year, not his own ability to read the play (which is still pretty good). This is why Reid has never been able to replicate his 2011 form.

People need to stop thinking we can get Reid of 2011 back. That Reid can come back when the gameplan does, and when the competition forget how to nulify it.

As has been mentioned previoulsy - yes, Reid is a better defender than forward. But this isn't about how to get the best out of Reid, it is how to get the best out of Collingwood. And we have more adequate cover in KPD (Keeffe and Frost) than we do for 2nd KPF. We need to play Reid where it is best for Collingwood, not for Reid. And that is what Buckley did late last year, and probably will do again next year (unless Lynch can capture some form).

It depends on your values but I'd rather save a goal than score a goal.

Our backline is now terribly inexperienced and Reid is one of the few who can help be a stabilising factor. We've seen enough periods of games where the opposition team just go off and kick a series of goals in quick succession. With our game less boundary focused than under Malthouse it allows our midfielders less time than previously to help the back half and will mean we will leak more goals each game. The other issue down back is with so many purely negating types down back (Williams/Toovey/Brown) the rebound we can generate down back is very limited with Shaw now gone who was from a run and carry standpoint one of the very best in the competition and probably that major rebounder.
So Reid absolutely has significant value down back and that's in the same team as Keeffe and Brown.

Up forward we have enough talls. Cloke, Lynch and White are all in our plans for next year so if they're all performing then they can all provide more than enough size up front. With Lynch's professionalism he has the opportunity to turn things around. If he regains his penetration then he's a part of our best team.

Reid in 2011 was so successful I feel because of the tackling pressure up the ground. Recapture anything resembling this and he can be incredibly successful again down back, regardless of opposition planning if he's played as a loose man. Even in the scenario that he has a man go to him. It just gives our backline that little bit of extra stability.

It just depends on your vision of how our side is best set up and I expect opinions to vary.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

It depends on your values but I'd rather save a goal than score a goal.

Our backline is now terribly inexperienced and Reid is one of the few who can help be a stabilising factor. We've seen enough periods of games where the opposition team just go off and kick a series of goals in quick succession. With our game less boundary focused than under Malthouse it allows our midfielders less time than previously to help the back half and will mean we will leak more goals each game. The other issue down back is with so many purely negating types down back (Williams/Toovey/Brown) the rebound we can generate down back is very limited with Shaw now gone who was from a run and carry standpoint one of the very best in the competition and probably that major rebounder.
So Reid absolutely has significant value down back and that's in the same team as Keeffe and Brown.

Up forward we have enough talls. Cloke, Lynch and White are all in our plans for next year so if they're all performing then they can all provide more than enough size up front. With Lynch's professionalism he has the opportunity to turn things around. If he regains his penetration then he's a part of our best team.

Reid in 2011 was so successful I feel because of the tackling pressure up the ground. Recapture anything resembling this and he can be incredibly successful again down back, regardless of opposition planning if he's played as a loose man. Even in the scenario that he has a man go to him. It just gives our backline that little bit of extra stability.

It just depends on your vision of how our side is best set up and I expect opinions to vary.

I don't think Bucks is going to change his game plan though. He wants the "loose man" to be a mid.

I don't think Reid is as effective down back one on one, although like you I was in favour of this.
Changing my mind recently.

 

[iGNITER]

Really depends on whether Reid finds himself forward or back IMO.

If Reid goes back then -

B - Reid Brown Toovey
HB - Williams Keeffe Scharenberg

 

[Jelly Bean]

It depends on your values but I'd rather save a goal than score a goal.

Our backline is now terribly inexperienced and Reid is one of the few who can help be a stabilising factor. We've seen enough periods of games where the opposition team just go off and kick a series of goals in quick succession. With our game less boundary focused than under Malthouse it allows our midfielders less time than previously to help the back half and will mean we will leak more goals each game. The other issue down back is with so many purely negating types down back (Williams/Toovey/Brown) the rebound we can generate down back is very limited with Shaw now gone who was from a run and carry standpoint one of the very best in the competition and probably that major rebounder.
So Reid absolutely has significant value down back and that's in the same team as Keeffe and Brown.

Up forward we have enough talls. Cloke, Lynch and White are all in our plans for next year so if they're all performing then they can all provide more than enough size up front. With Lynch's professionalism he has the opportunity to turn things around. If he regains his penetration then he's a part of our best team.

