I'm looking forward to...

[tiggsy]

Hey all, first post I've started so I hope nobody finds this offensive . I'm looking forward to reading some incisive posts about where we are at as a club and where we are going over the next few years. I think it's a bit much to expect really balanced stuff after the disappointment of yesterday but reckon there will be some top discussion on here over the next few weeks (as there always is in the off season).

Something a mate said to me as we left AAMI yesterday sort of stuck out for me. Our older players aren't having the impact they once were and will be gone in the next year or so and our young guys are only going to get better. I suspect we'll have a better year next year than this. Players like VB, Knights, Maric, Tippett, D-Mac and Vince will be better for us next year and Porps should be a game breaker if his shoulder is sorted. I am a big fan of Dougie and hope he isn't played out of position so much next year. He has been our 2nd or 3rd highest goal kicker as a natural mid fielder being played as a small forward. How flexible does that make him? Pretty good effort I reckon. Sellar is still only 19 and Walker 18 so I reckon we still have some reasonable chance of finding the key forward we need to straighten us up and stop that horrible stop and wait play we saw yesterday.

Anyone else notice how our midfield didn't want to kick it to Gill? 3 of us at the game noticed it and it's a bit of a concern. I know Gill is a crap kick, but there were a number of times where he was on his own and nobody would kick to him. I saw Gill ignored about half a dozen times and the ball bombed to a contest only to be cleared by Collingwood. Even if Gill only had a 30% conversion rate we would have been much better off if those passes had gone to him. I guess it shows how important it is to have a forward the other players trust to convert.

 

[past-it]

I agree there should be some good discussion.

The matter of not kicking to people is potentially one of the reasons we do not win the big ones. Cameron Mooney was talking last night about the way they specifically pass to players to give them confidence to get the best out of the team. Every player at Geelong looks like a star but are they or is just the way they work as a team. The star team vs the team of stars argument.

We have been good at beating the weaker teams but poor at beating the stronger ones. Playing to win rather than playing not to lose could be a factor (as per Mick Malthouse comments) and playing as a team another.

 

[JunX]

As dissappointing as the loss in the final was, look at what the crows achieved....

-Were expected to finish down the bottom section of the ladder but finished % out top 4
-Found some real decent young talent in the midfield
-Alot of young forwards have shown signs of good things to come

The crows are playing something like 12 guys per game with less than 50 afl games.... When these guys reach 100 games, then the crows will dominate.

I have also noticed the older players and younger players have evened out on the stats sheet. 30+ possessions are just as likely to come from VB, vince, Knights, or porps as they are from goody, edwards, or macca. I think its time for 2 of those 3 to step down.

And the gill subject... I think he is a decent player. He cant kick at goal that well, think hes on about a 50% average. He can only get better, the players need to pass to him more often. Gill on the lead is a better option than sitting the ball on top of 6 players heads to a 50/50 contest. At least with gill marking its a 50/50 shot on goal...

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

As dissappointing as the loss in the final was, look at what the crows achieved....

-Were expected to finish down the bottom section of the ladder but finished % out top 4
-Found some real decent young talent in the midfield
-Alot of young forwards have shown signs of good things to come

The crows are playing something like 12 guys per game with less than 50 afl games.... When these guys reach 100 games, then the crows will dominate.

I have also noticed the older players and younger players have evened out on the stats sheet. 30+ possessions are just as likely to come from VB, vince, Knights, or porps as they are from goody, edwards, or macca. I think its time for 2 of those 3 to step down.

And the gill subject... I think he is a decent player. He cant kick at goal that well, think hes on about a 50% average. He can only get better, the players need to pass to him more often. Gill on the lead is a better option than sitting the ball on top of 6 players heads to a 50/50 contest. At least with gill marking its a 50/50 shot on goal...

Oh joy, hooray, we achieve mediocrity and we get a shit draft pick, awesome.

 

[Cap]

Oh joy, hooray, we achieve mediocrity and we get a shit draft pick, awesome.

because a couple more places in this years draft is going to turn the clubs around

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

because a couple more places in this years draft is going to turn the clubs around

Because finishing 7th overall is going to turn the club around

This "winning culture" is a joke really, win soft games in the Home and Away season but fall in a heap in finals, only win 2 games when we were behind at 3qtr time since 2004. Sounds like a front running culture not a "winning culture".

