How you rate our draft?

[_RT_]

I have bolded who I would prefer and that was just a quick look through.
Am prepared to give him this year to improve though. Haven't written him off, but still slighjtly concerned.

Outside Ziebell Sidebottom & possible Schoenmakers none of the ones you highlighted were worth pick 8 when draft, different story now after a few years in the system though. However, given the way most of our draftees seem to take a little longer to come on then its quite possible we could be tearing our hair about a couple of them.

 

[tugga]

Outside Ziebell Sidebottom & possible Schoenmakers none of the ones you highlighted were worth pick 8 when draft, different story now after a few years in the system though. However, given the way most of our draftees seem to take a little longer to come on then its quite possible we could be tearing our hair about a couple of them.

My argument all along wasn't the drafting of TV at all. It was using pick 8. I said all along we should have taken Ziebell with 8 and then used 26 McKernan, although in hindsight, I would change it to Roughead or Trengove.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what I think. I will be rapt to be proved very wrong on this.

 

[CeltDave]

My argument all along wasn't the drafting of TV at all. It was using pick 8. I said all along we should have taken Ziebell with 8 and then used 26 McKernan, although in hindsight, I would change it to Roughead or Trengove.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what I think. I will be rapt to be proved very wrong on this.

I really hope that TV really takes the bull by the horns this year & steps up. He has been lucky enough to be picked up by one of the biggest, committed & most passionate clubs in the AFL.

All we as supporters ask is that we are repaid with that same passion and committment demonstrated by the players towards our great club.

I really hope he plays forward & kicks >25-30 goals in 2011

Cheers,

 

[_RT_]

My argument all along wasn't the drafting of TV at all. It was using pick 8. I said all along we should have taken Ziebell with 8 and then used 26 McKernan, although in hindsight, I would change it to Roughead or Trengove.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what I think. I will be rapt to be proved very wrong on this.

After watching training the last couple of days and seeing how much bigger TV looks I think we'll start to see more consistency from the big fella.

 

[nut]

I'm on record at the time wanting Ziebell, Swift or Blease. At this stage only Ziebell has been better than Vickory.

 

[MightyTiger]

I'm on record at the time wanting Ziebell, Swift or Blease. At this stage only Ziebell has been better than Vickory.

This isn't a go at you nut or anything but, why do so many people spell this kids name wrong!!

It's VICKERY!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Sorry had to get that out of the way, have seen people spell his name wrong one too many times!..

PS: Vickery will turn out to be a fine player (barring injuries), just needs time, was/is severely undersized when he came into the AFL system for the position that he is required to play.

 

[THE_GUN]

I have absolutely no problem with the way tyrone vickery has gone so far & anybody expecting anymore from the kid in his first 3-4 years should have their heads read.

Very few kpp /ruckman show a great deal more than what TV has done so far. Watts , McKernon,Trengove,Roughead,Vickery are not that far apart in regards to development.

2012 is the season we should be making a judgment on his abilities,lets wait untill he has had 4 seasons of development & afl experience before we bag the kid.

Your never going to get a mathew kruezer or nic natunui at pick 8

 

[thecotch9]

Vickery will prove his critics wrong, not a a doubt in the world.
What certain people either don't realise or are too ignorant to take note of, is that most young ruckman drafted at the age of 18yrs aren't anywhere near ready for the rigours of AFL rucking. Richmond is at a development stage where some young players are being handed games, merely for the benefit of much-needed experience, rather then on merit. Vickery, at most other clubs may not have even played a game at AFL level yet due to pre-existing seasoned hard bodied ruckmen in front of him. At a club like Carlton, where there is a plethora of ruck options, Vickery would've been tucked away in the VFL, quietly going about developing his frame and endurance, until his body conditioning caught up with his natural talent.
However, what he has shown at the tender age of 19, is that he has very good speed for a big man, and his awareness and footballing smarts around the packs are extremely solid. Not every big man is ready to go like Kruezer. Not to mention Aaron Sandilands played his first AFL game at 21yrs old.

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Vickery will prove his critics wrong, not a a doubt in the world.
What certain people either don't realise or are too ignorant to take note of, is that most young ruckman drafted at the age of 18yrs aren't anywhere near ready for the rigours of AFL rucking. Richmond is at a development stage where some young players are being handed games, merely for the benefit of much-needed experience, rather then on merit. Vickery, at most other clubs may not have even played a game at AFL level yet due to pre-existing seasoned hard bodied ruckmen in front of him. At a club like Carlton, where there is a plethora of ruck options, Vickery would've been tucked away in the VFL, quietly going about developing his frame and endurance, until his body conditioning caught up with his natural talent.
However, what he has shown at the tender age of 19, is that he has very good speed for a big man, and his awareness and footballing smarts around the packs are extremely solid. Not every big man is ready to go like Kruezer. Not to mention Aaron Sandilands played his first AFL game at 21yrs old.