Reid in 2011 was so successful I feel because of the tackling pressure up the ground. Recapture anything resembling this and he can be incredibly successful again down back, regardless of opposition planning if he's played as a loose man. Even in the scenario that he has a man go to him. It just gives our backline that little bit of extra stability.

It just depends on your vision of how our side is best set up and I expect opinions to vary.

Yep - opinions will vary alot. And probably continue to do so all year. On your points though:

As I mentioned, I don't think it is a one to one relationship with creating and saving goals around Reid's positioning. For example, I think he contributes more to goals in the forwardline (through his own kicking, and also taking men away from Cloke) than saving goals in the backline (where we have someone like Keeffe who's goal saving ability is almost the same imo). So even those two metrics could be measured accurately, I think Reid forward would generate more net score for the team (which is what should be assessed, e.g. scoring a goal and saving it is worth the same net to your team).

I agree we lose run and carry with Shaw gone, but Reid isn't a run and carry type though. Without his intercept marking, he rarely gets the ball. This is where Seedsman MUST step up, and probably why we have got Armstrong (and promoted Oxley) in case Seedsman doesn't. I also think Harry might go back for large chunks of the time this year. But Reid certainly doesn't address that. I would also argue that Williams isn't just a negating type, and I think even next year we will see him show attacking run more and more, but that is for another discussion.

I agree, Reid's position is almost directly related to whether Lynch is performing or not. I think he will certainly be given the chance this year, and it is up to him whether he can grab it with all nine fingers... I am of the school of thought that Reid is a better forward than Lynch, and expect this will be the way he is played by the end of the year. Hoping he proves me wrong, as Lynch, Cloke, White up forward and Reid, Brown, Keeffe down back is a good tall combo.

 

[motr]

I see White and Karnezis as the key to where Reid plays. The beauty of Karnezis as the third tall option is that we can afford to play Keeffe, Brown and Reid in the same team. Reid is ostensibly picked as a forward with Karnezis running through the midfield. If we have concerns down back, Reid swings back and our three marking options become Cloke, Karnezis and White. This of course will depend on White being able to give Grundy a chop out in the Ruck and Karnezis translating his NEAFL form into the AFL. According to a number of Brisbane posters, Karnezis was playing an influential role in the reserves, picking up big numbers and running hard both ways.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I see White and Karnezis as the key to where Reid plays. The beauty of Karnezis as the third tall option is that we can afford to play Keeffe, Brown and Reid in the same team. Reid is ostensibly picked as a forward with Karnezis running through the midfield. If we have concerns down back, Reid swings back and our three marking options become Cloke, Karnezis and White. This of course will depend on White being able to give Grundy a chop out in the Ruck and Karnezis translating his NEAFL form into the AFL. According to a number of Brisbane posters, Karnezis was playing an influential role in the reserves, picking up big numbers and running hard both ways.

Geez, I'd be astounded if Karnezis plays more than 10 games for us next year... If we have fewer injuries, I reckon he will struggle to get in the side next year.

 

[motr]

Geez, I'd be astounded if Karnezis plays more than 10 games for us next year... If we have fewer injuries, I reckon he will struggle to get in the side next year.

Karnezis was drafted for a reason. He's AFL ready and talented enough to break into the team. If it clicks for him I can see an important role for him.

 

[rand corp]

On Freeman:

We've certainly loaded up on mids and potential mids:

Mids: Ball, Beams, Pendlebury, Swan, JT, Adams, Kennedy, Blair, Freeman, Sidey, Blair
Potential Mids/Wingman: Karnezis, Scharenberg, Marsh, Fasolo, Elliot, Williams, Sinclair, Young, Oxley, Mooney, McCaffer, O'Brien, Dwyer, Martin, Clarke, Armstrong, Broomhead.

Obviously they wont all play across the midfield and many will play back or forward either in the AFL or VFL but that is a heck of a lot of midfield options right there.

What Freeman brings that is unique is both an ability to win his own inside ball and a blistering ability to break away from the pack at pace. What he really needs to work on is his vision and disposal efficiency but hopefully that will come with experience and guidance/mentoring.

 

[Hinequarters]

Through genetic mutation

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

If we follow the defence wins championships adage we need some time still (and luck) for the new breed to bond. im resigned to 2014 being the same as this year bit I think top 4 in 15 can be achieved off the back of a functioning defence.