IF Stevens comes up , Begley must Go

[arrowman]

...The more I think about it though, point 4 worries me a bit. While it is above board and within the AFL rules to do what you have suggested, it does make me uncomfortable from an ethical point of view. And all for an unknown and unproven talent...

Agree 100%.

There's a little thing called the rookie list where we have plenty of options, no need to start acting unethically just to get a PSD pick.

 

[Mad Dog]

Kane, I agree with points 1 to 3 without qualification. I think there's enough talent to want to have a pick in the PSD. In all likelihood it would be one of Kirkby, Grundy and Pearce.

The more I think about it though, point 4 worries me a bit. While it is above board and within the AFL rules to do what you have suggested, it does make me uncomfortable from an ethical point of view. And all for an unknown and unproven talent.

Let's say we said 'stuff ethics" and did delist a contracted player, who would it be, presuming all players have reported in prime condition and are training as they should. It shouldn't be Bock, Ladhams, Skipworth or Shirley as they will all play games this year, and it is their make or break year.

The only ones it could be IMO are Schuback or Smith. Schuback has under-achieved in his 3 years with us, and is a near certainty to be delisted at the end of 2005 - but this is his make or break year too.

Smith should never have been listed IMO because in his case, there goes a huge dud. But he has been and you just can't list a player and then delist him a few weeks later for no reason.

I can't see who we could delist and feel good about it from an ethical point of view.

Which leads to me to conclude that the only way we should participate in the PSD is if Stevo is adjudged to be too big a risk to carry into 2005 for physical reasons - and there is a good chance of that.

I agreed with pretty much most of what you say here Macca23 - while it's highly desirable to participate in the PSD, I wouldn't want to be jumping at it for the sake of it. I was always comfortable with the fact that it was going to be either #56 in the ND - OR a PSDP. We got our "bargain youngster" in Knights so we wouldn't lose anything by not taking part.
As far as ethics are concerned - I also agree - I wouldn't like to blindside a player in that fashion - but it wouldn't surprise me if 1 or 2 of them had been alerted by the club to the fact that they're hanging by a thread. (see Kingsley last year). Maybe 1 or 2 of them were given some performance goals to achieve a few weeks ago (???).....I'm only speculating but I think a couple of them deserve that kind of ultimatum.
I'm certainly not as confident as you that Bock, Ladhams, and Shirley will play games next year....I have them outside my 22 ATM....with Skippy on the bench. Chewwy is on his last chance...and the whole Smith thing still mystifies me...

I agree that in the absense of some performance based ultimatum, the only way we can or should have a PSDP is if Stevo crashes before the deadline. Each day that passes without incident is a good sign...
Those who diminish his value to our setup have very short memories.

 

[Wood_Duck]

If we had a pick in the PSD and Begley was in the draft I'd take him. My point is that Begley is a known quantity. How many young unknowns do you really want on your list. We are going to have a young team on the park most weeks in 2005. A guy like Begley will be pretty handy.

 

[Damien_R1]

And that is the reason why Begley should be retained.

If he doesn't come up, delist him and go in the PSD. Simple.

Now whether the recruitment team decide he is worth cutting to have a crack at a kid regardless of his fitness, then that is up to them.

As for saying Begley must go, the more I think about it ... it's just not on !

 

[drakeyv2]

If we had a pick in the PSD and Begley was in the draft I'd take him. My point is that Begley is a known quantity. How many young unknowns do you really want on your list. We are going to have a young team on the park most weeks in 2005. A guy like Begley will be pretty handy.

Provided he is on the park. So far during his career, he is more likely to be inside doing rehab in the pool.

I have no problem with a fit Begley on the list (even though I don't think he is much more than a good ordinary player), but the key word is fit!

Over a six year journey he has averaged less than 10 games a season.

 

[drakeyv2]

Begley played 8 games last year, 12 games the year before. 3 games in 99, 3 games in 2000.

Has had injuries to shoulder, hamstrings, thumb and groin. They are just the ones I know of.

I just think he is too injury prone.

Add injured hip too. I forgot about that one.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

And that is the reason why Begley should be retained.

If he doesn't come up, delist him and go in the PSD. Simple.

Now whether the recruitment team decide he is worth cutting to have a crack at a kid regardless of his fitness, then that is up to them.

As for saying Begley must go, the more I think about it ... it's just not on !