Three things Cotch.
1-You may be right about Vickery but Kruezer had a far greater impact in his first two seasons, so young ruckman can do it.

2- I heard for years that JON was going to prove his critics wrong and sadly he didn't.

3- re your drafting. I saw Conca say the other day he expected to go at 16-18. Most poeple didn't have him top ten, so by any definition he represents a gamble. Can come back to bite you when you swim agasint the tide continually with your predictions(refer Troy Taylor)

Having said all that, I hope it works out for all of them

 

[Toadvine]

Three things Cotch.
1-You may be right about Vickery but Kruezer had a far greater impact in his first two seasons, so young ruckman can do it.

2- I heard for years that JON was going to prove his critics wrong and sadly he didn't.

3- re your drafting. I saw Conca say the other day he expected to go at 16-18. Most poeple didn't have him top ten, so by any definition he represents a gamble. Can come back to bite you when you swim agasint the tide continually with your predictions(refer Troy Taylor)

Having said all that, I hope it works out for all of them

1. I think you should re read what cotch wrote, he says " that most young ruckman drafted at the age of 18yrs aren't anywhere near ready for the rigours of AFL rucking"

He never claimed that Ruckman cannot have an impact in their first 2 seasons, Kruezer and Naitanui are exceptions to the rule of Ruck expectation not THE rule.

2. I think you'll find the majority of us wanted JON gone for years and thought he wouldn't make it. In saying that we all know players deserve our patients as the AFL world is still waiting for Wells to justify his selection at no.2 in 2002 and even then he took a long time to get where he is now.

3. Yes Conca was a shock selection to the media and BigFooty public but it matters not what these people believe as to his "draft value" it what he achieves on field that matters, Other "shock" selections in draft history include Stephen Hill, Pendlebury and Dale Thomas.

Speaking of going against the tide wasn't Atley "expected" to go top 10? What did clubs see in him that scared them off? particularly GC who passed over him many times for other "less rated" players? Perhaps it was his skills by foot not being up to scratch, He even admitted as such in interviews leading up to the draft.

RE Troy Taylor I think you'll find he is still on our list and is progressing well in his preseason after a troublesome first year. He still managed to play some good AFL level football this year regardless which is more that can be said for Aaron Black....Wasn't he supposed to go first round?

 

[GarnerSmash]

1Speaking of going against the tide wasn't Atley "expected" to go top 10? What did clubs see in him that scared them off? particularly GC who passed over him many times for other "less rated" players? Perhaps it was his skills by foot not being up to scratch, He even admitted as such in interviews leading up to the draft.

Yep, kicking is his weakness, but in all honesty it doesn't look all that bad on the track. This plus GC and Melbourne drafting for needs and Adelaide taking local pushed him down quite a bit. PA went for Jacobs based on his kicking and Geelong Smedts for his versatility and the fact he is another local boy.

Re Vickery, knocking a ruckman of his age is desperately short sighted. Give him another two years and he will start winning games for the Tigers. Great size and excellent mobility. Will be a gem. As they say, big guys take time.

 

[Barnzy]

Saw before that Vickery is now listed at 95kg. That would mean he's put on 6kg so far this preseason going off last year's figures. Good sign he's putting on the weight, being physically unable to compete is what is holding him back.

Too early to judge him.

 

[CoggaRules]

Saw before that Vickery is now listed at 95kg. That would mean he's put on 6kg so far this preseason going off last year's figures. Good sign he's putting on the weight, being physically unable to compete is what is holding him back.

Too early to judge him.

all good dude, but we better hope it doesnt mean less speed, since that would mean he would be going backwards while running forwards.

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

1. I think you should re read what cotch wrote, he says " that most young ruckman drafted at the age of 18yrs aren't anywhere near ready for the rigours of AFL rucking"

He never claimed that Ruckman cannot have an impact in their first 2 seasons, Kruezer and Naitanui are exceptions to the rule of Ruck expectation not THE rule.

2. I think you'll find the majority of us wanted JON gone for years and thought he wouldn't make it. In saying that we all know players deserve our patients as the AFL world is still waiting for Wells to justify his selection at no.2 in 2002 and even then he took a long time to get where he is now.

3. Yes Conca was a shock selection to the media and BigFooty public but it matters not what these people believe as to his "draft value" it what he achieves on field that matters, Other "shock" selections in draft history include Stephen Hill, Pendlebury and Dale Thomas.

Speaking of going against the tide wasn't Atley "expected" to go top 10? What did clubs see in him that scared them off? particularly GC who passed over him many times for other "less rated" players? Perhaps it was his skills by foot not being up to scratch, He even admitted as such in interviews leading up to the draft.

RE Troy Taylor I think you'll find he is still on our list and is progressing well in his preseason after a troublesome first year. He still managed to play some good AFL level football this year regardless which is more that can be said for Aaron Black....Wasn't he supposed to go first round?

Well, it was also a shock to Reece who himself expected to go 16-18, so not just the the media and bigfooty public!