And for all the talk and all the bs about play consistent finals footy we have seen over the last couple of seasons teams that were behind us, over take us, and even far exceed our efforts, while the Crows have gone nowhere. Honestly even before the Collingwood game there was all this garbage about consistent finals footy and attacking and Goodwin being 100% and the fittest he has been in months and all this crap.

I mean for all the shit Chocko Williams cops for bullshitting, Neil Craig and the Crows seem quite adept at it, I for one am sick of it, and I'm pretty sure alot of other supporters are sick of it too. We're going to do this, we're going to do that, well Neil and the Crows, how about backing it up with action for once in your bloody lives.

 

[Cap]

Because finishing 7th overall is going to turn the club around

what so winning has now become a bad thing? Finals Football is a thing you only do every now and then?

Lets face it the worst we could have come if perhaps 10th if we really tried hard enough to be shit. So pick 6 instead of Pick 9 ?

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

what so winning has now become a bad thing? Finals Football is a thing you only do every now and then?

Lets face it the worst we could have come if perhaps 10th if we really tried hard enough to be shit. So pick 6 instead of Pick 9 ?

The only wins that really matter are finals wins, Home and Away season is just a way to get there.

 

[Cap]

The only wins that really matter are finals wins, Home and Away season is just a way to get there.

yeah but we got there, which is a good thing.

 

[big78sam]

Something a mate said to me as we left AAMI yesterday sort of stuck out for me. Our older players aren't having the impact they once were and will be gone in the next year or so and our young guys are only going to get better.

At the risk of getting slammed by McLeod fans out there, has anyone else noticed age is starting to affect him? In previous years he always seemed to have plenty of time to dispose of the ball and very rarely got caught with it. He seems to be getting caught with it a lot more lately. This could be just the speed of the game increasing.

I always used to say to my missus that if McLeod had the ball it was going to go straight to a teammate. His skills also seem to be letting him down. Don't get me wrong his disposal is still OK (his disposal effeciency this year is about the AFL average, not sure about previous years but I had always thought he was head and shoulders above the average) but there have been a couple of notable examples this year, ie on the weekend he turned the ball over a few times and had 8 clangers. He also had a stinker earlier in the year (I think it was the showdown) when every time he touched it he just gave the ball back.

All that being said he still contributes and I hope he sticks around for another year or 2.

Any comments?

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

Without great risk there is no great reward.

The club needs to take a risk and delist some best 22 players, not just the fringe players who can't make it into the team, we need to see one or two of Edwards, Goodwin and Mcleod delisted this year, we need to see two of Massie, Shirley and Doughty delisted.

Yeah it will leave a big experience hole, but I'd rather see it happen this year, with this draft than next year.

I can live with us stinking with lots of young players in the team, rather than stinking with the usual suspects. In all honesty its going to have to happen, either this year or next year, and it might as well be this year. That said, I recognise that some of these players have had good years and even great years, but the hard decisions NEED to be made if we're ever going to win another premiership, risks need to be taken not just on the field but with the list.

For all the talk of this being a rebuilding year, it really wasn't sure we debuted some players and others took a step up, but when you take into account game time it hasn't been a rebuilding year at all.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I'm looking forward to when instead of just saying "we need to get better at that" we hear how intends to make things better.

BTW Simon Goodwin said on the news we will be better next year - phew, thank god for that, I was starting to worry. The two SA based clubs would put the Iraqi Ministry of Propaganda to shame.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

I'm looking forward to when instead of just saying "we need to get better at that" we hear how intends to make things better.

BTW Simon Goodwin said on the news we will be better next year - phew, thank god for that, I was starting to worry. The two SA based clubs would put the Iraqi Ministry of Propaganda to shame.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to when we actually do play consistent finals football (its been 4 years now), instead of just talking about it.

I'm looking forward to when are forward line works, instead of just talking about it needing to work and improving it (8 years now).

I'm looking forward to the Crows actually being attacking, instead of just saying they're going to be attacking.

I'm looking forward to the Crows actually rebuilding instead of looking for short term win loss H&A "success".

I'm looking forward to the end of all the lessons for the playing group, how many ****ing lessons do they need.

I'm looking forward to the personnel actually changing instead of trying to squeeze blood out of stones.