 

[jack did it]

in the other thread you say its ok to delist a contacted player, make up your mind. you just agree with each thread

i think the poll speaks for itself, just about everyone feels its ok to delist a contracted player, apart from a righteous few, who want to tell everyone about it

 

[WaynesWorld19]

'Stevo' passes first hurdle
2:08:31 PM Wed 24 November, 2004
matthew robran
afc.com.au



One of the most topical subjects over the off-season has been whether or not Mark Stevens would be running around in a Crows jumper next season. Chronic knee and groin injuries has reduced the influential centre half forward to only 11 out of a possible 46 matches in the past two seasons.

Stevens, who is determined not to let his AFL career slip away, began a rigorous training program while most of his teammates were enjoying their holidays. His daily training schedule, which included straight line running, weights and injury rehabilitation, began the week following the Club Champion presentation (October 5).

Over the course of the past few weeks Mark has gradually been increasing his workload on the track and on Tuesday night (23rd November) at Norwood Oval he took a major step in convincing Senior Coach Neil Craig that he will be a part of Craig’s plans for 2005.

Stevens completed the solid 90-minute session, which included full ground exercises and more importantly, he came through a tough competitive workout unscathed. He looked comfortable during the one on one marking drills and showed no sign of the groin injury that hampered him last year.

“It was nice to get back with the team and train with them. It gets a bit boring when you are training on your own all of the time when you are injured,” he said.

“I felt good out there. There was no discomfort when I had to change direction sharply or when I was kicking so I am happy to got through my first session.

“I still have a bit of work ahead of me but at least this is a step in the right direction,” he said. “Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I can really have a crack at training and prove that I am ready for next year.

 

[Stiffy_18]

'Stevo' passes first hurdle
2:08:31 PM Wed 24 November, 2004
matthew robran
afc.com.au



One of the most topical subjects over the off-season has been whether or not Mark Stevens would be running around in a Crows jumper next season. Chronic knee and groin injuries has reduced the influential centre half forward to only 11 out of a possible 46 matches in the past two seasons.

Stevens, who is determined not to let his AFL career slip away, began a rigorous training program while most of his teammates were enjoying their holidays. His daily training schedule, which included straight line running, weights and injury rehabilitation, began the week following the Club Champion presentation (October 5).

Over the course of the past few weeks Mark has gradually been increasing his workload on the track and on Tuesday night (23rd November) at Norwood Oval he took a major step in convincing Senior Coach Neil Craig that he will be a part of Craig’s plans for 2005.

Stevens completed the solid 90-minute session, which included full ground exercises and more importantly, he came through a tough competitive workout unscathed. He looked comfortable during the one on one marking drills and showed no sign of the groin injury that hampered him last year.

“It was nice to get back with the team and train with them. It gets a bit boring when you are training on your own all of the time when you are injured,” he said.

“I felt good out there. There was no discomfort when I had to change direction sharply or when I was kicking so I am happy to got through my first session.

“I still have a bit of work ahead of me but at least this is a step in the right direction,” he said. “Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I can really have a crack at training and prove that I am ready for next year.

Music to my ears

 

[arrowman]

Oh, I so hope so. The idea of one more season out of Stevo is music to everyone's ears.

(And then, bring on The Gib! )

 

[maccas_no1]

'Stevo' passes first hurdle
2:08:31 PM Wed 24 November, 2004
matthew robran
afc.com.au



One of the most topical subjects over the off-season has been whether or not Mark Stevens would be running around in a Crows jumper next season. Chronic knee and groin injuries has reduced the influential centre half forward to only 11 out of a possible 46 matches in the past two seasons.

Stevens, who is determined not to let his AFL career slip away, began a rigorous training program while most of his teammates were enjoying their holidays. His daily training schedule, which included straight line running, weights and injury rehabilitation, began the week following the Club Champion presentation (October 5).

Over the course of the past few weeks Mark has gradually been increasing his workload on the track and on Tuesday night (23rd November) at Norwood Oval he took a major step in convincing Senior Coach Neil Craig that he will be a part of Craig’s plans for 2005.

Stevens completed the solid 90-minute session, which included full ground exercises and more importantly, he came through a tough competitive workout unscathed. He looked comfortable during the one on one marking drills and showed no sign of the groin injury that hampered him last year.

“It was nice to get back with the team and train with them. It gets a bit boring when you are training on your own all of the time when you are injured,” he said.

“I felt good out there. There was no discomfort when I had to change direction sharply or when I was kicking so I am happy to got through my first session.

“I still have a bit of work ahead of me but at least this is a step in the right direction,” he said. “Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I can really have a crack at training and prove that I am ready for next year.