Atley partly slipped because conca moved up so dramatically and GC needed talls.

I just reckon you guys are going out on a limb with several players. It is either brave drafting or very risky.

Taylor really never top 10 but always had the baggage. Not saying he won't work out(hope he does! ) but rather it represents risky outside the squre drafting from a club with a very poor drafting record.

 

[MightyTiger]

Why is every other club so interested in our recruiting?????

 

[telsor]

The thing people need to remember with Vickery being taken at 8 is that we really NEEDED a ruckman.

At that stage, we had Simmonds, who was starting to show his age, Patto, who was starting to show his crappiness and a young rookie called Angus.

We absolutely had to get a ruckman who would make it ( no speculative picks and hoping ), so we went for the closest to a 'sure thing' that draft had ( NicNat being recognised as a physical freak, but with question marks in pure football terms ). Of course there are no sure things in drafting, especially with talls, but we didn't have much choice. ( We also took Browne as a speculative pick ).

If we hadn't, then either this year or last we would have had to trade for a ruckman, and with other clubs knowing how desperate we were, we would have been bent over without lube.

 

[Slattery_20]

After him in his draft, only Roughead's really done anything.
Cordy hasn't played, Stanley's done nothing when he has, Clarke's still 10kg away. Trengove's rucked a bit but won't end up there.
The rucks who make an impact in their first 2-3 years are few & far between.

Looks like you're (at least) developing some depth through your rucks, should be 3, maybe 4 match-ready this year: that'll help things.

IMHO the question's why you only took 2 'live' N.D. picks that year (and Hislop, retread)

 

[Toadvine]

Atley partly slipped because conca moved up so dramatically and GC needed talls.

Conca and GC needed talls is the reason?

Your mate B Tron had it right.

Melbourne took Cook (they were quoted on their philosiphy of only going best available with first round selctions last year), Smith, Smedts and Jocobs all were taken before pick #17 because they were rated higher and have better kicking skills than Atley.

IMHO the question's why you only took 2 'live' N.D. picks that year (and Hislop, retread)

I think it comes down to TW and us going into the final year of his contract. He wasn't exactly going to load up on kids and go the youth route. Many commented at the time that two picks was completly inadequate.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Gee this thread has been going on for a while

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: Conca, Atley & so on.
I drew the conclusion that it was all much of a muchness from Gaff down to Atley or even the early 20s.
If Brisbane hadn't got cold feet on Heppell, could've been vastly different.
Conca came in from the teens to top 8, Atley went the other way.

I think Prestia's the under-the-radar one: absolute gem from everything I've seen & heard.

Some other years, you pretty much know who is going to go top 10 and it doesn't change much, if at all.

I think it comes down to TW and us going into the final year of his contract. He wasn't exactly going to load up on kids and go the youth route. Many commented at the time that two picks was completly inadequate.

Yep.
Pressure got to him, he went the easy option; same as Sheedy & Pagan.

TBH: Good on Richmond for going outside the square, or at least a bit risky.
Risk-averse kills you eventually.

Would've been easy to keep ploughing on... pardon the pun... but a bad move.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Conca, Atley & so on.
I drew the conclusion that it was all much of a muchness from Gaff down to Atley or even the early 20s.
If Brisbane hadn't got cold feet on Heppell, could've been vastly different.
Conca came in from the teens to top 8, Atley went the other way.

I think Prestia's the under-the-radar one: absolute gem from everything I've seen & heard.

Some other years, you pretty much know who is going to go top 10 and it doesn't change much, if at all.


Yep.
Pressure got to him, he went the easy option; same as Sheedy & Pagan.

TBH: Good on Richmond for going outside the square, or at least a bit risky.
Risk-averse kills you eventually.

Would've been easy to keep ploughing on... pardon the pun... but a bad move.

We were going for needs, but Conca does look every bit as good as pretty much anyone in the top 10. We have a number of talls on the list, so we've gone for smaller types. We have Reiwoldt, Griffiths, Astbury, Post, Gourdis, Taylor, Vickery and Mcguane who will take the key defensive/forward spots, while Thursfield, Miller, Moore will provide depth

 

[I am a tiger too]

Helbig has impressed at training, mcdonalds also been talked up as an early starter by some fans, Conca looks like he has a footy brain and has great speed and descison making. Batchelor has 'sublime' foot skills.

we searched far and wide but the pickings look good

 

[Madtiger2006]

all good dude, but we better hope it doesnt mean less speed, since that would mean he would be going backwards while running forwards.

i don't see the muscles on the worlds fastest sprinters slowing them down

 

[El Tigre]

i don't see the muscles on the worlds fastest sprinters slowing them down

Yeah but i don't many of the worlds fastest sprinters white either.

But i know what you mean.

 

[Heisenberg_]

i don't see the muscles on the worlds fastest sprinters slowing them down

It's not that simple MT, leave it to the experts to worry about.