I'm looking forward to us learning from that, so we can get better at it, in order to play consistent finals football.

I'm looking forward to when our players don't hesitate all the time.

I'm looking forward to watching entertaining football from the Crows for the first time in 4 years.

I'm looking forward to the Crows actually doing one thing they say they're going to do for once.

Adelaide Football club est 1990 "All talk, no action"

Eject the boys club and cure the obvious case of the "gonnas" I'm gonna do this, we're gonna do that, gonna gonna gonna. AND ACTUALLY ****ING DO SOMETHING, this is what shits me off about the Crows, too conservative to actually do what they say they're going to do. It shows from the very top level administration, all the way through the player group.

 

[*PAF]

what so winning has now become a bad thing? ...

There is winning games, or even losing games, where you think the team is just short of being world beaters and then there is winning games where you think this is as good as we can get without some sort of change.
One is good, the other is meh.

Now the question is where do you think you lot are at?
Winning and losing per se mean Jack as the only thing that counts is winning premierships, thus a team should either be gunning for one now or getting ready for one in the not too distant future.

 

[dplggr47]

D-Mac and Tippett played out their first season...so i'm really looking forward to seeing them develop some more... there will also be alot of new young faces as well...Danger and Walker will both get games... Petrenko and Otten will also be pushing for regular spots, while guys like Jacky, Kite, Sellar, Cook, our 1st and 2nd picks (assuming we don't trade them) etc may also be in the mix.

hopefully vB can develop into a more consistent superstar and thus take over the reigns as captain, because i expect 2 or 3 of our superstars to retire at the end of next year. Goodwin and Edwards will most likely retire next year...and McLeod might, as well.

it's only been 2 days since the crows were eliminated, but it feels like a long time already... so moving on.

 

[footy4ever]

I'm looking forward to seeing what the young players do next year.

I'm looking forward to the crows spending a sh!tload of money on a monster forward (not an end of career Carey)...and on some mongrel clever ar$<#0!e that rubs opposition supporters up the wrong way.

Add Birdman, Porps and voila! A side to legitimately challenge....that is, when all the Geelong players die.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I'm also looking forward to when someone is held accountable for our woeful use of 1st round draft picks, or at the very least, the Boys Club acknowledge that we have a problem in this area.

I don't see how we can improve something until we actually acknowledge there is a problem.

 

[Cap]

I'm also looking forward to when someone is held accountable for our woeful use of 1st round draft picks, or at the very least, the Boys Club acknowledge that we have a problem in this area.

I don't see how we can improve something until we actually acknowledge there is a problem.

Well I guess the moving on of Fantasia was and event.

Dangerfield looks like a step in the right direction, this year is even more important.

Whilst I am skeptical of Sellars ability to become anything, given that he has one more year I guess we have to give him that.

 

[Geoffa32]

Round 1 2009.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Not having that nagging thought in the back of my mind that it could all unravel come finals time. That would allow me to enjoy the minor round wins more.

 

[Caramelas13]

I'm looking forward to the day John Reid, Steven Trigg and Neil Craig are no longer part of the AFC. Until this day we will not win a premiership. We will continue to be a proud club, content on making the finals year after year but not learning anything from it. I'm sick of the same old phrases year after year. Anyone who thinks Saturdays loss was acceptable has got rocks in their head. Anyone that thinks we over achieved and we should be happy as we didn't expect to be playing finals better change their attitude. We should have made a Prelim final this year. I don't care what anyone says. That Collingwood team was near to that being a NAB cup team. Cornsey was right. We SHOULD have won that game by 8 goals, but our inability to play 4 qtrs of football showed again. We beat Collingwood and we then face St Kilda. Another winable game. We can't keep protecting and accepting this type of effort & result. I'm prepared to struggle for the next 2 years or so in order to get our list right for a premiership tilt. I'm sick of NC still believing prior to the finals that the premiership window was still open. ITS NOT FFS. IT CLOSED AFTER 2006. When are we ever gonna learn? I am more angry than disappointed.