There is a GOD

 

[mymansyd]

I honestly think that Stevo (if he played all 22 games- or thereabouts), is the 1 player that can make the difference between us making the 8 and not making the 8.

I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

'Stevo' passes first hurdle
2:08:31 PM Wed 24 November, 2004
matthew robran
afc.com.au



One of the most topical subjects over the off-season has been whether or not Mark Stevens would be running around in a Crows jumper next season. Chronic knee and groin injuries has reduced the influential centre half forward to only 11 out of a possible 46 matches in the past two seasons.

Stevens, who is determined not to let his AFL career slip away, began a rigorous training program while most of his teammates were enjoying their holidays. His daily training schedule, which included straight line running, weights and injury rehabilitation, began the week following the Club Champion presentation (October 5).

Over the course of the past few weeks Mark has gradually been increasing his workload on the track and on Tuesday night (23rd November) at Norwood Oval he took a major step in convincing Senior Coach Neil Craig that he will be a part of Craig’s plans for 2005.

Stevens completed the solid 90-minute session, which included full ground exercises and more importantly, he came through a tough competitive workout unscathed. He looked comfortable during the one on one marking drills and showed no sign of the groin injury that hampered him last year.

“It was nice to get back with the team and train with them. It gets a bit boring when you are training on your own all of the time when you are injured,” he said.

“I felt good out there. There was no discomfort when I had to change direction sharply or when I was kicking so I am happy to got through my first session.

“I still have a bit of work ahead of me but at least this is a step in the right direction,” he said. “Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I can really have a crack at training and prove that I am ready for next year.

Mixed feelings on this one now. Whilst I have the utmost respect for Steveo, I will be browned off if he signs a 1 year contract and we get less than 14 games out of him. I know hindsight is a beautiful thing, but so is common sense.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Mixed feelings on this one now. Whilst I have the utmost respect for Steveo, I will be browned off if he signs a 1 year contract and we get less than 14 games out of him. I know hindsight is a beautiful thing, but so is common sense.

SC I think if we get 14 games out of Stevens we would be delighted with that return

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

We have 2 uncontracted players from my understanding - Begley and Stevens. IF we want to participate in the PSD where its likely we will have the first live pick and the chance to grab a bargain youngster, then one of these injury-riddled guys must be delisted. I dont believe the club would realistically contemplate delisting a contracted player (eg Ladhams).

I trust in Stewart/Fantasia abilities to determine the quality of the picks in the PSD - a number were rated by experts prior to the draft as top 30 - Kirby,Grundy and Pearce. If Stewart/Fantasia think we could grab a bragain in the PSD we would be absolutely F'N CRAZY not to go for it. We cant let this opportunity slide with the first live pick. Therefore, if they want a PSD pick then either Stevo or Begley gets the flick.

Stevo is quality and a great mentor for a number of our young developing KP forwards. If he is fit he makes the potential difference to us making the finals or not. However he probably has only one yr left - maximum 2.

Begley is only mid-age. Has been around the traps - now entering his 7th year as a player. Has played less than 60 games due to a number of different injuries. He is injured again now. Has shown he has ability to make best 22 when fit - also apparently displays leadership qualities which arent exactly in abundance at the club. Plays in a position - probably HBF, or BP - where the Crows have more options than probably any other possie on the field.

IMHO if Stevens is fit, Begley must be delisted by the AFC. Stevens has the potential to make a much bigger difference to our chances than Begley in 2005-2006 if he shows he is now over his injuries. His mentoring will also be invaluable to the youngsters as mentioned above. Begley is a handy player (not in top 15 on list now or ever though IMO) that wont make any difference to our possible ladder position in these years.

Its a tough call but one that must be made. Begley OUT and either Pearce or Grundy IN
Do we agree one must go if we can pick up a quality youngster (according to Fantasia/Stewart) that has slipped through the net? If you agree, does the above rationale mean Begley is the man to go?

Bump. Any takers?

 

[crow87]

Bump. Any takers?

Please don't talk about our recruiting

 

[- PC -]

I miss arrowman

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

This made me laugh:

I reckon we let Fantasia/Stewart/Turnbull be the judge of this. They are the experts and are now regarded as possibly the most powerful recruiting team in the league.


Jesus christ, why were't questions asked of our recruiting dept back in 2002 or 2003? Why did we wait for so long.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I miss arrowman

Me too!

He was a GUN!

One of the best, most reasonable posters this board has ever had!

 

[Cap]

what ever happened to arrowman ?