 

[Cap]

I'm looking forward to the day John Reid, Steven Trigg and Neil Craig are no longer part of the AFC. Until this day we will not win a premiership. We will continue to be a proud club, content on making the finals year after year but not learning anything from it. I'm sick of the same old phrases year after year. Anyone who thinks Saturdays loss was acceptable has got rocks in their head. Anyone that thinks we over achieved and we should be happy as we didn't expect to be playing finals better change their attitude. We should have made a Prelim final this year. I don't care what anyone says. That Collingwood team was near to that being a NAB cup team. Cornsey was right. We SHOULD have won that game by 8 goals, but our inability to play 4 qtrs of football showed again. We beat Collingwood and we then face St Kilda. Another winable game. We can't keep protecting and accepting this type of effort & result. I'm prepared to struggle for the next 2 years or so in order to get our list right for a premiership tilt. I'm sick of NC still believing prior to the finals that the premiership window was still open. ITS NOT FFS. IT CLOSED AFTER 2006. When are we ever gonna learn? I am more angry than disappointed.

you show me where the AFC has said that the result on Saturday was acceptable? So if we didn't ovber achieve did we under achieve or just achieve?

 

[Crow-mo]

you show me where the AFC has said that the result on Saturday was acceptable? So if we didn't ovber achieve did we under achieve or just achieve?

of course they won't say it's acceptable, but their actions will convey that meaning if they once again do nothing.

 

[Cap]

of course they won't say it's acceptable, but their actions will convey that meaning if they once again do nothing.

what actions will you be looking for apart from Delistings?

don't we have to wait until next year in september?

 

[johnnypanther]

I'm looking forward to the day John Reid, Steven Trigg and Neil Craig are no longer part of the AFC. Until this day we will not win a premiership. We will continue to be a proud club, content on making the finals year after year but not learning anything from it. I'm sick of the same old phrases year after year. Anyone who thinks Saturdays loss was acceptable has got rocks in their head. Anyone that thinks we over achieved and we should be happy as we didn't expect to be playing finals better change their attitude. We should have made a Prelim final this year. I don't care what anyone says. That Collingwood team was near to that being a NAB cup team. Cornsey was right. We SHOULD have won that game by 8 goals, but our inability to play 4 qtrs of football showed again. We beat Collingwood and we then face St Kilda. Another winable game. We can't keep protecting and accepting this type of effort & result. I'm prepared to struggle for the next 2 years or so in order to get our list right for a premiership tilt. I'm sick of NC still believing prior to the finals that the premiership window was still open. ITS NOT FFS. IT CLOSED AFTER 2006. When are we ever gonna learn? I am more angry than disappointed.

re the highlighted phrases - If we should have made the Prelim final this year, then surely our premiership window was still open.

IMO Trigg, Reid, Craig etc etc form the most professional management of any AFL club. I am sure that those 3 at least would see Saturday's loss as completely unacceptable in the circumstances and i think they would too agree that Cornes was right.

What they do about it to both address our deficiencies and get our list right for a genuine tilt at a premiership will be interesting - there are no elite big forwards on the market so i think we must continue to develop Tippett, Walker, Sellar, Hentschell. IMO it would be a waste trading for a 2nd string forward such as Boyle, etc etc and that would just be a repeat of our trading "mistakes" of the past.
The side lacks genuine pace and a genuine defensive crumber - this i think can be addressed in the trade period with our 2nd round pick - i would be going hard at Varcoe and making him an offer that HE wont refuse.
From my own personal perspective which most dont agree with anyway, i want to see if they have the balls and actually be aggressive in pruning our list and shaping it into a premiership contender - IMO Biglands, Bassett, McGregor, Jericho, plus 3 out of Shirley, Massie, Campbell, Gallman, Goodwin, Edwards to go. Shirley, Massie, Campbell/Gallman are my choices. That makes 7 out, with Petrenko upgraded giving us 6 draft picks 10,28,44,60,76,92. I'm not sure of the value of 92 but there may be someone in the PSD worthwhile or alternatively, 76 & 92 could be used on bottom age project players who cannot be rookie listed (a la Aaron Kite last year).
Of course, we really cant determine these until trade week is over because that could change the delistings needed considerably.
eg If we pick up Varcoe for our 2nd rounder and not manage to trade anyone away then we would have picks 10,44,60,76,92,108 - in which case it may not be worthwhile delisting the 7th player as pick 108 may be "useless". Although my preference would be to delist regardless and then if it was considered no viable draftee was there at pick 108 or PSD then we could just redraft a delistee.